Natalee Case Discussion #696 11/27 - 11/29/2007

[Puzzler]

K2 lawyers and JOE T are calling the new prosecutor and the JUDGES liars

when they say there in no new evidence

evidently, the judges see things differently


hmmmm... that will go over like a lead balloon 

Yep...like a lead balloon...

Then last night Joe T said that he wants to have a meeting with Mos about Joran's innocence. 

Wonder how Mos would feel about that if he hears that Joe's calling him and the judges lairs??   

[Dayhiker]

Hello to all-

Any thoughts on David Kock choosing to be Satish's defender, while leaving Deepak in the hands of a lesser experienced Figaroa?  Could this mean that Satish is the brother with the greatest need of protection, because his involvement is more significant than Deepak's?

Also, does anyone know if Antonio Carlo is still retained as Joran's lawyer?  I ask, because I wonder if his admission to PrdVries about the secret meeting with the previous Public Defender may have affected his relationship with the VdS's.

Stom, good to see you again. Carlo hasn't surfaced since the new arrests but he and Paulus are still listed as business partners. The only attorneys we have heard from for Joran are his lawyer from holland and Greaseball. It makes sense there would be a clear conflict of interest with Paulus' business partner representing his son because of access to privileged court information but such matters have never seemed to bother them before. Maybe it does now with what appear to be more honest people in charge.

The only explanation I have heard for Kock choosing Satish is that he was his lawyer first and not Deepak.

[Dayhiker]

K2 lawyers and JOE T are calling the new prosecutor and the JUDGES liars

when they say there in no new evidence

evidently, the judges see things differently


hmmmm... that will go over like a lead balloon 

Yep...like a lead balloon...

Then last night Joe T said that he wants to have a meeting with Mos about Joran's innocence. 

Wonder how Mos would feel about that if he hears that Joe's calling him and the judges lairs??   

From our lessons in Dutch Law  we learned that it is forbidden that a defense lawyer and Prosecutor discuss a court case. Peter Devries, one of the few people I would trust to get it right, brought this up during his show when he broke the Carlo/Janssen meeting story.

But if I were Mos, I just wouldn't meet with him because he's a jackass.

[Stom]

In Amigoe...

"The lawyers of Satish Kalpoe (21), David Kock and Ronny Wix, contest that there is new evidence that justifies the arrest of the suspects. They ascertain that close to 95% is old and that all three suspects will be freed and liberated from any blame."

[Whodunit?]

Hi, ALL!

Just popping and wondering, is last night the first night Greta has talked about the Kalpoes' car-washing?

Curious,
Who

[NYC_lover]

Klaasend - I did see your translating.
Here there are few important words were not translated:
Verdachte - suspect
Zoons - sons
Zedendelict - sexual offence
Of the Ditch - van der Sloot

[klaasend]

Klaasend - I did see your translating.
Here there are few important words were not translated:
Verdachte - suspect
Zoons - sons
Zedendelict - sexual offence
Of the Ditch - van der Sloot

NYC - When I say it's a rough translation I mean really rough.  All I did was run it through babelfish.  I didn't check for untranslated words one by one.

Thanks for the help with some of those words!

[Anna]

So get all caught up on all the work you can today, lol!

Was Greta implying last night that the person who saw the Kalpoes washing their car in the middle of the night never went to the police with that information?

I was pretty sure we had it on good authority that they did.  Perhaps this is yet more vanishing information presented to ALE?

I wonder if the judge has this little tidbit.

Knowing ALE, they knew about but never interviewed the guy.

Yes, they may have told him to go home and hush!  There is no telling how many tips were given originally that ALE refused to follow up on out of laziness, corruption and being too busy posing for the American press.

They have always seemed to think that media presence gives them some sort of free pass from doing their jobs.  How do they think the rest of the world functions?

.

[chelebele]

Klaasend - I did see your translating.
Here there are few important words were not translated:
Verdachte - suspect
Zoons - sons
Zedendelict - sexual offence
Of the Ditch - van der Sloot

I love when the translator says "Joran of the ditch" Seems fitting, makes me smile.

[Windsor]

Hi everyone; been a long time since I've posted, but have read every day 

[klaasend]

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=3921099&page=1


More than two years after Natalee Holloway was last seen leaving the Aruban nightclub Carlos 'N Charlie's, the island hotspot is still thriving. (Chris Francescani/ ABC)

Hard Partying in Paradise
Popular Nightspot Thrives, Two Years After Natalee Holloway's Disappearance
By CHRIS FRANCESCANI and BRIAN COHEN
Nov. 28, 2007—


It's not the kind of place you'd want your teenage daughter to party at.

Two-and-a-half years after Natalee Holloway was last seen leaving the Aruban restaurant and nightclub Carlos 'N Charlie's, the island hot spot is still thriving, drawing capacity crowds of young people into a throbbing Bacchanalia of drinking, dancing and, in some cases, seemingly contagious sexual promiscuity.

"This place is on fire,'' Kevin Nisvet, 21, told an ABC News producer who visited the club last weekend at about 1 a.m., the approximate time Holloway was seen leaving the club with Joran van der Sloot and Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, the three men rearrested last week for suspicion of involvement in her May 2005 disappearance.

Van der Sloot has told ABC News that, after leaving the club, he, Holloway and the Kalpoe brothers went first to a lighthouse and later, to a secluded beach, where, he said, the pair became amorous. Van der Sloot claims he left a visibly intoxicated Holloway on that beach and went home. She hasn't been seen since, despite a massive search of the island and its surrounding waters.

On a recent night outside the club, a short line of young, animated patrons waited to pass through a metal detector and into the thick of a throng of young men and women, dancing enthusiastically to party rock classics  like AC/DC's "Back in Black,'' George Thorogood's thundering blues classic "Bad to the Bone '' and the 1982 Survivor hit, "Eye of the Tiger,'' the theme to the movie "Rocky III"  blasting from giant speakers at ear-splitting volume.

Nisvet, an island native, said that on weekends the club is "always full. ... It has girls, it has great music. It's the only club that has so much drinking and dancing."

Not surprisingly, the free-for-all atmosphere of hard drinking and pump-you-up rock anthems seemed to breed a remarkable degree of sexual abandon in some of the young customers.

Several young female revelers told ABC News that they are frequently groped by young men on the dance floor at the club.

Jessica Maren, 18, said she didn't like being groped but that she felt it was simply part of the enticing, sexually charged club experience.

"It's OK,'' she said with a shrug when she was asked if she resented the unsolicited hands on her body. "It doesn't really bother me."

Inside, in a corner of the bar beside a long wooden stage, two attractive blond women in tiny, skintight shorts, drew considerable attention as they gyrated to the music, arms around one another's necks, French kissing and swaying back and forth with the kind of abandon that the late hour, pulsating music and sexual energy can command. Close by, several men surrounded them, wide-eyed and clearly excited.

Up on stage, four "volunteers"  each representing a different country, including Venezuela, the Netherlands and the United States  held the spotlight as they competed with one another to see who could consume a 28-ounce "yard" glass of beer the fastest. A master of ceremonies from the club, wielding a microphone, urged the crowd to cheer on the respective contestants.

As the crowd on the dance floor chanted, "Chug, chug, chug!" the Venezuelan man, beer dripping down his cheeks, stepped forward, triumphant and a little blue in the face, empty yard glass raised in the air, wearing the kind of goofy grin unique to intoxicated young men of his age.

The young American man, who said he was from Massachusetts, appeared to be close to vomiting when he finished his drink moments later but valiantly held his stomach and descended the stage into an enthusiastic crowd of hometown buddies.

While bouncers at the door outside the club seemed to vigilantly check IDs, two very young-looking women, who appeared to be no older that 14, were observed dancing provocatively on a wooden pedestal next to a giant pole adorned with old, vanity license plates with amusing slogans. The club allows 18-year-olds in, and younger people, if they are accompanied by their parents.

Around 2 a.m., a fistfight broke out toward the back of the club, drawing many of the revelers' attention. Bouncers and club security rushed to the back to break up the melee. As they did, an older woman approached the two youngish girls dancing near the pole, and grabbed them by the hand, urgently leading them out the door.

An ABC News producer followed the trio out the door and down the street, catching up with the youngest-looking woman as she was being led into a white van. She declined to give her name, but when asked her age, she smiled and seemed to wink and said, "18." Then she laughed out loud and entered the van.

ABC News returned to Carlos 'N Charlie's the following day to seek an interview with the club manager, who employees there identified as Alberto Levy. A waiter asked about the nature of the inquiry, and upon learning that the network was seeking an interview, spoke to a man in a back office and returned to say that Levy was off the island, and that it was unclear when he would return. Levy didn't respond to messages left for him at the bar.

Carlos 'N Charlie's is a chain of more than 100 restaurant and clubs in Mexico, Spain, Brazil and the United States, according to the company's Web site. The first one was founded in Mexico City in 1968 by Carlos Anderson, an ambitious restaurateur who emphasized customer service and a friendly staff. Over time, with the help of friends Charlie Skipsey, Chuy Juearez and other friends, the group expanded internationally.

The restaurant/club has never been accused or implicated in any way with Holloway's disappearance. Local Arubans and regularly-visiting tourists call it the most exciting, inviting night spot on Aruba.

[Windsor]

I have a question -- I'd like to go back to the other night when Greta interviewed Vinda -- so, who was Karin J's boss?  who is the boss now?

[klaasend]

Welcome back Windsor and Whodonit!

[Stom]

I have a question -- I'd like to go back to the other night when Greta interviewed Vinda -- so, who was Karin J's boss?  who is the boss now?

The boss used to be Teresa Croes Fernandes-Pedra, former Attorney General.  I don't know who the Attorney General is now, but it would be good to know.

[klaasend]

I have a question -- I'd like to go back to the other night when Greta interviewed Vinda -- so, who was Karin J's boss?  who is the boss now?

I'll have to dig up the old info but I believe the Attorney General?

Now, I believe MOS reports to Nico Jorg.  Nico Jorg is the one who ripped PVDS a new one 

[MsVada]

C& C's is thriving huh?

 Well then they need to put some money into fixing that dilapitated rundown dump.  I wouldn't go there even if it was the only place to get a drink on the island

[NYC_lover]

Klaasend - I did see your translating.
Here there are few important words were not translated:
Verdachte - suspect
Zoons - sons
Zedendelict - sexual offence
Of the Ditch - van der Sloot

NYC - When I say it's a rough translation I mean really rough.  All I did was run it through babelfish.  I didn't check for untranslated words one by one.

Thanks for the help with some of those words!

Klaasend - You are welcome! Ok, I understand. Well I just want, that people can all understand what they sees.  And somewords don't can translated by babelfish.

[the big hammer]

Enforce the Law

Of Carlos & Charlie's: "The restaurant/club has never been accused or implicated in any way with Holloway's disappearance..."

And that's a problem.

As a 17 yr old minor on May 29, 2005, Joran van der Sloot was purchasing drinks that were illegally dispensed.  It is the job of the establishment to ensure they are pouring drinks to people who are of legal age to consume alcohol.

A little aggressive enforcement of underage drinking laws on Aruba may have helped to prevent what happened to Natalee.

The place should be shut down for week until they can demonstrate compliance.

BTW, this might be one of the worst public relations news articles of all time -- it literally invites law enforcement scrutiny.  Abysmal judgement.

.
.

[NYC_lover]

Klaasend - I did see your translating.
Here there are few important words were not translated:
Verdachte - suspect
Zoons - sons
Zedendelict - sexual offence
Of the Ditch - van der Sloot

I love when the translator says "Joran of the ditch" Seems fitting, makes me smile.

Hi chelebele - welcome at this forum. Ok I understand about of the Ditch.  

[snoopy]

Good to see you Who, Windsor, and Stom.