Lively Case Discussion #529 10/2 - 10/7/2006

[Kat_Gram]

I agree. We heard enuf from him. Want to see what he has to say ?
Go to the Skeeters tape. Don't wait for the movie about a rat faced Surniman boy who just lied for his friend. His friend tried to implicate him and now his friend has the Dutch blondie girlfriends, while Deepak has his imagination and the internet porn sites.

KatGram,
Skeeters has never released his tapes for us to go to.  As far as I know, no one has heard his actual original or even copies of that yet.  It was being authenticated and then we heard that it had been but we do not have any actual copies.

So we can't go to Skeeters tapes, we don't have them to go to.
There is a version on a site. Don't know how accurate
because there is only one sentence or two that ppl are interested in, but the rest of it, it's pretty close. And, Dave has a copy from Skeeters and if there was EVIDENCE on it, it would have been made available somewhere.

[Anna]

.
Someone posted last night CCroes referring to Beth as a grieving mother that first night.  So why would she be described as such with Natalee only missing a few hours unless he knew what had happened to her at that point?

AZLADY,
I agree and I really don't believe he does not remember if A.G. Leo was with him or not just as I cannot really believe Jug Twitty said all those things or pushed Julia Renfro for that matter.  

Like Dompig, this has become all about Charlie to Charles Croes.  You'd think that any inconvenience he has suffered is on par with losing a child from his rant.  Worse, even!  Someone dared question the integrity of the investigation?  Well, they certainly had every right to do so.  Yes, this has just been so hard on not Natalee and not her parents but Arubans!!  

WoW!  That is major messed up!

What on earth is wrong with these people?  Does this come of too many having the same last names and inter-marrying too closely for too long?

.

[AZLady]

I'm with you, Buckeye.  Charles really resents that the death of a young innocent girl intruded on his Nirvana.  The nerve!  And this man thinks we should take him seriously?  Yeah, right.

[Shell]

Mr C

Natalee was beautiful.
She was manipulated to get into that car.
Her parents have a strong backing, money, the right connections. To criticize them smacks of sour grapes to me.

If Jug wanted to end the day by a drink, who are you to be critical?
Not once did Mr. C say the ALE could have possibly played favorites or made mistakes.
(I am steamed at a lot of the comments, just replying off the top of my head after reading Grande's post.)

[Buckeye]

Anna, I'd put my money on Freddy to blab his heart out, especially when he offered immunity and protection in Florida with his big bro.  Freddy will put that island behind him in a minute to share his brother's life in the US and the VDS crew are going down.

Don't know.  Freddy's tickle site came down pretty fast.  I believe he is the video magician with the brother porn link.  I believe the early rumors that Freddy was at Joran's that night.....maybe the Max Arends in Florida??

[terryd270]

I think one thing I have learned from that island is not to trust anyone, they all have hidden agenda's..  None of those people helped Beth and Jug when they needed a friend.. They all escaped from some mental health ward and they are all off their meds..  Your either a con man or one of the shills if you live in that cess pool.. Let them all rot on that island of make believe paradise..

[AZLady]

Anna, that must be it.  I know that all that inter-marrying produces genetic problems.  I think the hot sun must have fried Charles' brain, to boot.

[Kat_Gram]

Next time, just submit some direct questions to Croes.
Did.. blah  blah  blah  ?                  
Yes X.........X  OR    No X........X
Please indicate your repsonse in the appropriate space with your
unsharpened crayon, Chuckie.
.
No wonder we never know what they said ! !

[terryd270]

Good nite,  unbelievable..

[Anna]

[There is a version on a site. Don't know how accurate
because there is only one sentence or two that ppl are interested in, but the rest of it, it's pretty close. And, Dave has a copy from Skeeters and if there was EVIDENCE on it, it would have been made available somewhere.

No, thanks.  

No, I don't think there is direct evidence but he does supposedly say things like if he knew where Natalee was buried he would have told long ago which is maybe evidence of a very indirect sort.  That copy on that site is one of the ones that passed through ALE hands and sounds like Deepak doing a voice over to me and I do not trust that source at all.  At least at that time, he was a total Joran supporter.  ALE's copy does not sound like the others I heard at all.

Just about all of the things we discuss fall short of being evidence for obviously we don't have any of that and there well may not be any in existence now.

.

[AZLady]

Anna, I'd put my money on Freddy to blab his heart out, especially when he offered immunity and protection in Florida with his big bro.  Freddy will put that island behind him in a minute to share his brother's life in the US and the VDS crew are going down.

Don't know.  Freddy's tickle site came down pretty fast.  I believe he is the video magician with the brother porn link.  I believe the early rumors that Freddy was at Joran's that night.....maybe the Max Arends in Florida??

Buckeye, think about it.  The witness has to have been there to be a credible and valid witness.  I think Freddy was there, too.  But if he was behind the camera, then there is no evidence that Freddy actually raped or killed Natalee.  Thus, who better to make a deal with than someone who witnessed the attack but did not actually participate?  Freddy has money and family in the US.  If this comes down and all the suspects are rounded up, who is going to blab and cry and spill his guts to save himself?  The guy who saw the crime and has the resources to buy US lawyers to defend him.  The guy who was behind the camera.

[Shell]

How did Mr C just happen to know where to pull off on the beach and ask about the silver car? He knows plenty that goes on in Aruba. Not saying he knows squat about Natalee, just saying I feel like he knows a lot about the ugly side of the Island, the players. If he doesn't, then he needs to quit acting like he does.

[Buckeye]

I think the island spokespeople always criticize the drinks after searching the choller houses, landfills and other trashed and desert areas because the Americans were not supporting the drug pushers around the hotels.  I heard the price of whatever Charles and Julia and the rest had been smoking went up because of no buyers those months (maybe that is just a rumor....).  A stawberry daiqueria or glass of wine in the heat would serve my purposes, especially if I knew the next day would bring more of the same... with no help.  How depressing.  Night all.

[Anna]

Rika's birthday is May 28th which would have been on a Saturday in 2005 and the day before Natalee Holloway was at C&C's.  She was turning 13 - becoming a teenager.  She and Natalie and Val were very good friends and I am sure she had a big party.  I see, from Natalie's on-line diary, that is a common practice to get a hotel room for a birthday bash even for kids this young.   Maybe the party lasted all weekend and was held in a room at the Renaissance Resort and Casino.  Maybe this is important.

Didn't Melody mention something about a party that Friday night and the movies (that she saw Joran after...with her new boyfriend ...and he was sad) Sat night??

Yes, she did Buckeye, and kept going on about it HAD to have been on that date and this was how she knew it was the date she saw Joran who was all sad because he was not with her.  Or something.

And I understood her at the time to claim Freddy spent THAT night, the one when Natalee disappeared at Joran's.

Was that YOUR take on what she said as well?  

.

[Buckeye]

Anna, I'd put my money on Freddy to blab his heart out, especially when he offered immunity and protection in Florida with his big bro.  Freddy will put that island behind him in a minute to share his brother's life in the US and the VDS crew are going down.

Don't know.  Freddy's tickle site came down pretty fast.  I believe he is the video magician with the brother porn link.  I believe the early rumors that Freddy was at Joran's that night.....maybe the Max Arends in Florida??

Buckeye, think about it.  The witness has to have been there to be a credible and valid witness.  I think Freddy was there, too.  But if he was behind the camera, then there is no evidence that Freddy actually raped or killed Natalee.  Thus, who better to make a deal with than someone who witnessed the attack but did not actually participate?  Freddy has money and family in the US.  If this comes down and all the suspects are rounded up, who is going to blab and cry and spill his guts to save himself?  The guy who saw the crime and has the resources to buy US lawyers to defend him.  The guy who was behind the camera.

Then...Paulus and the elders would have to have done the cleanup without Freddy around??  I just think Freddy participated...he's been on the previous trips...maybe someone held the camera when he took a turn.  He would be turning on himself...IMO

[Anna]

Grande,
If you are still here, what did you make of all this blather from Croes?    Why do you think he is attacking the victim and her family like this?

.

[Buckeye]

Rika's birthday is May 28th which would have been on a Saturday in 2005 and the day before Natalee Holloway was at C&C's.  She was turning 13 - becoming a teenager.  She and Natalie and Val were very good friends and I am sure she had a big party.  I see, from Natalie's on-line diary, that is a common practice to get a hotel room for a birthday bash even for kids this young.   Maybe the party lasted all weekend and was held in a room at the Renaissance Resort and Casino.  Maybe this is important.

Didn't Melody mention something about a party that Friday night and the movies (that she saw Joran after...with her new boyfriend ...and he was sad) Sat night??

Yes, she did Buckeye, and kept going on about it HAD to have been on that date and this was how she knew it was the date she saw Joran who was all sad because he was not with her.  Or something.

And I understood her at the time to claim Freddy spent THAT night, the one when Natalee disappeared at Joran's.

Was that YOUR take on what she said as well?  

.

I remember it like that too....then later it got twisted to Koen...then Freddy in Florida...then Koen in Florida....but the first name was Freddy...and he seems to live there...and told the truth to Anita (maybe his surrogate mom??)....

and the early rumors of Natalee trying to climb the gate and falling....

[Buckeye]

Really going now...look at the time...

Thanks all.......

[AZLady]

Anna, I remember that too.  She saw Joran on Saturday night, saying he looked sad.  She said Freddy spend the night at Joran's on Sunday night.  I remember because I found it odd that Joran would go out to C & C's with the Kalpoes at midnight if Freddy was spending the night.  Not much night left to see your houseguest, but I suppose they host overnight guests differently in Aruba.

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys. Just popped in to catch up & see you are discussing Melody & what she said about seeing Joran. Here is the link to the posts I had saved of hers.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=163