Natalee Case Discussion #718 2/01 - 2/02/08

[Shell]

It's already morning in the Nether Lands. Hmm, do I hear a knock at the door? Ah, yes, the men in uniform are here. Joran, it's for you ...   

But this wasn't staged like the last arrest and I thought I told you I was done talking to the police. 

LOL

[Peaches]

Shave that beard!  You look like a f***ing leprocan!!! 

Oh my God that was funny.  I have always thought that.  He is disgusting!!!!

"Always after me Lucky Charms!"

Good morning.  I'm howling here trying to catch up.  So many thoughts scrambling around in my head, not the least of which is do you know they still make that crappy cereal?

[Peaches]

"She died after having sex?"

I don't think any of us would be here if that was a common "after glow"............

Joran hasn't told all of it even to the Aruban plant...........he'd never admit to anything he couldn't justify in his own mind. That's exactly why he's going to come off as arrogant and callous on those tapes. Hide and watch! ( ok, where'd my little nodding smiley go? )

If the sex was with Joran, I am sure she died of disappointment:(

Or eye strain. 

One day years ago a blonde girl was bicycling on a major road in the Pacific Northwest suburbs.  At a stoplight, a man in a volkswagon pulled up on her right, babbling about directions or some such.  Of course the man in the car does not have his pants on. 

"Is that all there is?" said the blonde girl to the genius with what little he had in his right hand.

The blonde girl pedals on leaving the man in the volkswagon to play pocket pool by himself.  No more giving directions. 

[kgwallace88]

I hear he is about to enroll in the school of hard knocks:)

They'd better get him some soap on a rope.

I am sure he is no virgin. He just needs to relax, loosen up, and instead of fighting it, just enjoy it.  Take it for Natalee big boy, show her your the man

That was hilarious!!!  I am at work and just spit all over my computer!!!

[martini]

Dutch media snips~ Public television says the footage reveals that Mr van der Sloot did not kill the US teenager but was involved in the disappearance of her body.

Ms Holloway allegedly became unwell while having sex with him on a beach. He subsequently phoned a friend and together they used a boat to dump her body in the sea.

Joran van der Sloot was speaking during a television programme but stressed he had only been bragging. He said he had been egged on by a friend and added that the authorities could easily disprove his claim.

[BUCKSHOT]

Kalpoes are probably tied to this through providing / administering the date-rape and/or other drugs.  Paulus has probably drilled in their heads that they are just as responsible as Joran for Natalee's death.

Joran swimming her out to an awaiting boat. This story may not add up to be completely true.  It would negate the rocks, the gardner's story, Paulus' 4AM story, involving Joran, and others.  Dis Steve Croes come on land, break into the FH, then drive stolen items out to the water, via his dingy boat to the awaiting disposal boat?

Koen and Sander Gottenbos have got to be crapping a load in their pants, if they were involved, which many think that they were. No wonder it is alleged that they were sleeping in their parents beds, hiding at every chance, and cleaning their boat so well.  Not to mention, they were up for tennis the following day with the delicious sporter.

Joran knows that he screwed up big time.  He can not take it back, either.  He may have had bad days, let down his guard a bit, and spilled the beans.  Their are too many people out there, a multitude, who collectively have plenty of energy, and have long awaited this opportunity. They have been ready, at a moment's notice, to pounce on his mis-step(s) and completely expose what has buried in the Aruban sands.  

Aruba, after the world has watched the discoveries on Sunday, will have no choice, but to act on this in some way, shape, or form. It will simply be too powerful to just casually set it to the side, cover it up, and water it down. It is simply too explosive of information, and it comes from none other than the delicious sporter.

The million dollar question will be: How many people will Joran take with him and how far reaching are those who were peripherally involved in helping him with this situation, which may lead all they way to the top.  

As I have said before, get out your popcorn, relax, and enjoy the upcoming show.

[Spock]

Well, I just got caughtup again. Here is how it looks to me.

Joran said he was with Natalee on the beach when she died
Joran said he swam the body out to sea
Joran said he had help with the disposal

Joran might have said he had sex with Natalee
Joran might have said Natalee was in trouble with drugs or alcohol

I am starting to think the tape raises more questions than it answers.

Joran was not qualified, by experience, education, law, or training to pronounce Natalee dead. Overdoses result in extremely feint pulses and respirations, so feint that nurses are not legally allowed to pronounce a patient dead in most states in hospitals, with bright lights, stethescopes, and sober. Koran had no equipment and was heavily intoxicated and on drugs. Thus Natalee was legally alive when he swam her out to dispose of her body, and he did not thus dispose of her body, he drowned her. Last time I checked, that is murder.

Here is my opinion:

In the states and in Aruba, these admissions by Joran, and the long list of false declarations bt Joran, are enough for charges and a trial. There is simply no reason not to try this case now. That's the good news, the negative side is that, although a jury would be likely to convict on homicide and/or disposal, a panel of Judges would not. Judges are generally champions of the rule of law and wont convict even when a jury would.  Furthermore, the situation in Aruba, is that the Judges know Joran and his father well and likely will not convict one of their own.

My hope is that Mos will try the case, and ask for new set of trial judges from the Netherlands that have no connection to MEP or prior relationship with the Sloots. 

[Peaches]

Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo maintain that Natalee used cocaine that night.
(per FBI reports)

Date-rape drug, sexual assault, disposal of body, obstruction of justice still exist.

Might not be a popular discussion, but does anyone give credibility to the fact that Natalee may have used cocaine that same evening? Just wondering...

Kalpoe brothers. What is their involvement? DeVries tape seems to distance them from Joran. They would not be in the position they are in today, if they were not involved in some way. Did Paulus simply explain to them (if they provided the date-rape drug) that the murder could be pinned on them if their silence was not guaranteed. Since the discovery of the body was unlikely to occur, the circumstances surrounding the evening were cloudy, and inside help was at their disposal, Paulus instructed them to remain silent, helped them create smokescreens, and assured them that all would be well in the end?? Thoughts???

I don't think she ever used cocaine knowingly.

It would be tough, for most, to swallow. However, it would not change the fact that a crime was commited against her, regardless. Just wondering what others thought...

I don't care if she tried cocaine.  So what? 
The last one seen with her is a lying POS.  The Dutch need to cut the crap and deal with this out front for all the world to see.  Stop blaming the victim.  It's not pretty.

[Spock]

I also want to add that none of my work with the Aru-Bay videos and the stills I captured has been photoshopped (as was suggested). The only work that was done was screen capture, followed by rotation, and intersity and contrast adjustments. The face that appears in the bag is real, unless the creator of the video went to the effort of shopping the video.

As to whether the bag has any relevance, I don't know, but it is clear that aface of a young lady appears in the bag,

[Buckeye]

Oh please.  This is a drug infested island.  There are programs, in the schools, related to drugs, signs of overdose etc.  All these people know what to do for an overdose.  All kids, in sports, learn CPR and to call for help.  I don't buy for one minute that a person, whose problem was thought of as being an overdose, would not be treated with CPR and a call for help.  Natalee's problem was Joran and he had to get rid of her and any trace of what he did. If she succumbed due to her own volition, he would have left her where she was....unless the problems happened at the house...

[Nut44x4]

So....daddy is talking to people about poor Joran's safety and Joran is staying with Grandma

 

Is she a pistol packin' Granny?

[Nut44x4]

Dear God, I think Greta still does not want to believe the sporter is guilty!!JMO

She really pizzd me off.  She still wants to believe Joran is just an innocent kid.  BS!

...or perhaps she just can't admit she has been made a fool of by the young Golden Boy.

[JA]

Ugh For the record! 

I never suggested they were photoshopped, just threw out some random questions when I revisited the shots yesterday.  I was amazed at how much they looked like a girl with blond hair, and I hadn't seen such a clear pic of them before.  Not being computer proficient, I was more wondering IF something like that could be done.  Like everyone else, I'm just trying to put all these puzzle pieces together.  I think the poster posted that the "clearer" pics were ones that had been turned back into a negative view.

I was also trying to figure out if that was Natalee ( and if not her who???) how does that fit into Joran's latest confession/story?

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning...Interesting posts to read back on.

Tyler...the bathtub....maybe Val needs to tell the truth

Spock...IIRC the judges were bought over from Curacao as they would be impartial...LOL

IMO....There is no way that Joran and one other are involved in this. All the pimps that met at the Racquet Club at least were involved.

There may be one or two out there that we haven't even touched on. I don't believe Aruba is going to let this 'house of cards' fall.

Anyone who believes the Kalpoes are not involved needs to ask why Nadira and Luis were interviewed on June 2nd and why the stepfather was interviewed again on June 28th along with Freddy and Lorenzo, whatever his last name really is! Somehow Luis acquired the Internet Cafe....

[mrskub]

Did anyone notice on this clip at the 1:00 mark, Geraldo states "They got a kid to befriend Joran Van der Sloot" and that they had met at a casino? JvdS has stated to the effect that he was impressed with this person and that he (the friend)had enough money of his own. Sounds logical to me that he would be impressed by a young gambler, given his history at the casinos, and want to befriend him.

[mrskub]

Sorry, forgot the link to the clip

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M-rbeKiZe6I

[MumInOhio]

Ugh For the record! 

I never suggested they were photoshopped, just threw out some random questions when I revisited the shots yesterday.  I was amazed at how much they looked like a girl with blond hair, and I hadn't seen such a clear pic of them before.  Not being computer proficient, I was more wondering IF something like that could be done.  Like everyone else, I'm just trying to put all these puzzle pieces together.  I think the poster posted that the "clearer" pics were ones that had been turned back into a negative view.

I was also trying to figure out if that was Natalee ( and if not her who???) how does that fit into Joran's latest confession/story?

Hi JA...I understood what you posted. I think Blonde posted them yesterday and these are the only ones that I can make anything of.

[Spock]

These rocks that were painted are close to the lighthouse and the beach, and not far from where Deepak sayys he parked the car to relieve himself. This is also the area, Dave observed the police putting something in the trunk of a car.  What I find interesting is that the area was taped off as a crime scene, two detectives and two technicians were there. Also interesting the vehicle they drove up in was the same one used by the visibility team (aka Cromvoight and GVC).

[Dayhiker]

Quote  form phone interview:

question: Have you had contact with the boy that might have moved the body of Natalee?

"Joran: Yes, no, that's just a boy I met on Aruba, just now, when I was there,

question: Did you speak to him?

Joran: But now I just met him. Yes, I don't know, it has to do with that person, that after two and a half years with that person, that's not possible
(Joran talks in half sentences here) "


There is another translation that has him saying "do you think it's possible for him to not  talk in 2.5 years?"


If he just met the guy, why is he saying the guy was quiet  for  2.5  years?   Also, it sounds as if he feels  he is the  only one to be able to  keep this to himself, that  no one could possibly think he is  guilty since he  hasn't talked.   I  noticed when he was  released  from jail,  he was very proud of  himself for not speaking all that time under pressure.  Like a true  psychopath, he has all these  accomplishments,  but cannot  share them  with  anyone!

You can see him trying to spin this asnd getting tripped up in his mind. Is it possible this is Steve Croes who he has denied knowing in the past. I tend to lean to him using the Gottenboat but let's remember that Steve C. knew Deepak and had access to a small boat as well. This could be why Deepak has been tight-lipped. Steve also made that false witness statement and there is that pesky call from a van der Sloot phone at 6:30 am that Paulus can't quite remember whether he made or not.

[JA]

Would this somehow fit into the story? 

At one point in the evening Joran has Natalee at the house where she is injured, unconscious, or he has just brought her back there to rape her.  Paulus is aware that she is there whether after she becomes in a "bad" way, or before.  Joran seeks out Dada's help because he doesn't know what to do with her at this point.  He wants her back at the hotel to catch her plane in the morning so she can be like the other 2O times. 

Paulus suggests that he just put her on the beach and forget about her because she'l come to and then it isn't Joran's problem.  Some how Joran gets her back to the beach ( Kalpoes?) and Joran finds out she is either dead or he thinks she is dead, so he calls up Papa and asks what he should do now?  Paulus suggests the Gottenbos because he possibly knew they were already out in the boat etc.

Kalpoes are brought back intot he story because Paulus tels them of the trouble they will be in because they helped plan drugging her, as well as transporting her etc, so they lie for the Sloots.