Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[SS]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.

The Persistence crew went so far as to give each ALE visitor a visitor's tag, but they didn't write their names down?  That I find really difficult to imagine.

[texasmom]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.

The Persistence crew went so far as to give each ALE visitor a visitor's tag, but they didn't write their names down?  That I find really difficult to imagine.

How do you know they didn't write the names down? 

[SS]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.

The Persistence crew went so far as to give each ALE visitor a visitor's tag, but they didn't write their names down?  That I find really difficult to imagine.

How do you know they didn't write the names down? 

Kyle says he has no idea who they were.  Kyle was keeping the diary.

[Buckeye]

I do think it could be DTKM in the red shirt.  His appearance in a suit and tie is very different than in casual clothes.  His chin and shape of face, cheek bones looks very similar to me.  JMHO

There were people that thought it was Silvetti but Kyle said it was not Silvetti and it was someone that came on board with the Arubans.

I dunno if these help at all...

Does Bulldog have a camera around his neck?

[texasmom]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.

The Persistence crew went so far as to give each ALE visitor a visitor's tag, but they didn't write their names down?  That I find really difficult to imagine.

How do you know they didn't write the names down? 

Kyle says he has no idea who they were.  Kyle was keeping the diary.

By diary do you mean his log that was on his blog?  If so I think this would be completely separate from any visitor "log" that may have been kept on the boat.  Kyle may not have been responsible for that.  I would think that for security purposes the boat would be required to keep a log of non crew members that board.  It has been quite a while since the mission, and if Kyle knew some of the names then, he may not recall them now; or may not be at liberty to post them here.

[San]

Blonde,

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6426/8/

San THANK YOU!!! now... how did you do that: attach the phot to the post? I figured out how to attach a link...... I'm not completely useless, but close!

I have a program call PrintKey-Pro where I did a screen capture and then I saved the picture as a JPG and saved it to my photobucket.

Edited to add:  I copied the link from photobucket and pasted it in my post.

[SS]

?????

[teacat]

snipped

How do you know they didn't write the names down? 

Kyle says he has no idea who they were.  Kyle was keeping the diary.

By diary do you mean his log that was on his blog?  If so I think this would be completely separate from any visitor "log" that may have been kept on the boat.  Kyle may not have been responsible for that.  I would think that for security purposes the boat would be required to keep a log of non crew members that board.  It has been quite a while since the mission, and if Kyle knew some of the names then, he may not recall them now; or may not be at liberty to post them here.
[/quote]
From Kyle's posting:
Key Personnel: Bios coming soon! Please check back soon.

Louis Schaefer Jr. - Project Lead and Key Contributor

Tim Miller - Project Management -Founder of Texas Equusearch http://www.texasequusearch.org/

Tim Trahan - Underwater Expeditions - Project Management

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Providing the R/V Persistence for the search effort. http://silvettigroup.com/

Marc Broussard - Project Manager

Kent Bourg- Party Chief

Kyle Kingman - Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist

Anthony Fontenot - Acoustic Positioning Technician
Posted by Kyle Kingman at 5:47 PM

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

I don't see anyone listed as Clerk.... or Secretary. Project Manager, yes. Perhaps that is one responsible?

[teacat]

Whoops.. didn't quote block that last message correctly. sorry

[AZSunny]

Could "Moustache" work as an Aruban Coroner?

How can so many people be on a US flagged vessel and we don't know of a manifest?

*n. 1. A list of cargo or passengers carried on a ship or plane. Detailed statement of the contents put on a ship or other vehicle. A copy of the manifest is put in a safe place so that the exact cargo is known, even in the event the vessel is destroyed. A copy of a ship's manifest is kept on board for cargo identification purposes in the event of a search.

The Persistence crew went so far as to give each ALE visitor a visitor's tag, but they didn't write their names down?  That I find really difficult to imagine.

How do you know they didn't write the names down? 

Kyle says he has no idea who they were.  Kyle was keeping the diary.

The log of a ship is kept by the ships captain.  Why would Kyle have anything to do with this log?  It wasn't his job. Is it possible he just doesn't remember their names? Seems logical- not sinister to me.

[AZSunny]

The log of a ship is kept by the ships captain.  Why would Kyle have anything to do with this log?  It wasn't his job. Is it possible he just doesn't remember their names? Seems logical- not sinister to me. (try it again out of the quote box.....sorry)

[vms]

?????

But Kyle said that was not him...

[texasmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366270#msg366270

******* question:

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 

klaasend question:

RUMOR is that such a trap could have been used as a drug "post office" of sorts.  I have no idea who would have been the owner of the trap but suspect if true it was put there intentionally.

It was also mentioned that a trap that size could have come from one of the Venezuelan fishing ships passing through.

oceanexploration's response:

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results. 
The problems with this theory include: 
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels. 
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.   

[johan555]

MumInOhio > Relax  ??

[texasmom]

What do you think?  Maybe red shirt?

bump

Anyone?  Yes or No, I can take it!   

[Blonde]

Do we have this pic of Deepak's car?

That's a good picture it certainly was NOT the car taken into custody to be processed by ALE.  That one did NOT have tinted windows & the hub caps only had five spokes not the six seen in the above photo.  LieRuba is such a disgrace, this all should have been solved within 30 days.  What a bunch of cowardly criminals, can't wait til they have to face the music, the enabler's of the slootscum's.

Touch base with Rob, Carpe, and Wreck.  They spent days comparing the Hondas.  I think it's all back in Shango somewhere.

[Buckeye]

I remember this.  Sounds like the large cage was shoved off...not lowered....I remember searching forever for who on Aruba owned such a large trap.  Kyle said he was told only one person.   

[Blonde]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

[texasmom]

MumInOhio > Relax  ??

Johan, I know what you mean, I thought the same!  Maybe she was just being sarcastic?  

Did Peter say anything else about Renee Gielen's crock that I'd like to know?  I loved the "sunstroke" one!

 

[Blonde]

Teacat
So the cage was opened on the divers side.