Natalee Case Discusstion #692 11/24 - 11/25/2007

[NYC_lover]

I've been searching Dutch law, and can't find anything on the amount of time served that a minor would be sentenced to if he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.  This worries me because Joran was considered a minor when Natalee dissapeared.  Can/will Joran be charged as a minor or as an adult?   I am concerned about this.  Anybody know?

Jossy said the other night he was looking at 5-25 yrs

Huh 5 years???? early had post something about manslaughter. For manslaugther can someone get a priston-sentence for around 12 to 18 years, and there can a sentence reduction comes of 1/3 from the sentence.
Then is it 8 to 12 years.

[Frijole]

Per Lazlo-

The evidence is Joran incriminating himself. Per a Dutch news correspondent Joran phone taps have him explaining what happened to Natalee.

Holy moly guacamole. I pray this is true.

[Slogger]

Hi Slogger ... I have missed ya.

I only speculate.

However ... one way or another ... I pray the truth will be revealed and ... there will be closure for Natalee's family.  The issue of justice ...  I believe that it will forever remain elusive.  I wish I could comprehend God's plan in regards to the outcome.

Janet

Thank you, Janet.  I see/read you every day...lol
MO...you are Dr. Janet, Ph.D. of Documentation, a true expert.

We each give our opinions and bounce around old and new ideas.

I have hope for resolution and some peace for Natalee's families.

[Observer]

Sorry if this has been posted already..More pics of Joran and the beginning and end of this CNN Newsclip. He was not in cuffs and was laughing and joking with the officers transporting him.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C06Y26gwddQ

[lnichols]

Well, I am out of here for now... BBL

[Tamikosmom]

I've been searching Dutch law, and can't find anything on the amount of time served that a minor would be sentenced to if he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.  This worries me because Joran was considered a minor when Natalee dissapeared.  Can/will Joran be charged as a minor or as an adult?   I am concerned about this.  Anybody know?

Jossy said the other night he was looking at 5-25 yrs

Well whatever he gets is not long enough....

I wonder if they would consider a Jury of Monkeys instead of a Judge... Hmmmmm  I would be proud to serve...LOL

lnichols ... I want to be the Monkey interrogator.  I know I could derived the truth out of Joran, Deepak and Satish in a relatively short period of time.  Just ask my eldest son regarding his mother's interrogation techniques ... interrogation techiques used on him went he was a teenager.  He would claim it was fear that motivated him to come clean but ... his mother insists that her motivation was love.

 

Janet

[Rob]

Per Lazlo-

The evidence is Joran incriminating himself. Per a Dutch news correspondent Joran phone taps have him explaining what happened to Natalee.

Holy moly guacamole. I pray this is true.

Hi Bean - and ya know - if this is true, he hasn't YET implicated Paulus. Perhaps this is why Paulus hasn't been detained yet.

Wonder if this is what the interrogations are all about - getting to Paulus.

If that statement is true - they have Joran nailed and the Kalpoe Brothers sure look to be in a world of hurt... but Paulus must not have been implicated in the tapped phone calls.

[Nut44x4]

I've been searching Dutch law, and can't find anything on the amount of time served that a minor would be sentenced to if he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.  This worries me because Joran was considered a minor when Natalee dissapeared.  Can/will Joran be charged as a minor or as an adult?   I am concerned about this.  Anybody know?

I am concerned also Snoopy.  If he gets something like 4 years that is a pretty cheap price to pay for drugging/raping/killing a young girl.  What was the offer that Van der Straaten offered Joran.  The Kalpoes would be in more trouble because they were of legal age as Anita has stress "there were grownups there".

From Wiki:



The Netherlands

By Dutch law, murder (moord) is punishable by a maximum sentence of life imprisonment, which is the longest prison sentence the law allows. A common misconception is that the maximum sentence is 30 years (20 until 2006): this is the longest sentence that can be imposed other than life imprisonment. However, a life sentence is only imposed under special circumstances, such as multiple murders or prior convictions. The average sentence is 12 to 15 years[citation needed]. In addition to a prison sentence, the judge may sentence the suspect to TBS, or 'terbeschikkingstelling', meaning detention in a psychiatric institution, sometimes including forced treatment. TBS is imposed for a number of years (most often in relation to the severity of the crime) and thereafter prolonged if deemed necessary by a committee of psychiatrists. This can be done indefinitely, and has therefore been criticized as being a life sentence in disguise. Voluntary manslaughter (doodslag) is punishable by a prison sentence of up to 15 years, or life imprisonment when committed during the commission of a crime or as an act of terrorism. Involuntary manslaughter (dood door schuld) is punishable by a prison sentence of up to two years. If involuntary manslaughter is caused by recklessness, the maximum sentence that can be imposed is four years.

REMEMBER.this is from Wikipedia...
It seems someone contradicted this on a board, can't remember who or where...but I think that person said maybe 15 years but serve 6?

[Buckeye]

igsigs and Klaas touched on this from RU.  Does anyone remeber this??  Tyler?? none??:


iquitos wrote:
is that she hit her head getting out of the car at the holiday inn? so she hit her head and then they disposed of her body. did they push her? are they responsible for her hitting her head? is that mishandeling?

dugo Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:22 pm
Yeah, If you try to re-enact a bangbus episode where the custom is to throw the bitch out of the car in the end and you do it in such a way she hits her head, yeah, that is mishandeling.


dugo Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:27 pm

Yeah,  indeed .. I'm so pissed off I didn't save a copy of that post before it got nuked by the mods. It was Jorans MSN screnname (FOca@ B@rc@ or something) chatting about her hitting her head.


Black-Tulip Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:57 pm


I remember, something with Barcelona in it b@rcelona ? Football?

[klaasend]

Sorry if this has been posted already..More pics of Joran and the beginning and end of this CNN Newsclip. He was not in cuffs and was laughing and joking with the officers transporting him.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C06Y26gwddQ

Thanks ******* - I don't see any handcuffs at this point:


This must be at the airport in the NL or after just arriving in Curacao:






Then Curacao - waiting for plane to Aruba:

[klaasend]

igsigs and Klaas touched on this from RU.  Does anyone remeber this??  Tyler?? none??:


iquitos wrote:
is that she hit her head getting out of the car at the holiday inn? so she hit her head and then they disposed of her body. did they push her? are they responsible for her hitting her head? is that mishandeling?

dugo Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:22 pm
Yeah, If you try to re-enact a bangbus episode where the custom is to throw the bitch out of the car in the end and you do it in such a way she hits her head, yeah, that is mishandeling.


dugo Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:27 pm

Yeah,  indeed .. I'm so pissed off I didn't save a copy of that post before it got nuked by the mods. It was Jorans MSN screnname (FOca@ B@rc@ or something) chatting about her hitting her head.


Black-Tulip Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:57 pm


I remember, something with Barcelona in it b@rcelona ? Football?

I remember that being Joran's MSN name but I don't remember any MSN of Joran's being posted at SM then deleted.  We would not delete it.  I can see why it would be deleted at RU though.

[Observer]

Klaas:

I believe that video from Curacao  was taken by the Vigilante Newspaper. They were the same newspaper that said that Steve Croes was the one who broke into the fisherman huts and stole the supplies.

[Frijole]

Per Lazlo-

The evidence is Joran incriminating himself. Per a Dutch news correspondent Joran phone taps have him explaining what happened to Natalee.

Holy moly guacamole. I pray this is true.

Hi Bean - and ya know - if this is true, he hasn't YET implicated Paulus. Perhaps this is why Paulus hasn't been detained yet.

Wonder if this is what the interrogations are all about - getting to Paulus.

If that statement is true - they have Joran nailed and the Kalpoe Brothers sure look to be in a world of hurt... but Paulus must not have been implicated in the tapped phone calls.

Hi back at ya!
I think there is a specific ORDER they want to ? these guys.  First up Deepak so he can tell more lies.  Next Satish in hopes that something that Deepak says will CONFUSE or UPSET our dear Satish and Satish breaks.  Definitely want the brothers FIRST up.  Get them spilling their guts prior to meeting with the MASTER LIER JVDS. 

Hopefully the bros will turn and implicate Paulus.  I pray.

[klaasend]

Klaas:

I believe that video from Curacao  was taken by the Vigilante Newspaper. They were the same newspaper that said that Steve Croes was the one who broke into the fisherman huts and stole the supplies.

Could be all Curaco.  I only saw Joran smiling once in the video.  He certainly doesn't look jovial in the last photo.

[crazybabyborg]

Tamik, I so agree with you! Deepak and Satish owe their lives to Beth and Dave.

I am dumbsticken all over again when I think of the audacity they had to attempt to sue for damages and get money from their actions in the death of their victim.

cbb ... it was not a slight against Natalee's father when I left him out of my post.  Up until the Boycott ... Dave focused his attention on searching and keeping an open line of communication with Aruban authorities.

On the other hand ... it was mainly Beth and Jug who did the Talk Show circuit night after night ... using the media to assure that Natalee was not going to become a distance memory in the minds of Americans ... using the media to motivate the Aruban investigation to do the right thing ... let justice prevail.

cbb ... each of Natalee's parents played crucial roles in their desperate attempts for answers ... answers regarding the disappearance their precious Natalee.

Janet 

Janet, I'm just back catching up again. I knew what you were saying, Tamik. Didn't take it as a slight to anyone. I agree with you! 

[Tamikosmom]

Per Lazlo-

The evidence is Joran incriminating himself. Per a Dutch news correspondent Joran phone taps have him explaining what happened to Natalee.

Holy moly guacamole. I pray this is true.

Hi Bean - and ya know - if this is true, he hasn't YET implicated Paulus. Perhaps this is why Paulus hasn't been detained yet.

Wonder if this is what the interrogations are all about - getting to Paulus.

If that statement is true - they have Joran nailed and the Kalpoe Brothers sure look to be in a world of hurt... but Paulus must not have been implicated in the tapped phone calls.

Rob ... the tapped/communication records exist which implicate Paulus in the events encompassing the morning that Natalee Holloway disappeared but ... I speculate these records are going to be disregarded.  I suspect collaborated outcome imply limited accountability by only Joran, Deepak and Satish.

Janet

+++++++++++++++



Greta Van Susteren
On the Record w/ Greta
July 3, 2006
 
VAN SUSTEREN: .... I am also curious whether Paul van der Sloot used his phone between midnight and 7 a.m. on May 30. He told me no... he told the Dutch TV correspondent on camera no... but after the interview with the Dutch TV correspondent, he pulled him aside and said maybe he did make a call and that he was not sure.


Superior Court
January, 2007

“ ... The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”

[igsigs]

Reportedly Paulus is concerned that the pressure will cause Joran to confess to something he did not do. 

h/t Ramm

[Leslie]

I've been searching Dutch law, and can't find anything on the amount of time served that a minor would be sentenced to if he is found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.  This worries me because Joran was considered a minor when Natalee dissapeared.  Can/will Joran be charged as a minor or as an adult?   I am concerned about this.  Anybody know?

http://www.aruba.com/about/judicialsystem.php
Legal age & prosecution
51. Below 18 years is considered a minor
52. In principle no jail time, but if convicted of a felony, placed at disposal of the Government a/o equivalent to “juvenile hall” a/o in combination with half of an adult sentence. In case of life sentence, maximum of 10 years

[Scandi]

Hi to All,  I always lurked here to read when the case was active before, and thought of joining but never did.  Now I look forward to pitching in with all you great Sleuthers to the finish of the case and the solving of it, to where there will be justice for Natalee.

Thank God for the new evidence, a great strategy and new intelligent focus on the case.  Bring it on!

[Observer]

Klaas:

I believe that video from Curacao  was taken by the Vigilante Newspaper. They were the same newspaper that said that Steve Croes was the one who broke into the fisherman huts and stole the supplies.

Could be all Curaco.  I only saw Joran smiling once in the video.  He certainly doesn't look jovial in the last photo.

Looked more like Eddie Munster to me  (No its not my video)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lk2lRt9qKnU