Natalee Case Discussion #702 12/7 - 12/8/2007

[memphis]

I'm curious about your opinions:

When Greta and Beth recently went back to Aruba, Greta was asking Beth about her thoughts of Paulus' involvement. Beth said she was sure he knew exactly what happened that night. Greta followed with, "And Anita?". Beth almost dismissively said, "Oh, she doesn't have a clue..."

Do any of you think that Anita really doesn't believe Joran did anything other than leave Natalee at the beack that night?

IMO - Paulus and Anita know that Natalee died that night, they just don't know the truth why.

Klaas, you don't think Paulus knows? You think that Joran didn't tell him the truth?

[Anna]

I'm curious about your opinions:

When Greta and Beth recently went back to Aruba, Greta was asking Beth about her thoughts of Paulus' involvement. Beth said she was sure he knew exactly what happened that night. Greta followed with, "And Anita?". Beth almost dismissively said, "Oh, she doesn't have a clue..."

Do any of you think that Anita really doesn't believe Joran did anything other than leave Natalee at the beack that night?

No, remember her saying whatever off camera that made Greta want to crawl under the table?  Recently they showed a clip of her trashing Beth saying Beth said her daughter was a virgin and Anita said she responded "And?????" as though that meant nothing and to her it apparently didn't.

If Joran would tell his mother graphic sexual things, he told her everything and she helped him with the cover up.

She bosses Paulus around something awful, too, remember in NYC.

MO

.

[crazybabyborg]

According to Hans Mos ... the admissibility of the "new" evidence was dependent on some type of admission from Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Without admissions the "new" evidence was all for naught.

Would logic not dictate that it was a foregone conclusion that Joran, Deepak and Satish's attorneys were gong to advise them not to answer any questions.

Why would Hans Mos expect Joran, Deepak and Satish to admit to anything?

This is crazy!!!!

Janet

++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315942,00.html

Suspect Van Der Sloot Freed in Natalee Holloway Case
Friday, December 07, 2007

Van der Sloot was arrested in the Netherlands, where he has been attending college, and flown back to this Dutch Caribbean island on the basis of what prosecutors described as "new incriminating evidence."

]Aruba's chief prosecutor Hans Mos said the young men did not divulge any new information under interrogation, leaving the investigation in the same place it was before the arrests.

"We thought there was a lot of material that urged them to tell us what happened, but they kept their mouths shut," Mos told the AP.
[/color]

"You never know when one of them will open up when confronted ... They were apparently very well instructed by their lawyers not to say anything to us."

+++++++++

MOS - had his hands cut off

I absolutely agree. If Mos believed that separating them and confronting them with old, or in my opinion new, evidence would be enough to force an admission to anything, he was predictably mistaken. Satish would have been the weakest link, but sheer fear would have locked his jaw.

These guys were far more nervous initially and the worst problems they had were around what they did say. I'm sure the fear she would be discovered was contributing to their anxiety. At this point, they've had all kinds of time to reflect on how they dodged a bullet, and I don't think even a seasoned, skilled interrogator could cause any one of them to come clean in that setting. We haven't discussed it to any length, but even if she's found, the ability to tie injuries to them specifically has probably vanished with the soft tissue.

The smoking gun is no longer with "jailhouse fear" unless they could be made to really BELIEVE they had no chance of walking out in a matter of days.

I think the smoking gun has to come from someone who knows the events without the last name of Sloot or Kalpoe. AND I think that is an intiguing piece of this because there is a good bit of money that is out there for the information that has proven itself not inticing enough. WHY?

Self involvement in the crime would be the obvious reason, but I would think that someone has dropped hints to someone else who has dropped hints to someone, etc.

[Observer]

Do any of you think that Anita really doesn't believe Joran did anything other than leave Natalee at the beack that night?

Not me. I am quite sure she found out very early in June what happened. They may have lied to her about a few details,but she knows that both her husband and son are the reason why Natalee was never seen again.

[memphis]

I'm curious about your opinions:

When Greta and Beth recently went back to Aruba, Greta was asking Beth about her thoughts of Paulus' involvement. Beth said she was sure he knew exactly what happened that night. Greta followed with, "And Anita?". Beth almost dismissively said, "Oh, she doesn't have a clue..."

Do any of you think that Anita really doesn't believe Joran did anything other than leave Natalee at the beack that night?

No, remember her saying whatever off camera that made Greta want to crawl under the table?  Recently they showed a clip of her trashing Beth saying Beth said her daughter was a virgin and Anita said she responded "And?????" as though that meant nothing and to her it apparently didn't.

If Joran would tell his mother graphic sexual things, he told her everything and she helped him with the cover up.

She bosses Paulus around something awful, too, remember in NYC.

MO

.

Anna, I agree. I've never thought of Anita as soft and cuddly. I've also always thought that Joran told Paul everything and that's why Paul had to go to such extremes to disappear Natalee.

[Kat_Gram]

JQK is a smart lawyer and it was good to hear him being honest. Lots of times, his words were guarded as to not offend the people in Aruba who he wanted / needed some co operation from. JQK has no standing in Aruba and had to feast on crumbs from them. He has no " trump" card and if the Dutch do not prosecute, he can't make them. I also think that Beth ( bad cop ), Dave ( good cop ) have reached the end of what they can do as far as legal avenues. But, I am hoping Jug ( loose cannon cop ) tells us what he used to allude to about what was going on down there. 
But most of all,  I hope the water search is successful.

[robots]

ANITA knows

ANITA helped the SPORTER come up with more stories

she is EVIL

[Anna]

Yep, *******, that's the photo of guilt IMO.


Robots,
You are saying that they pulled some legal technicality on Mos?  Maybe that DEA Agent since Mos is blaming him for the derailment in part?  Maybe they are trying to say anything said in his presence is inadmissible or anything that happened around him because he is a foreign LE?  But he is supposed to be RETIRED.

He didn't arrest anybody or search anything or technically DO anything to the Sloots.

But I suppose they could be using other loop holes as you say, anything to eliminate Mos' evidence bit by bit, page by page.  Is that how you see it?  THey picked it apart and eliminated it in some technical manner?

So do you think Mos has given up?  Will he bring charges and go to trial or just close it?

And I agree, I would not have played by the rules as Beth and Dave have.  I would already have gone as dirty as I could.  But they are nicer people than I am.

.

[Magnolia]

Well, I respect those that honestly think it is JQK's fault that Aruba hasn't prosecuted the bastards -- but I think you are TERRIBLY misguided. JQK tried to diplomatically deal with the Dutch. (They were the ONLY hope.) The Dutch LIED. JQK finally took off the gloves on Greta monday night because he KNOWS there will never be justice from Aruba. You can dream all you want that Anita will do the right thing -- hell, she is up to her ears in the cover-up herself.
Give it up, people. Justice for Natalee will only be achieved by finding her and bringing her directly home. It will never be found in an Aruban court.
A courtroom is not the only place to avenge Natalee.  Let's focus our talents/hearts/resources to OTHER means that WE can control. Let's DEMAND OUR Government take diplomatic action against the Dutch/Aruba. Let's step up our voices to warn Americans from traveling to Aruba.  Let's make them pay!

Gosh Wreck! Once again, I'm totally with you!

Wreck, I am not blaming JQK at all.  I am just disappointed that
he would fold so completely.
Possibably he was creating a ruse....
Possibably he and Mos come to some sort of agreement.
I hope that is the case.
I, personally, would have loved to see him bluster more.

[robots]

Yep, *******, that's the photo of guilt IMO.


Robots,
You are saying that they pulled some legal technicality on Mos?  Maybe that DEA Agent since Mos is blaming him for the derailment in part?  Maybe they are trying to say anything said in his presence is inadmissible or anything that happened around him because he is a foreign LE?  But he is supposed to be RETIRED.

He didn't arrest anybody or search anything or technically DO anything to the Sloots.

But I suppose they could be using other loop holes as you say, anything to eliminate Mos' evidence bit by bit, page by page.  Is that how you see it?  THey picked it apart and eliminated it in some technical manner?

So do you think Mos has given up?  Will he bring charges and go to trial or just close it?

And I agree, I would not have played by the rules as Beth and Dave have.  I would already have gone as dirty as I could.  But they are nicer people than I am.

.

yes, that is what im saying because the alternative is that MOS is a complete IDIOT
which i dont think he is.. i mean he could be BUT i dont think so
the word you used is the one i was trying to think of  LOOPHOLE

this stuff happens here also.. but i think that is what has happened

its the only think i can make sense of

Dave and Beth they are much nicer than me,

i would become the MAN on FIRE...

and im not joking about that
 

[robots]

OPERATION BOYCOTT is going into effect

i just registered a bunch of domains.......

OPERATION BOYCOTT - DAY 1 

[Kat_Gram]

Thats Bullshit.. That judge should have thrown that case OUT
specially if there stupid lawyers didnt show
this is all such a crock

Dear Judge in Doktor Phil case;
Satish and Deeapk were absent from court today and so were their lawyers as they were in jail. Again. But the Mos policeman, they lie.
Mamma.
OK ?

[San]

I'm watching Greta and Mark Fuhrman and they were talking about Drew Peterson and how they seem to be planting ideas of where the body is.  Fuhrman said they are pointing in one direction when he believes stacy is buried in the opposite direction.

Very early on in the NH case Mark Fuhrman said Natalee was buried in the ground.  I always felt she was in the ground also.  But we have the police saying they believe she is in the ocean.  Sometimes I wonder.

Just like they were always pointing people away from the Sloot dump when in fact she was in that house.

[robots]

qty 12 so far as well as the half dozen i had... errr  ahhh i mean half dozen my "FRIEND" had

[robots]

I'm watching Greta and Mark Fuhrman and they were talking about Drew Peterson and how they seem to be planting ideas of where the body is.  Fuhrman said they are pointing in one direction when he believes stacy is buried in the opposite direction.

Very early on in the NH case Mark Fuhrman said Natalee was buried in the ground.  I always felt she was in the ground also.  But we have the police saying they believe she is in the ocean.  Sometimes I wonder.

Just like they were always pointing people away from the Sloot dump when in fact she was in that house.

im with you... in the ground

i have always said the ground

the garbage landfill

[San]

Do any of you think that Anita really doesn't believe Joran did anything other than leave Natalee at the beack that night?

Not me. I am quite sure she found out very early in June what happened. They may have lied to her about a few details,but she knows that both her husband and son are the reason why Natalee was never seen again.

When you have a son with a history of violence you know exactly how she died.  You don't change the furniture in your home right smack dab in the middle of the most crucial time in the investigation just for the heck of it.  Anita has seen the evidence.

[San]

Ted Williams said this was a cruel hoax.

Michael Cardoze said the judge is a dope.

Dr. Baden said Mos admitted that she was dead.  He said he though that they would say somebody saw the body and they didn't.

[Observer]

Interesting that the Kalpoe Lawyers were a no show today..I wonder why?

[Magnolia]

I certainly think Anita knew the details when Greta and
Beth came knocking at the gate.
Anita was so chatty.
I think that is why Paulus was so sweaty.
He was afraid that Anita would say too much.

[crazybabyborg]

Thanks for weighing in guys. I will too now. 

I don't think Anita had a clue when Beth had that conversation with Paulus and herself where Paulus was sweating. I think the details Joran shared with her were part of his skill at lying. You guys are right, IMO, why would you be forthright about such details and withold anything? Joran used the same tactic with Greta: "I shouldn't have left her on the beach, yeah, Satish said "F-- her", and we just drove off."  Joran purposefully chooses to appear candid and frank to lend legitimacy to his version of the truth and be convincing that he's not lying.

I think Anita knows, at this point, the need to alter things to put Joran in the best light and she's perfectly willing to do it. I think she probably has. If, as Taco said, they could show that Joran took an exam the next day and made an A on it, I'm sure Anita has managed to arrange that evidence. I'm not totally convinced that she's acting out of knowledge of his guilt, however. She may think the Kalpoes are guilty and she's protecting Joran from the association with them, or any other number of "grey areas" for Joran, but I'm not totally convinced she even knows Joran was present when she died or knows Joran has knowledge of her death.

Don't flame me, I'm not in concrete on this. It's just a gut instinct when I hear and see her speak.