Natalee Case Discussion #717 1/31 - 2/01/08

[Bearlyhere]

So is Koen the 5th suspect?  Mum?  Where are you?  We have considered him often...but never made the alibi connection other than that supposed family get together.

I'm here Lala's...was looking for all that stuff on the 'G's...too much posting going on lately over there and can't find it...Dutch bothers...

I can't find anything in the Shango thread anymore. Remember our talk about the two Dutch brothers questioned and then Freddy gets grilled several times after that?  Freddy knew what happened...he may have helped in some way.  Deepak and Satish knew that Freddy knew the truth...but they didn't say anything to their own attorneys?  WTH?  I am a little shocked right now.  To think that so many things we have speculated on that seemed so far out there could actually be true...I never thought anything could surprise me..but this time I admit it has.  Deepak and Satish knew that Paulus had asked them to lie for their precious son...the same one that dumped Beth's precious daughter into the ocean.  WTH?

Hi Lalas 

Sometimes I have better luck going to google and it sends me to the right place in SM.  I have had trouble reading the Shango thread with the way it starts out.  History is not my best subject.  

[SunnyinTX]

Why oh why are these people not under arrest....

I do not understand their system  
(or lack there of)

I have been wondering since this broke why the killer hasn't been arrested....perhaps they are trying to find a judge who is willing to sign the warrant?  I also wonder if the infiltrator is under protective custody?

[Dayhiker]

Hey, if PTB on Aruba knew this to be fact or even thought this is the way it went down...why would they allow these two families to wreak so much havoc on their island.  The Sloots alone have practically destroyed the livelihood of this small country.  They are not gods...they put their pants on just like everyone else down there. Paulus must have a key to that closet where the skeletons reside.  He must have the only key. 

The powers to be in Aruba should have asked that question a long time ago before they lost a half or so billion dollars.

AHATA should be proud of their wonderful son now.

[AZLady]

In light of the information that the Sloots and DeVries knew about Joran's confession to a secret hidden camera, I went back and reread the transcript of the show they did in Netherlands: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2522.0
I thought that perhaps DeVries comments would lead me to suspect what made Joran so mad that he threw the wine at him.

Here are what I think are the significant comments and questions that DeVries makes to Joran.

Pauw: Well there were, before we started this show, some jokes made at this table like: ‘Well Peter… where’s your hidden camera…’ Well that hidden camera is not here right now. Peter, you have tried to get in contact with the VanderSloot-family a couple of times to have interviews… So you didn’t just walk behind them with your hidden camera… Do you understand something of the answer of Paul van der Sloot?

PRdV: No, to be honest, I don’t understand very much of that. I think it’s strange to hear him say here, he has nothing to hide, and he didn’t want to frustrate the investigation… But than I have to notice that they did nothing to help the case. Because Joran vdS has when he was at Aruba the last weeks, and could explain all his actions / conducts, maybe could end the mysteries, maybe could shed some light on that.., he has for weeks ‘kept his molars close on top of each-other’ (dutch expression = didn’t speak). Has not spoken a word, not answered one question! That is not what PvdS says…… this nice saying ‘We have nothing to hide’. Then I think… If you are innocent… and you did nothing wrong… why don’t you just tell your story, why don’t you answer questions from the police? The fact that you just kept your jaws closed (dutch expr.) I think in these circumstances is very strange…..

Pauw: Let’s agree that somewhat later in this show on this question, this is one of your questions but you have more of them, get answers from Joran or his father or mother… But first we…

Peter: Yes…. Just give hime some time to think…..

Pauw: Yes… So you have time to find the ‘right’ answer… (LOL)

The above focuses on Joran's lies.  Peter makes a BIG deal about the lies.  These are the clue to uncovering what happened.  Why lie and continue lying?  Who is Joran protecting?

Peter: Well I think it’s a bit awkward that you say the Aruban OM is not trustworthy where it was you who lied all the time?!
Joran: Yes I lied and I admitt that but there were reasons for that and you don’t know them and….
Peter: Yes! I would like to know those reasons! … To lie about what you have done where you supposedly have nothing to hide!? Why do you have to lie then, tell me that?!
Joran: Well I did that extensivly in my book allready. And you have read that so you allready know the reasons.
Peter: But you are here now to tell your story or…?!!!

Peter: You just can tell the truth can you, when nothing happened? There’s no reason to lie is there?
Joran: Yes, I don’t think the truth sounds that good if you have to say you left a girl at the beach.
Peter: So you think a lie sounds better than the truth?
Joran: Well I didn’t know how serious this all was. I didn’t know there was a serious problem.
Peter: That’s exacly why it is so strange to lie!? When you don’t know that there is a serious problem there is no reason to lie at all!? That’s exactly the strange thing of lying here!?

This is the most interesting part.  When Peter zeroes in on the ONE BIG LIE that Joran will not come clean about, Joran and Peter both get upset.  Their comments even become illegible. 

Peter: If you want to discuss the facts, than tell me how you got home that night?
Joran: I was taken home by Satish…
Peter: Yes… And he denies that! He says I didn’t take him to his home at all! And first you stated that you were brought home by Deepak!!?? Not by Satish!!! Those are things as well that put you in a…..
Joran: Mister De Vries… I don’t know if you ever…
Peter: Why should they lie?
Witt.: Give him a change to answer this….
Joran: …if you ever were interrogated by the police…. in a murder case…
Peter: (Unintelligible. Something like ‘Yes I was’…)
Joran: In a murder-case?!
Peter: No… Not where I was a suspect…
Joran: The way I was interrogated was no pleasure…
Peter: And you know….
Joran: The only thing you think of is wanting to go home… So there are things you say that…. Yes… If you’re being promised you can go home… or it can help to get you home… than there are things you say that… (Unintelligible.)
Peter: (Unintelligible.)
Witt.: (Unintelligible.) Peter! Especially you know that people confess a murder that they didn’t commit. (In the past PRdV has gotten some people out of jail that indeed had confessed to committing a murder after being put under very strong pressure.)
Peter: And what does that has to do with this?
Witt.: Because in this way you can miss the truth.
Peter: But… How DID you get home?
Joran: I just told you that!?!
Peter: But those two brother denie that and from the email… from the sms- and chat-contacts that were there it shows up clearly that they didn’t bring you home.Joran: That’s what you draw from that… But that’s not true at all… I think it indeed DOES show that.

After this Pauw steers the conversation more towards Paulus and Anita, until the end when Peter brings up the picture of Joran and Natalee.  After that Joran throws the wine at Peter.

I think that the key may be in who picked up Joran that night.  I'm beginning to believe that Paulus picked up both Joran and an unresponsive Natalee that night at 4 AM.  Paulus helped Joran make the arrangements with Koen to dump her body.  Paulus' close involvement in Natalee's death and body disposal at sea is the shocker that DeVries will expose to the world.

[klaasend]

The pictures are fake

The black picture has a Light source on the right but no shadows and a complete black foundation on the left... how is that possible...Photoshop and bad layering

The other other reverse picture 02:49 / 04:27  one is the time and one is the date and how they are linked to the case

if first set of number is the time, then the date is April 27
if fist set is date 02:49 this is February

The screen captures of the bag in the pond have been copied and manipulated in photoshop or other photo software many times and adjusted, etc. 

[robots]

LOAD ALERT -- WARNING -- DANGER -- BS --  LIAR -- TILT -- WARNING


"Natalee collapsed and he thought she died"

BULL BULL BULL


paulus knew she died, paulus instructed them to be quiet

your own father  --->  told us to keep telling lies because without a body there is no case..........

Yeah Bots, and his own computer records confirm it.

yep

[Lala'sMom]

Influential?  Didn't the Gottenbos daddy sell insurance or something like that?  I can't remember. I do think they had a better house than the Sloots, but if all Koen did was drive the boat...then he could have already talked and been free.  He could have claimed that Joran threatened him in some way and made him help him.I mean who runs out to sea with a body in your boat and doesn't hesitate for a moment?  Koen is an accessory and needs to be brought in.  I hope the Gottenbos are not so stupid as to be talking to the Sloots right now...I suspect Paulus would have no trouble shoving K under that bus too. MOO

[Nut44x4]

There is a meltdown going on at RU.

SUNMOONSTARS
There was a report from a reputable news source today that his parents were told. They said he trusted the wrong person. I don't think they would be saying that if they don't KNOW Joran has said something serious.
I have no intention of arguing anymore, I just don't get this attitude. I thought everyone wanted the truth, no matter what.

HELI

Go to the transcript I just posted of Greta interviewing from Holland.
She must have some info from someone about what Joran has confessed
to and it's completely different from some of the other shit that's been
sent floating into the ether.

He took her out beyond the sandbar and let her go ... essentially he
murdered her.

Hey, I'm beginning to think de Vries won't give a shit how his sting
operation is received or if it advances the case; he's making a ton of
money and even if it's a total bomb he can laugh all the way to the bank.

[robots]

LOAD ALERT -- WARNING -- DANGER -- BS --  LIAR -- TILT -- WARNING


"Natalee collapsed and he thought she died"

BULL BULL BULL


paulus knew she died, paulus instructed them to be quiet

your own father  --->  told us to keep telling lies because without a body there is no case..........

robots,

looks like the rock scene may finally come into play.

the question is now: dump / incinerator / ocean ??

we will find out soon ::MonkeyWink::enough

[Bearlyhere]

So is Koen the 5th suspect?  Mum?  Where are you?  We have considered him often...but never made the alibi connection other than that supposed family get together.

I'm here Lala's...was looking for all that stuff on the 'G's...too much posting going on lately over there and can't find it...Dutch bothers...

I can't find anything in the Shango thread anymore. Remember our talk about the two Dutch brothers questioned and then Freddy gets grilled several times after that?  Freddy knew what happened...he may have helped in some way.  Deepak and Satish knew that Freddy knew the truth...but they didn't say anything to their own attorneys?  WTH?  I am a little shocked right now.  To think that so many things we have speculated on that seemed so far out there could actually be true...I never thought anything could surprise me..but this time I admit it has.  Deepak and Satish knew that Paulus had asked them to lie for their precious son...the same one that dumped Beth's precious daughter into the ocean.  WTH?

Hi Lalas 

Sometimes I have better luck going to google and it sends me to the right place in SM.  I have had trouble reading the Shango thread with the way it starts out.  History is not my best subject.  

Edited to add:

Or Klaas has the answer before I lift my fingers from the keyboard.

[Nut44x4]

GRETA IS IN HOLLAND Interview on FNC Feb 1, 2007 TRANSCRIPT via HELI at RU

E. D. Hill interviewing Greta in The Netherlands

Fox News Channel
Friday, February 1, 2008
13:40 EST

E. D. Hill:

Greta van Susteren is in Holland where Natalee's mother got a first hand look and listen to the tape, she joins us on the phone now.

Greta, what are you learning?

Greta:

Here's what we're learning and it's very mysterious because, look the way the Dutch television reporter has positioned this with all the promo and the teases and things that have been reported in the United States, is that this is a confession that he says "look, I took her out there, out beyond the sandbar, I let her go and she's gone" essentially that he murdered her. We don't know if there's more alleged in this tape.

But here's what's so mysterious, if this happened why is the prosecutor, the public prosecutor in Aruba making and releasing press releases yesterday and today which almost flags everybody off not to expect an arrest; so that's peculiar. Even Dave Holloway, Natalee's father who I spoke to last night, wondered why no one's moving on this so where we're kind of stuck is trying to figure out is, is this a Dutch tv hyping a story or is this Dutch tv reporter doing something that the aruban police were never able to do and that's solve the case.

E.D.:

That's what I was asking you yesterday you know, I said if anybody's going to uncover it, wouldn't it be the police not some reporter, however good he is in Holland? You said no, it could be easier for them because they don't have the regulations the police have and it sounds like that's what happened here.

Greta:

Also they may have more interest, they may be more diligent. Apparently this reporter has made a career of solving crimes, apparently it's right up his alley.

The police in Aruba as you know, many of us thought would have liked to solve it but when it exploded all over them it almost seemed that they were trying to hide everything under the rug. This may just be a very ambitious reporter whose gone out and done things that nobody else could do including speak the language that Joran van der Sloot is very comfortable speaking, which is Dutch or this could just be television hype and we're all on a emotional roller coaster, and we were all there last last December when the public prosecutor himself said 'look, we have new evidence' and it turned out (inaudible.

So everyone's perplexed, it's very curious and we're pounding the pavement and the phones and trying to get more information.

I tell you one thing, Beth Holloway claims ot have seen it, and I believe she did see it and she apparently through her lawyer last night says she's got answers, so I don't know.

E.D.:

I know you talked to both her lawyer and Joran's lawyer, now the interesting thing of course people may remember the incident where Joran van der Sloot and this reporter Peter de Vries were on a tv talk show in The Netherlands and at the end of it, don't know what happened but Joran stood up and threw a glass of wine directly into this guy's face, he was not expecting anything, so I wonder if there's extra impetus from his side to basically get Joran?

Greta:

Look, every journalist wants to solve the case because it's dogged us, we haven't been able to complete it and I don't, I'm not suspicious of the journalist in trying to solve it and here's the key: if Joran van der Sloot confesses on tape to this crime, it still has to be taken a step further, they have to make sure the confession is a truthful one because here is the most bizarre thing that we've learned in the criminal justice system here in the United States and it's something that no one wants to believe could ever happen but people confess to crimes they didn't commit which is so alien, how could anyone possible do that but anyway, they do.

So you take the statement that's on tape and you have to go and you have to corroborate it, find independent information to corroborate the truthfulness of it, if this is even a confession, right now we're just operating off the hype of this Dutch television station doing all their teases and what they're leaking to american media.

E.D.:

It's been very nice of you to get up early to join us, you've got your show later on tonight.

Last edited by Heli on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU - sorry if it's already been posted here:

E. D. Hill interviewing Greta in The Netherlands

Fox News Channel
Friday, February 1, 2008
13:40 EST
E. D. Hill:

Greta van Susteren is in Holland where Natalee's mother got a first hand look and listen to the tape, she joins us on the phone now.

Greta, what are you learning?

Greta:

Here's what we're learning and it's very mysterious because, look the way the Dutch television reporter has positioned this with all the promo and the teases and things that have been reported in the United States, is that this is a confession that he says "look, I took her out there, out beyond the sandbar, I let her go and she's gone" essentially that he murdered her. We don't know if there's more alleged in this tape.

But here's what's so mysterious, if this happened why is the prosecutor, the public prosecutor in Aruba making and releasing press releases yesterday and today which almost flags everybody off not to expect an arrest; so that's peculiar. Even Dave Holloway, Natalee's father who I spoke to last night, wondered why no one's moving on this so where we're kind of stuck is trying to figure out is, is this a Dutch tv hyping a story or is this Dutch tv reporter doing something that the aruban police were never able to do and that's solve the case.

E.D.:

That's what I was asking you yesterday you know, I said if anybody's going to uncover it, wouldn't it be the police not some reporter, however good he is in Holland? You said no, it could be easier for them because they don't have the regulations the police have and it sounds like that's what happened here.

Greta:

Also they may have more interest, they may be more diligent. Apparently this reporter has made a career of solving crimes, apparently it's right up his alley.

The police in Aruba as you know, many of us thought would have liked to solve it but when it exploded all over them it almost seemed that they were trying to hide everything under the rug. This may just be a very ambitious reporter whose gone out and done things that nobody else could do including speak the language that Joran van der Sloot is very comfortable speaking, which is Dutch or this could just be television hype and we're all on a emotional roller coaster, and we were all there last last December when the public prosecutor himself said 'look, we have new evidence' and it turned out (inaudible.

So everyone's perplexed, it's very curious and we're pounding the pavement and the phones and trying to get more information.

I tell you one thing, Beth Holloway claims ot have seen it, and I believe she did see it and she apparently through her lawyer last night says she's got answers, so I don't know.

E.D.:

I know you talked to both her lawyer and Joran's lawyer, now the interesting thing of course people may remember the incident where Joran van der Sloot and this reporter Peter de Vries were on a tv talk show in The Netherlands and at the end of it, don't know what happened but Joran stood up and threw a glass of wine directly into this guy's face, he was not expecting anything, so I wonder if there's extra impetus from his side to basically get Joran?

Greta:

Look, every journalist wants to solve the case because it's dogged us, we haven't been able to complete it and I don't, I'm not suspicious of the journalist in trying to solve it and here's the key: if Joran van der Sloot confesses on tape to this crime, it still has to be taken a step further, they have to make sure the confession is a truthful one because here is the most bizarre thing that we've learned in the criminal justice system here in the United States and it's something that no one wants to believe could ever happen but people confess to crimes they didn't commit which is so alien, how could anyone possible do that but anyway, they do.

So you take the statement that's on tape and you have to go and you have to corroborate it, find independent information to corroborate the truthfulness of it, if this is even a confession, right now we're just operating off the hype of this Dutch television station doing all their teases and what they're leaking to american media.

E.D.:

It's been very nice of you to get up early to join us, you've got your show later on tonight

[Port Valerie]

Thanks, CBB, for the new avi. Testing to see how I look :

[Bearlyhere]

Why oh why are these people not under arrest....

I do not understand their system  
(or lack there of)

I have been wondering since this broke why the killer hasn't been arrested....perhaps they are trying to find a judge who is willing to sign the warrant?  I also wonder if the infiltrator is under protective custody?

I thought they were trying to cooberate this story in any way they could before looking like total jackasses...again!

[Lala'sMom]

Paulus jumped in the jeep and ran out to pick up Joran and Natalee.  Maybe he was planning on taking her for help and by the time he got there she was beyond help. I don't know.

 Seems I remember a story that placed Joran and Natalee in the jeep with Paulus at the 4 AM time frame near an ATM machine.  Man, you would have to pay me more than what Paulus could withdraw out of his account at that time of the morning to drive my boat out to sea and dump a body. He had to replace that cash the next day. He was at the bank...replacing the money he paid Koen...the fact that he paid him made him more culpable.  HMMMMMM. MOO

[Dayhiker]

Influential?  Didn't the Gottenbos daddy sell insurance or something like that?  I can't remember. I do think they had a better house than the Sloots, but if all Koen did was drive the boat...then he could have already talked and been free.  He could have claimed that Joran threatened him in some way and made him help him.I mean who runs out to sea with a body in your boat and doesn't hesitate for a moment?  Koen is an accessory and needs to be brought in.  I hope the Gottenbos are not so stupid as to be talking to the Sloots right now...I suspect Paulus would have no trouble shoving K under that bus too. MOO

I spec Koen will be talking for himself this time. His best buddy just sold him up the river.

[Tibrogargan]

Hey, if PTB on Aruba knew this to be fact or even thought this is the way it went down...why would they allow these two families to wreak so much havoc on their island.  The Sloots alone have practically destroyed the livelihood of this small country.  They are not gods...they put their pants on just like everyone else down there. Paulus must have a key to that closet where the skeletons reside.  He must have the only key. 

Yes Lalas - they do, but they leave them unzipped.

[Bearlyhere]

Influential?  Didn't the Gottenbos daddy sell insurance or something like that?  I can't remember. I do think they had a better house than the Sloots, but if all Koen did was drive the boat...then he could have already talked and been free.  He could have claimed that Joran threatened him in some way and made him help him.I mean who runs out to sea with a body in your boat and doesn't hesitate for a moment?  Koen is an accessory and needs to be brought in.  I hope the Gottenbos are not so stupid as to be talking to the Sloots right now...I suspect Paulus would have no trouble shoving K under that bus too. MOO

Or tossing him overboard.

[Magnolia]

It has seemed to me that Kyle has been keeping
something under his hat lately.  I surely hope that is the case.

[Ree]

It has seemed to me that Kyle has been keeping
something under his hat lately.  I surely hope that is the case.

I agree.  Notice that JQK also said her body could not be recovered now.  No indication that it couldn't be done soon.  I hope that MOS is waiting for the recovery to make an arrest so he can prove it was no "accident".