Caylee Marie Anthony- MURDER TRIAL- DAY 16 - 6/11 - 6/12/2011

[SunnyinTX]

well, except that, by all accounts, Casey and JP did not meet until spring of 2008. 
I am remembering that LE released a statement in the fall of 2008 stating that they knew the identity of Caylee's father and that it was not relevant to the case, and would say no more on the subject. 

ummmm do you have a link for that? I do not remember ever hearing that....and I think that might be something I would remember. In the opening statement Jeff said the state did NOT know the identify of Caylee's father.

I remember Michael Baden talking about it. I won't believe anything unless it comes from the prosecution.
http://stephww.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/breaking-will-the-father-of-caylee-anthony-be-revealed-and-will-he-be-key-witness/
 ::snipping2::
Last night Linda Kenney Baden, one of Casey Anthony’s defense attorneys, joined me as a guest on my radio show. Also joining me was her husband — renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden. Near the end of the show, I asked Linda a question that had been on my mind for a while about the Casey Anthony case. I wanted to know her thoughts on whether the defense team or prosecutors had an interest in who the father of little Caylee Anthony is? And, if so, would this person testify at trial? She paused and said, “That’s a question to ask the prosecutors.” Then Dr. Baden jumped in saying he could answer the question because he’s not involved in the case. He said they ABSOLUTLEY know who the father is, through forensics, and that we will more than likely hear from this person at trial (IF he is alive and able to testify).
 ::snipping2::

I knew Baden said it, I think LP also said the same thing......but I never heard anything like that from LE. and I wouldn't believe Baden or Padilla 

[MuffyBee]

Hi monkeys!
I don't know about all of you but since the trial started i am having nightmares..i wonder if the jurors are experienced the same

I haven't had any nightmares but I have had several dreams involving law enforcement, courtrooms, babies, relatives/friends in trouble, etc...things I don't normally dream about.  No doubt these dreams are due to daily exposure of this case since it went to trial.

Then you can imagine what some of the jurors must be experiencing::MonkeyNoNo:
Edit to change blue color to black.  Please post in black, colors are hard on some of our Monkeys eyes.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8844.msg1251553#msg1251553
See Forum Rule #12 Thanks.  MB

Bumping this up so you don't miss it _icey_.  Muffy

[numbersgirl]

If CA choked KC on 6/15 causing KC to rage against Caylee, does that discount the claim of "premeditation" and move it more toward a claim of "crime of passion"?   

[TURBOTHINK]

I have NO sympathy for them because if they had told the exact truth in the beginning they might have found that baby and KNOWN how KC killed her. Instead they let her come home and take back over their house never ONCE trying to make her tell them. The ONLY reason someone would not make her tell would be because they ALREADY KNEW.

Turbo..all due respect, but I don't believe one person can make another person tell them anything they don't want to say..short of torture or threatening their life.  We aren't talking about Casey being a normal person ..we are talking about a very cunning lying sociopath who short of being throttled by her family or the cops was not going to..and even until this day with the DP staring her in the face..still has not told the truth.

When Casey first was released from jail George started to go at her and was held back by his friend from Ohio.  It has been stated by you, that Cindy went after Casey the night of the 15th.  Once  LE were called, either of her parents laying a finger on her would have been grounds for their arrest for battery and assualt.  And personally..she would have loved that..and still would not have told the truth.

And can someone kindly point out to me how anything GA and CA said stopped LE from getting the truth out of Casey?  

Do you honestly believe that George and Cindy were in on this somehow and knew what Casey had done and where Caylee was from the beginning/  Because unless you do the fact of anything they said having anything to do with finding Caylee makes no sense.

I don't believe they knew where she was, but they knew she was what they smelled in that car. They KNEW to call the police when they smelled that car. Instead they "hid" it in their garage. Does that make any sense to you? Put a car the reeked of decomp inside your garage? They said they took the battery out of it to keep KC from taking it, why not do that OUTSIDE? If they really didn't know it was decomp they would have left it outside to air out, not put it in their garage where they could HIDE what they took out of it and clean it all out without any of the neighbors seeing them do it. What were they hiding? Did they think KC killed someone else? I never have figured out what Lee meant when he said "is this like the last time?"

They knew they had a daughter who lied every time her mouth moved but yet Cindy asks her "What have you done?" like she would tell her the truth. Then Cindy says BEFORE anything has been said about a kidnapping "Who took her?"

Grab this scenario - when the police arrive Cindy & George tell them the truth about there was no zanny and not make up lies that they had phone books with her numbers - they knew there wasn't they had never seen her or talked to her. George knew KC wasn't working so why not tell that? He said that in his depo.  Why not tel theml KC lied about everything so they should not allow her to leave until she told them the truth? Why not tell them the blankets were gone off Caylee's bed and so was other things from the house. Why not George tell the truth about the last time he saw them which most likely was days before. Why lie about seeing them the 16th when they were calling KC from their house at 7:45 in the morning?  Why all the lies and the anger at people when they asked questions about KC on TV? Why not just say she is a lying witch and we don't know what to believe because all that is out there now. Did they really think they could get her off from killing Caylee? Why even try to bond her out of jail? Mine would have sat there if the bond was 100.00. WHY in the world let her come to their house and take over while out on bond? NO ONE confronted her about where Caylee was according to all the witnesses. When send the police on wild goose chases insinuating other people like Jesse did it? Why give LE the wrong toothbrush and hairbrush and then laugh about it? A DEAD CAYLEE WAS NO LAUGHING MATTER, but did Cindy really want her found - H*ll no............they wanted to continue to run their scams and buy bass boats instead of hunting her.

If I were Cindy I would have acquired some thiopental sodium from my office and used it on KC to find out where my granddaughter was "IF" I really believed she was missing.

I just see them as willing participants in the whole thing because they were collecting thousands of dollars in money and gifts and instead of telling the truth they continued the LIES to not only LE but to the nation on national TV to cover for KC and promote their foundation which they used for income. Cindy no more needs to be on disability than I do, but she is claiming disability and WE THE TAXPAYERS are paying it for her just like we are paying for this stupid farce of a trial. I hope their few minutes of face time on TV to promote themselves will be the end of them when this trial is over, but I am sure they will figure out another scheme to make BLOOD MONEY off that poor baby. The need to both be locked up in a mental ward for the rest of their lives for the damage they have done to many people in this because if they are not just mean, they are definitely MENTAL.

[Gypsy DD]

Jean Couty depo - the neighbor that heard the Anthony fight.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5688720/Casey-Anthony-Neighbor-Jean-Couty-transcript

Thank you Carpe.

Jean Couty's deposition affirms Lee's words to Tony regarding a dispute between Cindy and Casey on the evening of June 15, 2008.

Cindy claimed in court testimony that the evening of June 15, 2008 was a special evening with Casey and Caylee.  It was a bonding time.

It is said that lies are created to cover up the truth.  Why was Cindy willing to lie under oath regarding the fight with Casey.  What truth was she attempting to covering up?

Janet

Actually, Mr. Couty said he witnessed 2 arguments, both occurred on weekends. The first one he thought was at the end of May and when further questioned about the second onem he thought it was about a month before the police activity started at the Anthony's. He also stated that he didn't want to say anything that he could not confirm.   

So we still don't know if a fight occurred on June 15 or not, by his account.  We are still assuming and until Lee or Cindy testifies it did happen, that's all we can do at this point. 

Several pages back  I posted a link to Casey's cell phone pings, which show where she was on the night of the 15th.  She had no phone activity for 38 minutes from 9:26:59 - 10:05:55.   This could account for the time the fight occurred, but it would be a little late for Mr. Couey to be out doing yard work.  He also stated that Casey left in her car alone.

 

Right..I remember there was speculation there was also an argument the weekend prior between Casey and Cindy...which many people thought was why they had the wrong dates initially.

But I think that the argument may come into the picture if they put Shirley on the stand to testify about notifying Cindy about the checks missing from Mr Pleasa's account to be used for the nursing home.  Cindy could say they argued and give the reason..but Jose will object as heresay to the check business part of it unless Mrs Pleasa has already testified to the check theft herself. 

[TURBOTHINK]

If CA choked KC on 6/15 causing KC to rage against Caylee, does that discount the claim of "premeditation" and move it more toward a claim of "crime of passion"?  

Could - it could also mean she just killed her earlier than planned. My thoughts have been that she was going to do away with GA & CA first because she kept telling everyone she was moving in their house and they were moving out, then Caylee if necessary. It might not have been necessary to do away with Caylee if Cindy was dead and the child was not telling Cindy what was going on.

[Aurelia7]

IBE,
why do you have sympathy for Kc?  I'm just wondering, because I can't manage any at all.  She justs makes me sick.

She makes me sick as well, but I can (sort of) see how one might, as I personally feel just a micro-tad sorry for anyone who has commited a crime due to mental instability or personality disorders.  In Casey's case it would seem that she's definitely affected by some disorder (bi-polar perhaps?) and so my only sympathy is that she didn't get professional medical help and as a result she committed a horrible crime and destroyed the lives of many.  To be clear:  I DO NOT like CA.  I don't feel sorry for her because she's on trial, or that she's been in jail or that she will be in prison for life.  But I do sympathize for the fact that she's messed up in the head, as no one asks for that affliction.  And I sympathize for the fact that (to my knowledge) she never sought help for the obvious mental disorder that brought this whole thing about.  If only she had consulted a doctor about her mental illness/personality disorder.  If only someone had said, "Hey, you're mentally unstable and I think you need help!" -- IF ONLY!...then precious little Caylee would still be alive.

(I sure hope I explained that correctly, as I don't want anyone here to think that I am pro-Casey.  I'm not.  It's just that I always look at everything from both sides and simply wanted to offer another viewpoint.)

[TURBOTHINK]

June 16, 2008

7:45 am Call from Anthony home leaves voicemail on KC's cell
7:45 am KC calls voicemail

This tells us that KC was not at home and either Cindy or George was trying to get in touch with her at that time.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32280682/Casey-Anthonys-ATandT-Cell-Phone-Pings   page 16

Maybe she wasn't.  If you look at the pings, they are all from the same place, except those 2 calls. Info has been removed from the chart, but the last column has different numbers under E164.  Now we know that Cindy called her and then Casey retrieved the message.  Both those calls show the same number under E164.  The next call after that is at 8:46:34, then 11:43:12 and those are made from the house and she is on the phone almost continuously. The ping numbers remain the same until 2:11:45.

So it appears that Casey did not leave the house until just after 2:00.

There is one hour of silence that morning.

The problem with that is that vacant house and Lee's house all ping off the same towers, so she may never have been at the Anthony's house at all that day until George left.

[Gypsy DD]

I have NO sympathy for them because if they had told the exact truth in the beginning they might have found that baby and KNOWN how KC killed her. Instead they let her come home and take back over their house never ONCE trying to make her tell them. The ONLY reason someone would not make her tell would be because they ALREADY KNEW.

Turbo..all due respect, but I don't believe one person can make another person tell them anything they don't want to say..short of torture or threatening their life.  We aren't talking about Casey being a normal person ..we are talking about a very cunning lying sociopath who short of being throttled by her family or the cops was not going to..and even until this day with the DP staring her in the face..still has not told the truth.

When Casey first was released from jail George started to go at her and was held back by his friend from Ohio.  It has been stated by you, that Cindy went after Casey the night of the 15th.  Once  LE were called, either of her parents laying a finger on her would have been grounds for their arrest for battery and assualt.  And personally..she would have loved that..and still would not have told the truth.

And can someone kindly point out to me how anything GA and CA said stopped LE from getting the truth out of Casey?  

Do you honestly believe that George and Cindy were in on this somehow and knew what Casey had done and where Caylee was from the beginning/  Because unless you do the fact of anything they said having anything to do with finding Caylee makes no sense.

I don't believe they knew where she was, but they knew she was what they smelled in that car. They KNEW to call the police when they smelled that car. Instead they "hid" it in their garage. Does that make any sense to you? Put a car the reeked of decomp inside your garage? They said they took the battery out of it to keep KC from taking it, why not do that OUTSIDE? If they really didn't know it was decomp they would have left it outside to air out, not put it in their garage where they could HIDE what they took out of it and clean it all out without any of the neighbors seeing them do it. What were they hiding? Did they think KC killed someone else? I never have figured out what Lee meant when he said "is this like the last time?"

They knew they had a daughter who lied every time her mouth moved but yet Cindy asks her "What have you done?" like she would tell her the truth. Then Cindy says BEFORE anything has been said about a kidnapping "Who took her?"

Grab this scenario - when the police arrive Cindy & George tell them the truth about there was no zanny and not make up lies that they had phone books with her numbers - they knew there wasn't they had never seen her or talked to her. George knew KC wasn't working so why not tell that? He said that in his depo.  Why not tel theml KC lied about everything so they should not allow her to leave until she told them the truth? Why not tell them the blankets were gone off Caylee's bed and so was other things from the house. Why not George tell the truth about the last time he saw them which most likely was days before. Why lie about seeing them the 16th when they were calling KC from their house at 7:45 in the morning?  Why all the lies and the anger at people when they asked questions about KC on TV? Why not just say she is a lying witch and we don't know what to believe because all that is out there now. Did they really think they could get her off from killing Caylee? Why even try to bond her out of jail? Mine would have sat there if the bond was 100.00. WHY in the world let her come to their house and take over while out on bond? NO ONE confronted her about where Caylee was according to all the witnesses. When send the police on wild goose chases insinuating other people like Jesse did it? Why give LE the wrong toothbrush and hairbrush and then laugh about it? A DEAD CAYLEE WAS NO LAUGHING MATTER, but did Cindy really want her found - H*ll no............they wanted to continue to run their scams and buy bass boats instead of hunting her.

If I were Cindy I would have acquired some thiopental sodium from my office and used it on KC to find out where my granddaughter was "IF" I really believed she was missing.

I just see them as willing participants in the whole thing because they were collecting thousands of dollars in money and gifts and instead of telling the truth they continued the LIES to not only LE but to the nation on national TV to cover for KC and promote their foundation which they used for income. Cindy no more needs to be on disability than I do, but she is claiming disability and WE THE TAXPAYERS are paying it for her just like we are paying for this stupid farce of a trial. I hope their few minutes of face time on TV to promote themselves will be the end of them when this trial is over, but I am sure they will figure out another scheme to make BLOOD MONEY off that poor baby. The need to both be locked up in a mental ward for the rest of their lives for the damage they have done to many people in this because if they are not just mean, they are definitely MENTAL.

And I agree with the part that they lied...I agree they could have been more forthcoming...I agree that they used the media and the public..and they are beyond odious.

I do not agree that it would have changed the course of the investigation or helped find Caylee's body any sooner.  Except in the case of if Dom Casey had found the body in November..if he had..I think that Cindy and George would have reported the find..but just as Jose is doing now, pointed the finger elsewhere.

I do not believe for one second LE allowed them to change the course of the investigation because they knew they were lying.

[TURBOTHINK]

IBE,
why do you have sympathy for Kc?  I'm just wondering, because I can't manage any at all.  She justs makes me sick.

She makes me sick as well, but I can (sort of) see how one might, as I personally feel just a micro-tad sorry for anyone who has commited a crime due to mental instability or personality disorders.  In Casey's case it would seem that she's definitely affected by some disorder (bi-polar perhaps?) and so my only sympathy is that she didn't get professional medical help and as a result she committed a horrible crime and destroyed the lives of many.  To be clear:  I DO NOT like CA.  I don't feel sorry for her because she's on trial, or that she's been in jail or that she will be in prison for life.  But I do sympathize for the fact that she's messed up in the head, as no one asks for that affliction.  And I sympathize for the fact that (to my knowledge) she never sought help for the obvious mental disorder that brought this whole thing about.  If only she had consulted a doctor about her mental illness/personality disorder.  If only someone had said, "Hey, you're mentally unstable and I think you need help!" -- IF ONLY!...then precious little Caylee would still be alive.

(I sure hope I explained that correctly, as I don't want anyone here to think that I am pro-Casey.  I'm not.  It's just that I always look at everything from both sides and simply wanted to offer another viewpoint.)

George told Jesse that she had some mental problems long before Caylee was killed. It was the night Jesse called the ambulance for her having the seizures at his house. I still think meth, but so far that medical report has not been released. Maybe it will when he testifies.

[numbersgirl]

If CA choked KC on 6/15 causing KC to rage against Caylee, does that discount the claim of "premeditation" and move it more toward a claim of "crime of passion"?   

Could - it could also mean she just killed her earlier than planned. My thoughts have been that she was going to do away with GA & CA first because she kept telling everyone she was moving in their house and they were moving out, then Caylee if necessary. It might not have been necessary to do away with Caylee if Cindy was dead and the child was not telling Cindy what was going on.

ITA, Turbo.  I've always thought her internet searches were about killing her parents, not her daughter.   

[Tamikosmom]

June 16, 2008

7:45 am Call from Anthony home leaves voicemail on KC's cell
7:45 am KC calls voicemail

This tells us that KC was not at home and either Cindy or George was trying to get in touch with her at that time.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32280682/Casey-Anthonys-ATandT-Cell-Phone-Pings   page 16

Maybe she wasn't.  If you look at the pings, they are all from the same place, except those 2 calls. Info has been removed from the chart, but the last column has different numbers under E164.  Now we know that Cindy called her and then Casey retrieved the message.  Both those calls show the same number under E164.  The next call after that is at 8:46:34, then 11:43:12 and those are made from the house and she is on the phone almost continuously. The ping numbers remain the same until 2:11:45.

So it appears that Casey did not leave the house until just after 2:00.

There is one hour of silence that morning.

Records indicate that Casey was on the desktop from 1:00 PM - 3:00 PM on the afternoon of June 16, 2008. Where is the desktop located?

Janet

++++

In the computer room, which is next to Casey's bedroom on the front of the house....computer room is in the far right corner when facing the front of the house.  I'll look for a floor plan image.

Thanks.

The implication is that Casey did not leave the house at 1:00 PM as George claimed.

Janet

+++

Exclusive: Grandparents of Missing Toddler 'On the Record'
Wednesday, August 06, 2008

<snipped>

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So the 15th is Sunday, Father's Day. Everything's normal, everything's fine. The next morning is the last day that either you or George saw her. Do you remember about what time of day it was?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, specifically. I remember it was 10 minutes to 1:00 on Monday the 16th.

<snipped>

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html


The Murder trial of Casey Anthony: Timeline and Evidence
Updated 10/19/09

Timeline for June 16 to June 20 2008

<snipped>

7:00-9:00 am high user activity on desktop
 
9:00-10:00 am no activity on HP desktop
 
10:00-noon high user activity on desktop

12:00 noon-1:00 pm no activity on HP desktop.  No activity on laptop.
 
1:00-3:00 pm high user activity on desktop.

3:00-4:00 pm no activity on laptop.
 
3:00-11:00 pm no activity on HP desktop.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread431159/pg1

[cookie]

the thing is, if it's not documented, it didn't happen- re: choking.

Did Casey have any bruising or marks in any of the photos of her?

Like it's been stated before, Casey would have loved to take Cindy or George down with her.  If she filed a police report on the choking, Cindy would have been in jail.

love your avvi...

[TURBOTHINK]

And I agree with the part that they lied...I agree they could have been more forthcoming...I agree that they used the media and the public..and they are beyond odious.

I do not agree that it would have changed the course of the investigation or helped find Caylee's body any sooner.  Except in the case of if Dom Casey had found the body in November..if he had..I think that Cindy and George would have reported the find..but just as Jose is doing now, pointed the finger elsewhere.

I do not believe for one second LE allowed them to change the course of the investigation because they knew they were lying.

It may not have changed the investigation but all the wild goose chases they sent LE on had to delay the investigations and cost taxpayers a lot of money. The one thing I do know is Caylee might have still been alive if they had held KC accountable for all the lies from the beginning and not let her hold them and that baby hostage. When George found the stolen 4000+ dollars KC stole on his car sale, he should never have let Cindy take it over and done nothing. If they had her arrested ANY of the times she stole from them, she have been rehabilitated by now and they would have had Caylee alive. Cindy was never serious about taking Caylee or she would have had KC arrested years ago and taken her.

[cookie]

Good morning everyone , I don't post much but I have been trying to figure out who Caylee's father is since this all started. I have had several theories in the past but when I saw Jeff Hopkins on the stand the other day it just amazed me how much she kind of favors him. Did any of you insightful monkeys have the same thoughts?

 I agree she killed Caylee the night (June 16th) she and her mom had the big fight. Has anyone heard that she told her mother that night she would never see Caylee again? A caller on NG mentioned it but I had not heard that before. I do believe that she killed Caylee to get back at her mother.

I don't really see the resemblance

If Caylee resembled any of KC's friends, it was JP Chatt.   

 He was always the one I thought could be but Amy said he didn't like Casey
I started a thread who's the daddy three years ago under the Casey Anthony stuff

JP does look like Caylee!

[carpe noctem]

How could anyone not think that destruction of evidence would hinder law enforcement and cost investigators more valuable time?

This would lengthen the investigation, would it not? It certainly didn't help.

I guess it would it all depend on if you think Cindy & George were in denial... or if they lied.

I pick lied... nobody could be so stupid as many times in a row as they have.

I think they will burn in hell for what they have done. (they already live in it, actually)

History will be most unkind to all of them.

[Aurelia7]

You guys are falling right into Bozo and Casey's hands, creating reasonable doubt.  There is absolutely NO comparison to the OJ case and if the OJ had been done today he would have been convicted.  DNA evidence was "new" back then. 

  there is no reasonable doubt in this case at all. the jury are instructed to not leave their common sense at the door

There shouldn't be, but there might be, based on this:

(BBM)

None of us know exactly how, when, where or using what measures Casey murdered Caylee.

We know she is responsible.

We know duct tape was involved.

We know choloform was in the trunk air in ridiculous levels.

We know Caylee's body was in the trunk.

We know the little body was found in the woods on Suburban DR after being there for many months.

Despite not having a smoking gun, I think the prosecution is doing an amazing job and I feel confident that the jury will convict.  They'd have to be idiots not to!  So what if the evidence is circumstantial?  Everything points to CA.  EVERYTHING.  And what's sickening to watch that "hopeful" look CA occasionally gets on her face, like she seriously thinks she may get away with what she did.  Sorry, girl...you're going to have to pay.

[Gypsy DD]

If CA choked KC on 6/15 causing KC to rage against Caylee, does that discount the claim of "premeditation" and move it more toward a claim of "crime of passion"?  

Could - it could also mean she just killed her earlier than planned. My thoughts have been that she was going to do away with GA & CA first because she kept telling everyone she was moving in their house and they were moving out, then Caylee if necessary. It might not have been necessary to do away with Caylee if Cindy was dead and the child was not telling Cindy what was going on.

No it can not ever be called a crime of passion in tis case ..no matter if the argument was ten minutes before.

Crimes of passion are considered to happen instantly..no time lag.

Once there is a time lag ..then it is considered premeditated..as in they had time to consider doing it, then did it..and that time can be very short.  In a crime of passion it happens instantly with to time to think, no time to consider the outcome, no time cool off.  It has been said that premeditation can take as short of a time as less then a minute..meaning in a minute you know what you are about to do and have time to think you are going to do it..not an action without thinking.

This time lag is months long..between the time she considered murdering someone (March)..the computer searches..and the time she murdered Caylee (June). 

[Gypsy DD]

You guys are falling right into Bozo and Casey's hands, creating reasonable doubt.  There is absolutely NO comparison to the OJ case and if the OJ had been done today he would have been convicted.  DNA evidence was "new" back then. 

  there is no reasonable doubt in this case at all. the jury are instructed to not leave their common sense at the door

There shouldn't be, but there might be, based on this:

(BBM)

None of us know exactly how, when, where or using what measures Casey murdered Caylee.

We know she is responsible.

We know duct tape was involved.

We know choloform was in the trunk air in ridiculous levels.

We know Caylee's body was in the trunk.

We know the little body was found in the woods on Suburban DR after being there for many months.

Despite not having a smoking gun, I think the prosecution is doing an amazing job and I feel confident that the jury will convict.  They'd have to be idiots not to!  So what if the evidence is circumstantial?  Everything points to CA.  EVERYTHING.  And what's sickening to watch that "hopeful" look CA occasionally gets on her face, like she seriously thinks she may get away with what she did.  Sorry, girl...you're going to have to pay.

None of the things I listed point to reasonable doubt to me at all.  They point to a planned murder that took place..and the disposal which appears to have taken place days later. 

Plenty of the time had passed for the murdering party to have fussed up to an accident and taken her punishment if that would have been the case. 

The jury will not doubt that Casey did this...they may not know how..but I don't believe they will be left with any doubt that she is guilty.

[Gypsy DD]

How could anyone not think that destruction of evidence would hinder law enforcement and cost investigators more valuable time?

This would lengthen the investigation, would it not? It certainly didn't help.

I guess it would it all depend on if you think Cindy & George were in denial... or if they lied.

I pick lied... nobody could be so stupid as many times in a row as they have.

I think they will burn in hell for what they have done. (they already live in it, actually)

History will be most unkind to all of them.

I think that LE knowing what they were up against with the A's made sure they didn't hinder the investigation...and LE was a lot smarter then the A's.

The only evidence I know of they destroyed was the cleaning of the car..and I do think that was denial at first.  And everyone knows you can't wash away what they were trying to wash away...Cindy would have known that.

The hairbrush incident was useless..because of course LE was going to examine all the hairs they found on that brush for a sample of Caylee's..not just one..so LE knew that other family members used that hairbrush as well.  Just like they knew the one trunk hair with the rootband belonged to Caylee..a female family member..Caylee being the only one not deceased.

I think they are living in hell now..and the rest of their lives..living without the grandchild they adored.  Knowing that their daughter did this, by herself..no accident..no help...and that she will more then likely be put to death or spend the rest of her days in prison.

But do I think they have learned anything about how odious we find them making money off Caylee's death..no I don't think they realize that part yet.  I believe Cindy will write a book of her own..I don't think she gets it yet how odious they appear in that respect.