Lively Case Discussion #529 10/2 - 10/7/2006

[msmarple]

Klaas - Thanks for digging up the crime stats at the Aruba library. I posted the Amigoe article on the M&C thread.

Their figures tally with ours! (Except of course Natalee probably isn't counted as a murder/homicide.)

Also - Did you notice - No suicides by jumping, as in off a building?

I did see they had a "poison" suicide - that's the one we've been trying to get some detail about. "Poison on the beach" ...

[klaasend]

Klaas - Thanks for digging up the crime stats at the Aruba library. I posted the Amigoe article on the M&C thread.

Their figures tally with ours! (Except of course Natalee probably isn't counted as a murder/homicide.)

Also - Did you notice - No suicides by jumping, as in off a building?

I did see they had a "poison" suicide - that's the one we've been trying to get some detail about. "Poison on the beach" ...

Yes, I did notice.  You know, MF and others keep talking about how these statistics are published, but how many have been "swept under the rug" so to speak?

[thik]

mornin'

any word on the 'Hollandaise' investigators comin in,,, with bullets and everything?   or is it the one guy now?

these lyrics come to mind,,,,,

"meet the new boss,,,,,,same as the old boss"
The Who,,,
'We won't get fooled again"....


God Bless Natalee,,,,Wherever She Is...............

Go Cowboys,,,, Go Yanks..........

[Anna]

HotShot, Thanks for that link.  I will try to listen but it is very long and I know the original does not sound like the one that the ALE was listening to, all kinds of added background noise.  But I will check it out this evening.

MsMarple and Klaas,

We were clearly led to believe around the time of the beheading of the refinery worker that there were no stats available and it was because crime was just so low there they didn't bother.  What a crock!

But how on earth are tourists supposed to know to go to the library and check for crime stats?  Especially when the officials and AHATA and even the OM are saying there just is not enough to be worth mentioning, a mere handful of incidents per year.

Look at that year with 8 murders!! Yikes!  So they do know and apparently have known all along that they do not have any such thing as a low crime rate yet continued to advertise that they did.  This is not just false advertising but misinformation of a kind that puts tourists lives at risk.  What if all countries just claimed no crime when in fact it was this prevalent?  Well, maybe some do but there are usually consequences.

Yet another reason to stay away for who knows what is going on when we are told there is no crime and yet the police are fully aware that there is.  Where is the stat for number drugged at local bars I wonder.  Bet that one is too high to tally!  

MsMarple!!  WoW!  We found them all, all the murders or at least all that the police did.  And in Papiamento at that!!  You have done such a good job!   And just why do you think there are suddenly articles about this very thingy???  You have amazed me at your work and abilities to get this information to the people that you have.  

[nonesuche]

Hi Anna-

Kudos indeed to MsMarples and to you - btw, LOVE those daisies!

I am growing increasingly concerned like thik, that garrison's leak regarding deep throat could be one more diversionary tactic, so that the lone Dutchman can come in and quietly close the case?

I so hope I am wrong.....

[nonesuche]

Klaas - Thanks for digging up the crime stats at the Aruba library. I posted the Amigoe article on the M&C thread.

Their figures tally with ours! (Except of course Natalee probably isn't counted as a murder/homicide.)

Also - Did you notice - No suicides by jumping, as in off a building?

I did see they had a "poison" suicide - that's the one we've been trying to get some detail about. "Poison on the beach" ...

Yes, I did notice.  You know, MF and others keep talking about how these statistics are published, but how many have been "swept under the rug" so to speak?

Well we can guarantee these stats never hit the PR firm's collateral and propaganda regarding traveling to that rock of an island!!

I saw BOC reported the other night that he's still not selling Aruba via his agency, GO BOC !!!!!!!

[Red]

New Front Page Post:

Aruban Tourism … Still An Endangered Species

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/10/04/aruban-tourism-still-an-endangered-species/

Another great job by Vanderbilt - '06

[nonesuche]

Thanks Red, great analogy & visual on that one !

[blah]

Un-real.  Is Foley going for the trans-fat/second hand smoke defense?


http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=56346#56346

[Anna]

Un-real.  Is Foley going for the trans-fat/second hand smoke defense?


http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=56346#56346

Er, Blah,
Scott Ott is a comedienne and a pretty good one  He writes a humor column.  It's OK, it's a joke.

But seriously, Foley should use whatever defense Rep. Barney Franks (D) used when caught with that gay prostitution ring being run out of his office.  It earned him a promotion and he is still in office until this day.

But Ott is making a funny with his column which he writes at least once daily.  You can subscribe to it and receive his articles via email.  I do.  Some are hilarious.  

.

[Anna]

O/T

Un-real.  Is Foley going for the trans-fat/second hand smoke defense?


http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=56346#56346

Here's a link to Scott Ott/Scrapleface's website:


Bush Fires Rumsfeld, Nominates Bob Woodward
by Scott Ott
(2006-10-02) -- White House sources today said that President George Bush, under increasing pressure to 'win the peace' in Iraq, will fire embattled Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and nominate Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward as his replacement.
READ THE REST AT...
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2346

He is funny and gives both sides whatfor!      

.

[blah]

Un-real.  Is Foley going for the trans-fat/second hand smoke defense?


http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=56346#56346

Er, Blah,
Scott Ott is a comedienne and a pretty good one  He writes a humor column.  It's OK, it's a joke.

But seriously, Foley should use whatever defense Rep. Barney Franks (D) used when caught with that gay prostitution ring being run out of his office.  It earned him a promotion and he is still in office until this day.

But Ott is making a funny with his column which he writes at least once daily.  You can subscribe to it and receive his articles via email.  I do.  Some are hilarious.  

.

your kidding me, I had no idea.   Now i feel like an ass, someone is going to have a good laugh (I got that in an e-mail, had no idea it was a joke)

klaas or someone can delete that thread if you want.

[blah]

for the record - I'm blaming "Sudafed" for my lack of checking it out before posting  

[sharon]

I am hoping to expand on this dialogue and the statements within,  therefore I am posting it for all to view...  

Please email me if you have anything further to add > tdbweb2003@yahoo.com

 

 

What a waste of bandwidth.

The sewage lines to his mouth must have backed up and I guess someone just fixed it to allow the sewage to freely float out of his mouth.

I'm curious Charles. You're a 60 year old man. Do you have that many young men ride around in your car with you that you can't remember the evening with Gabriel Leo??

And Charles -- if your words were not reflected properly in Vanity Fair -- where is your letter to the editor demanding a retraction? Is it okay with you for those words to be assocaited with you? Or better yet -- write him a poem.

[nonesuche]

well said Sharon-

CCroes is a blight on this case and was from the first moment.

NO EXCUSES - he needs to OWN what he's done here.

[LilPuma]

I am hoping to expand on this dialogue and the statements within,  therefore I am posting it for all to view...  

Please email me if you have anything further to add > tdbweb2003@yahoo.com

 “Did you know that the missing girls family sent a private investigator to my home at midnight to do a voice analysis on me? Are you aware that this was done without preparing me beyond a phone call only moments prior to getting to the house. Are you also aware that these folks also did not come clean.

His recollections and perceptions are interesting.  He says he only wants to speak of facts he remembers but tells of Jug pushing Julia - was he there?  Did he see it?  What's worse than pushing Julia?  A 17-year old high school boy allowed to drink and gamble, leave a tourist who was going in and out of consciousness on a beach (or anywhere else) in the middle of the night.  Yet this young man who at the very least is guilty of obstruction of justice, is probably a pathological liar, is probably responsible for the death of a young woman has the total protection of the police, judges, and whole of Aruban society.  I don't object to hearing the criticisms of the US, but I want to know they're are not self-serving stories conjured up by those who thought they could defend their own actions by blaming others.  There's no reference in his statements to the words and actions of those responsible for investigating this case, nor those of the last three individuals who were with Natalee.  No mention of the lack of law enforcement that allowed Joran to routinely cruise bars and casinos for the purpose of picking up tourists "for sex" as he tells us.  No explanation of why police statements didn't include what many others heard Joran say to police the first night, announcements of confessions and bodies than are suddenly denied.  Why did the police all know there were Americans going to crack houses but not that an American tourist was missing?  Criticize America all you want--the whole world does--but take a good look at yourselves.  It's not pretty either.  Why say it's odd that Natalee got into a car with 3 Aruban young men?  Because they know they are predators who regularly look for tourists who are easy or drunk or on drugs and easy marks?  They are not the nice boys that Aruba wants us to think they are.  Aruba CANNOT defend themselves in this by saying that Americans can be overbearing, arrogant, crass or foolish.  There are people like that in every society, including Aruba.  They CANNOT justify societal norms that excuse lying, drug use, corruption and predatory behavior by blaming tourists or their families.

[Anna]

[
your kidding me, I had no idea.   Now i feel like an ass, someone is going to have a good laugh (I got that in an e-mail, had no idea it was a joke)

klaas or someone can delete that thread if you want.

Well, without the website, how were you to know!  But I bought one of his books one time I like him so much.

.
 

[Ono]

Mr. Croes fancies himself a spinner of tales and a man of letters.  That's hogwash, pure and simple.

Hogwash is right ~ What a crock !

[LilPuma]

Wasn't around last night and haven't had a chance to catch up on the FP or posts here, but there seems to be a black cloud over the cage.  Going to make some lunch now - stay positive and hopeful, monkeys, justice will be served - one way or another.

[Ono]

Mr C

Natalee was beautiful.
She was manipulated to get into that car.
Her parents have a strong backing, money, the right connections. To criticize them smacks of sour grapes to me.

If Jug wanted to end the day by a drink, who are you to be critical?
Not once did Mr. C say the ALE could have possibly played favorites or made mistakes.
(I am steamed at a lot of the comments, just replying off the top of my head after reading Grande's post.)

I'm steamed too...he also displays a real anti-American and a very jealous mindset, in my opinion.