Lively Case Discussion #526 9/23 - 9/26/2006

[LilPuma]

Satish's statement makes sense in that they stayed in the car, so if the fishermen couldn't see the car, they couldn't see 2K.  I still don't believe they went to the beach.  Beth is convinced they went to Joran's and this still makes the most sense to me and also explains Freddy being involved and the "Freddy's got to tell the truth" statement.  Also a reference to the camera being returned to Freddy.  Not only did the fishermen not see Joran and Natalee, but Joran says there were other people there -- given the concert that night, there probably were more people than usual on the beach.  I still find it hard to believe that no one remembers seeing this tall guy with this short pretty blonde, and if the short pretty blonde was there all by herself around 3:00 a.m., someone would have noticed her.  

Question for all monkeys:  If the Pimps routinely picked up tourists for sex, got them drunk or drugged them, what did they do with these tourists when they were done with them?  Hotel workers know they cruise the tourist areas, do they see these guys helping women back to their rooms, drunk, half conscious?  Are all of these tourists other than Natalee willing participants, not drugged or too drunk to walk back to their rooms?  I keep thinking of the woman on Tyra's show (same show with Beth) who had been given a date rape drug and said she woke up in the parking lot where their car had been parked. Didn't remember how she got there.  If Natalee was falling asleep and waking up, what were they going to do with this semi-conscious woman before something bad happened?  Carry her to her room?  Leave her somewhere?

[oldfart]

Good Day Monkeys

Congrats to Klaasend on getting another Coumpter Class to teach .

Another statement... makes me want to sratch my head.

Where on the beach  or the water were the Fishermen(within a few hundred feet?)  Do we know?

Just Wondering

Not very far Oldfart.  On this map the Fisherman's huts are where the alleged pick up point is.  Even if the fishermen couldn't see the vehicle they should have heard that loud muffler.

Agree they should have heard a loud muffler  but do we know where on the beach the fishermen were?   Between drop off and pic up points or more in front to the hotel  or farther North?

And for some reason I always thought that were fishing from boats  

[LilPuma]

BTW - I dont buy the argument that the Polis made the unsigned statements up as an interrogation tool.  If that were the case, they would actually put something with some substance in them.  Why would the Polis make up some lame statements like these that would not even bother a suspect.  If they were going to make something up, it would be something that would actually put some pressure on these punks.

I agree, but that would make too much sense for someone who loves Aruban scum.

[blah]

wasnt there also supposedly some hotel workers that were outside the hotel that night who never saw the suspects there that night?

[Shizaru]

Pathetic job dodging the question here Satish:

"You advise me that on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the nighttime hours threee fishermen were on the beach north of the Marriot hotel and that they at no time had seen our car in the vicinity of the hotel.  On your question how I can explain that, I will tell you the following:

When Deepaks car was parked at the north side of the marriot hotel, Joran and the missing girl immediately stepped out and walked in the direction of the beach.  The 3 men could not have seen Deepak and I because we did not walk to the beach."


Satish - your answer does not go with the question, it makes no sense.


Seems as if they were never at the Marriot hotel that night.

That's what I'm saying Blah.  Seems more likely they were at Arashi Beach...where Deepak said he had to get out and take a leak.

I agree with you, it makes more sense.  Also, doesnt that work better with the cell phone records?

I think they did go to Arashi beach and the Deepak leak spot.  However it doesn't make much sense that Arashi would have been the spot where J and N would have been left behind when the trio seperated at around 1:50: The spot that J was calling from at 2:40 (which presumably used the Marriott beach cell tower), and that Deeapk told JH Croes that Joran was walking home from.  I don't see Joran walking home all the way from Arashi.  



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[LilPuma]

I don't think Joran and Natalee would have been left at Arashi, that doesn't make much sense as a scenario either for a planned rape or an encounter that Joran anticipated would be consensual: Why Arashi beach and not a beach near her hotel where she can walk back afterwords and he only has to walk 2 miles home instead of 4 miles.

Aruba doesn't seem to have lush locales where three guys could rape a woman without the risk of being seen; few bushes, trees or other sight and sound barriers.  Not having seen these beaches, I don't know for sure, but it's another reason I don't think they went to any beach.  Shango says they don't build sand castles; could mean he knows they didn't go to the beach.  I think they made up the story because 1) they're familiar with the Marriott area and 2) it had to be close enough to HI to make Joran look less like a worm for leaving Natalee there; the Marriott is close enough to HI that she could have walked.

[blah]

Pathetic job dodging the question here Satish:

"You advise me that on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the nighttime hours threee fishermen were on the beach north of the Marriot hotel and that they at no time had seen our car in the vicinity of the hotel.  On your question how I can explain that, I will tell you the following:

When Deepaks car was parked at the north side of the marriot hotel, Joran and the missing girl immediately stepped out and walked in the direction of the beach.  The 3 men could not have seen Deepak and I because we did not walk to the beach."


Satish - your answer does not go with the question, it makes no sense.


Seems as if they were never at the Marriot hotel that night.

That's what I'm saying Blah.  Seems more likely they were at Arashi Beach...where Deepak said he had to get out and take a leak.

I agree with you, it makes more sense.  Also, doesnt that work better with the cell phone records?

I think they did go to Arashi beach and the Deepak leak spot.  However it doesn't make much sense that Arashi would have been the spot where J and N would have been left behind when the trio seperated at around 1:50: The spot that J was calling from at 2:40 (which presumably used the Marriott beach cell tower), and that Deeapk told JH Croes that Joran was walking home from.  I don't see Joran walking home all the way from Arashi.  



.

it would make sense if she were dead or dying at this point and they threw them out of their car.

[Shizaru]

Satish's statement makes sense in that they stayed in the car, so if the fishermen couldn't see the car, they couldn't see 2K.  I still don't believe they went to the beach.  Beth is convinced they went to Joran's and this still makes the most sense to me and also explains Freddy being involved and the "Freddy's got to tell the truth" statement.  

There are very few things I am sure of in this case but one thing I am 99% sure of is that the crime scene was not Joran's home.  That theory is totally incompatible with Joran's "I'm home" text message to Deepak, and the idea that the text messages were intended as an alibi makes zero logical sense, since they actually contradicted the trio's HI dropoff story and Joran's next two stories as well,

[klaasend]

Pathetic job dodging the question here Satish:

"You advise me that on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the nighttime hours threee fishermen were on the beach north of the Marriot hotel and that they at no time had seen our car in the vicinity of the hotel.  On your question how I can explain that, I will tell you the following:

When Deepaks car was parked at the north side of the marriot hotel, Joran and the missing girl immediately stepped out and walked in the direction of the beach.  The 3 men could not have seen Deepak and I because we did not walk to the beach."


Satish - your answer does not go with the question, it makes no sense.


Seems as if they were never at the Marriot hotel that night.

That's what I'm saying Blah.  Seems more likely they were at Arashi Beach...where Deepak said he had to get out and take a leak.

I agree with you, it makes more sense.  Also, doesnt that work better with the cell phone records?

I think they did go to Arashi beach and the Deepak leak spot.  However it doesn't make much sense that Arashi would have been the spot where J and N would have been left behind when the trio seperated at around 1:50: The spot that J was calling from at 2:40 (which presumably used the Marriott beach cell tower), and that Deeapk told JH Croes that Joran was walking home from.  I don't see Joran walking home all the way from Arashi.  



.

I don't for a minute think Joran walked home from anywhere.  He got a ride home from some.  I don't know if it was K2, or Freddy or Guido.  But he got a ride home, IMO.

[oldfart]

I don't think Joran and Natalee would have been left at Arashi, that doesn't make much sense as a scenario either for a planned rape or an encounter that Joran anticipated would be consensual: Why Arashi beach and not a beach near her hotel where she can walk back afterwords and he only has to walk 2 miles home instead of 4 miles.

Aruba doesn't seem to have lush locales where three guys could rape a woman without the risk of being seen; few bushes, trees or other sight and sound barriers.  Not having seen these beaches, I don't know for sure, but it's another reason I don't think they went to any beach.  Shango says they don't build sand castles; could mean he knows they didn't go to the beach.  I think they made up the story because 1) they're familiar with the Marriott area and 2) it had to be close enough to HI to make Joran look less like a worm for leaving Natalee there; the Marriott is close enough to HI that she could have walked.

I'v always wondered if Natalee thought she was going back to the hotel and then they went past it what would she have done?  

When did the light house / sharks conversation supposedly occur.. before or after seeing the MB kids on the street?  If before .. I would have thought she would have said something like
I'm going to see the sharks then I'll be back  vs something like they are taking me to the hotel.

Just wondering

[blah]

Satish's statement makes sense in that they stayed in the car, so if the fishermen couldn't see the car, they couldn't see 2K.  I still don't believe they went to the beach.  Beth is convinced they went to Joran's and this still makes the most sense to me and also explains Freddy being involved and the "Freddy's got to tell the truth" statement.  

There are very few things I am sure of in this case but one thing I am 99% sure of is that the crime scene was not Joran's home.  That theory is totally incompatible with Joran's "I'm home" text message to Deepak, and the idea that the text messages were intended as an alibi makes zero logical sense, since they actually contradicted the trio's HI dropoff story and Joran's next two stories as well,

I agree.  I think the pimp mobile is the crime scene.

[LilPuma]

Satish's statement makes sense in that they stayed in the car, so if the fishermen couldn't see the car, they couldn't see 2K.  I still don't believe they went to the beach.  Beth is convinced they went to Joran's and this still makes the most sense to me and also explains Freddy being involved and the "Freddy's got to tell the truth" statement.  

There are very few things I am sure of in this case but one thing I am 99% sure of is that the crime scene was not Joran's home.  That theory is totally incompatible with Joran's "I'm home" text message to Deepak, and the idea that the text messages were intended as an alibi makes zero logical sense, since they actually contradicted the trio's HI dropoff story and Joran's next two stories as well,

Even if they were at Joran's, Joran would have to leave again to drop Natalee off somewhere, and thus would explain the text message "I'm home".  I'm thinking she didn't die at the Slooty house, but afterwards when they were taking her somewhere to drop her off.  That's why I'm wondering what they M.O. is with the tourists they pick up.  What do they do if a woman they pick up is too drunk or drugged to be dropped off in front of her hotel?  Do they drug women and leave them on a beach near their hotel?

[Shizaru]

Pathetic job dodging the question here Satish:

"You advise me that on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the nighttime hours threee fishermen were on the beach north of the Marriot hotel and that they at no time had seen our car in the vicinity of the hotel.  On your question how I can explain that, I will tell you the following:

When Deepaks car was parked at the north side of the marriot hotel, Joran and the missing girl immediately stepped out and walked in the direction of the beach.  The 3 men could not have seen Deepak and I because we did not walk to the beach."


Satish - your answer does not go with the question, it makes no sense.


Seems as if they were never at the Marriot hotel that night.

That's what I'm saying Blah.  Seems more likely they were at Arashi Beach...where Deepak said he had to get out and take a leak.

I agree with you, it makes more sense.  Also, doesnt that work better with the cell phone records?

I think they did go to Arashi beach and the Deepak leak spot.  However it doesn't make much sense that Arashi would have been the spot where J and N would have been left behind when the trio seperated at around 1:50: The spot that J was calling from at 2:40 (which presumably used the Marriott beach cell tower), and that Deeapk told JH Croes that Joran was walking home from.  I don't see Joran walking home all the way from Arashi.  



.

it would make sense if she were dead or dying at this point and they threw them out of their car.

Yes. but that scenario is incompatable with text messages and secretly recorded polis car tape, Joran and Deepak are talking to each other like nothing is wrong, which means that either a) they were anticipating the polis would read their messages and creating a false alibi (which is clearly not the case, doesn't make logical sense given their initial stories) or b) that at last one of the two didn't know that anything was wrong

[blah]

Yes. but that scenario is incompatable with text messages and secretly recorded polis car tape, Joran and Deepak are talking to each other like nothing is wrong, which means that either a) they were anticipating the polis would read their messages and creating a false alibi (which is clearly not the case, doesn't make logical sense given their initial stories) or b) that at last one of the two didn't know that anything was wrong

how does "i'm home" = talking like nothing is wrong?

[klaasend]

Turn on CNN HEADLINE news now.  The Glenn Beck show.  Tim Miller will be on, not sure at what time durring the show, but he will be on.

[MissinNat]

Turn on CNN HEADLINE news now.  The Glenn Beck show.  Tim Miller will be on, not sure at what time durring the show, but he will be on.

Thanks, Klaas!  I've got it on.  Thank you!

Congrats on the computer class!  I bet you'll get many more assignments as they get to know you more!

Nice work!

[blah]

Turn on CNN HEADLINE news now.  The Glenn Beck show.  Tim Miller will be on, not sure at what time durring the show, but he will be on.

Thanks, Klaas!  I've got it on.  Thank you!

Congrats on the computer class!  I bet you'll get many more assignments as they get to know you more!

Nice work!

is this the channel with some goof with a purple tie spouting about bin laden?  I'm at a htel and nit sure what channel is what.

[klaasend]

Blah - yes.  I thought he was a little "goofy" myself, lol  

[blah]

Turn on CNN HEADLINE news now.  The Glenn Beck show.  Tim Miller will be on, not sure at what time durring the show, but he will be on.

Thanks, Klaas!  I've got it on.  Thank you!

Congrats on the computer class!  I bet you'll get many more assignments as they get to know you more!

Nice work!

is this the channel with some goof with a purple tie spouting about bin laden?  I'm at a hotel and not sure what channel is what.

yeah,  i can type....

 

[MissinNat]

Turn on CNN HEADLINE news now.  The Glenn Beck show.  Tim Miller will be on, not sure at what time durring the show, but he will be on.

Thanks, Klaas!  I've got it on.  Thank you!

Congrats on the computer class!  I bet you'll get many more assignments as they get to know you more!

Nice work!

is this the channel with some goof with a purple tie spouting about bin laden?  I'm at a htel and nit sure what channel is what.

Yes!  You have the right channel!