Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[texasmom]

 

I think I need some sleep!  hypnotized!  Still might not be spelled right..

[cajun miracle]

Yoooohoooo Kermit....I have something for you!  And more where that came from! 

Does Kermit stay up this late?

Yes, sometimes anyway.   

If not it'll be here waiting!

Thanks for tempting him. You must be a nightowl too. Nite all.

[iris44]

OK This is just my opinion. After Tim left so suddenly and the Peter tapes were shown, Beth seemed more at peace. That is another reason that I think that something of Natalee's was found and tested. Why these results have never been reported, I have no idea since it has been almost 1 year. I still feel that the skull was brought back to the US and tested, so that Aruba wouldn't have control over it.

I agree.  I thought Beth seemed completely at peace also and have suspected she must have more information.  I don't think she would just take Joran's word for it.

[Kermit]

the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only.
<snip>
the FBI gave them to Dave H
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047



Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #740 on: March 18, 2008, 12:22:38 PM »
After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap. 
<snip>
The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

<snip>
On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321


The trap contents weren't sampled until the 7th of January.  Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366312#msg366312


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

Quote from: private eye on March 19, 2008, 02:54:38 PM
 I am curious what the circumstances were surrounding his leave from the boat he described during which the Dutch ship came close to the trap location.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366826#msg366826

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289
Human remains were found


the items found inside the trap
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366281#msg366281



I inquired about the Dutch coast guard being on site
 "we do not have dive capability
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366325#msg366325

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap
<snip>
Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

[Kermit]

All I will say is Kermit may think he knows some things, but I fear he is way off base in some of his ideas and I have very good reason to say this. 

I am not telling you anything that is based upon "ideas"
I base what I tell you on FACTS!

You do not have to believe me.
BUT those who know me, know my background, know what I do, what I have done, know better then to doubt me.
That's all I'm saying. And I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.
I consider you a nice lady and I hate to see you have to say, "I'm sorry kermmie, I was wrong, you were right."

ribbit

[Kermit]

Can I ask this question? What if it was Natalee and the coverup was to get her to the US FBI. When Robin posted those pictures, that's when it came out in the open. Well, could this be the case and why no one will tell what the FBI did test?

The FBI testing results were sent to MOS and he said that they tested the fabric, and it did not match her "blouse"  if the fabric was denim, and i believe it was, was it tested against the denim skirt she was wearing? No response (nor testing?) regarding the skirt at all.  I think that is what OE was saying since the results were  shared.   he said what MOS said was truthful, but there were lots of buts there in my opinion.....What the Aruba authority's asked to be tested were the fabric against the blouse, no match. they did not ask for the skirt to be tested.  MOO

But remember, Kyle will NOT comment on the other things that the FBI has tested and what was in the ziplocks? Hmmmmmm!

Kyle did not reveal the ziplocks story that was Private Eye that did that.  So you think Kyle was in on this cover up too with Silvetti?

Why would PI bring up zip locks? 

I can't tell you or I will have to kill you.

The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.
<snip>
On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.[/b] 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321

[Kermit]

Can I ask this question? What if it was Natalee and the coverup was to get her to the US FBI. When Robin posted those pictures, that's when it came out in the open. Well, could this be the case and why no one will tell what the FBI did test?

The FBI testing results were sent to MOS and he said that they tested the fabric, and it did not match her "blouse"  if the fabric was denim, and i believe it was, was it tested against the denim skirt she was wearing? No response (nor testing?) regarding the skirt at all.  I think that is what OE was saying since the results were  shared.   he said what MOS said was truthful, but there were lots of buts there in my opinion.....What the Aruba authority's asked to be tested were the fabric against the blouse, no match. they did not ask for the skirt to be tested.  MOO

But remember, Kyle will NOT comment on the other things that the FBI has tested and what was in the ziplocks? Hmmmmmm!

Kyle did not reveal the ziplocks story that was Private Eye that did that.  So you think Kyle was in on this cover up too with Silvetti?

Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides:
Who cover faults, at last shame them derides.
(King Lear)

[Kermit]

Kermit has given us all clues to investigate.  I don't believe that Kermit would lead us down this road if there is nothing to it.  I don't know John Silvetti personally, and I don't know his heart.  I do know that he is human.  I have considered him and well as all of the other Crew of the Persistence "Heroes" just like everyone else.  It has been awful to realize that any of them could have assisted in covering up what was actually found.  IMO OE even has some questions about what was going on during the final days regarding the cage.  I'd heard about a disagreement among some on the boat long before this recent discussion, didn't think much about it as they were all probably exhausted...thought about it a lot lately.  Do I think that Kermit may be right?  Yes, I do; and I want the facts.  JMO

For Natalee, that's what it's about.  

 

Whick would work? Offer Kermit some treats or threaten to fry his legs.

Treats definitely!  I'll be shopping for some later!  

As many times as Ms. Klassend has "run to the store" she has yet to bring poor ol kermmie a bug.

[Kermit]

Ok Im going to say this one time and I will be done.  There is someone very close to my family who knows John Silvetti and knew him way before Natalee went missing.  This man is a class act.  He went into this to find Natalee and help her family.  He is in NO way a part of a coverup! It is an insult to this man to even suggest that he is a part of a cover up.  You who beliive this should be ashamed.   You all can choose to believe what you want and you can choose to blindly follow anyone you want but it does not change the FACTS.  I am just sorry that people choose to follow someone who does not even know this man and who in my opinion says things to draw attention to himself.  Sadly theer have been way too many people who have claimed to know stuff who don't have a clue!

Casa, I do not know John Silvetti.  He may be a saint.  I am not ashamed of looking for clues to solve this case.  I do apologize if I have offended, because posting negative comments about anyone on the internet is offensive.  I think we are grasping at any clues or information that we can to try to find the answers we need.  I did research Silvetti and Schaefer.  I will say that my suspicions lean more toward Schaefer.  He does have connections in the NL that make me go hmmm. 

If you can, please answer this question, did Silvetti attend a Mansur wedding?  Does he have a connection to Jossy?    IIRC, Caps was talking about Silvetti as related to the pond search.  He said that he had spoke with John regarding when the search would be performed.  Now, I don't know who CAPS is but how does he know John Silvetti?  It appears that John had connections to Aruba prior to Natalee's search.

Agan, I am not trying to upset you.  Please do not take offense.

I have no information that Silvetti attended a Mansur wedding.  I have no information that he has a connection to Jossy. Actually I don't think that Caps knew John Silvetti and I don't think that Silvetti had any connections to Aruba before the search.  This is my opinon:  People cannot accept that the crab trap was in no way connected to Natalee and want someone to blame.  People were seeing all kinds of things in that trap that just were not there.  Believe me I want this case solved badly but seeing things and saying that people are covering up will not solve this.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I'm sorry. But it is the truth.
You are duped by someone I guess you thought you knew.

[Kermit]

Ok Im going to say this one time and I will be done.  There is someone very close to my family who knows John Silvetti and knew him way before Natalee went missing.  This man is a class act.  He went into this to find Natalee and help her family.  He is in NO way a part of a coverup! It is an insult to this man to even suggest that he is a part of a cover up.  You who beliive this should be ashamed.   You all can choose to believe what you want and you can choose to blindly follow anyone you want but it does not change the FACTS.  I am just sorry that people choose to follow someone who does not even know this man and who in my opinion says things to draw attention to himself.  Sadly theer have been way too many people who have claimed to know stuff who don't have a clue!

Casa, I agree with you 100%.  What was John going to get anyhow if he did find Natalee?  Alot less then what he actually put into the search.  I believe in Kyle also.  If he says you can't do that kind of scanning with "that" boat, then who knows better then him?  He does that for a living.  It is totally ungrateful to even think someone would go over there for the sake of themselves.  It's dangerous to begin with.  Trust me, been there, done that.  I have been watching this for days, I am sorry, I had to pop in.

I'm seriously not trying to denigrate anyone  -- because I am only speculating on facts that I know to be true. The Persistence may not have been exploring for oil -- BUT they MAY have been mapping the ocean floor for a possible "pipeline". They may have been doing this in ADDITION to looking for Natalee or perhaps used this data "after-the-fact". Also, they may have been asked to keep their findings "secret" (see my post from February '08 above). Kermit seems to think there is something sinister -- I just don't know. I would hate to think that. All that said, I truly think Kermit is someone who we can trust.  ( Does ANYONE here know who he really is????)

I know who kermit is!

 

[Kermit]

Yoooohoooo Kermit....I have something for you!  And more where that came from! 

Burp!
and

thank you

[Kermit]

Yoooohoooo Kermit....I have something for you!  And more where that came from! 

Does Kermit stay up this late?

Depends on where I am.

[Kermit]

I was looking into some disturbing thigs about the racial tensions on the island. All is NOT as happy as it seems. Van DerStraaten and Van derSloot both propose to be environmentalists . Follow the money... Van derStraaten has made some investment in Aruba's environmentally friendly ca$sinos (rumor is it is in other family members names until after he retires). The oil refinery which hires many of the native islanders on the the 'bad' side of the island, where nothing is maintained and tourists rarely travel due to the stinch of the landfill nearby.

It is said that the dutch and expats live on the west and north end while the blacks lives on the south and east end. They do not attend the same schools and there is a very distinct class difference. The black islanders are taught to treat all tourists and especially lighter skinned people with honor. The lighter the skin, the better the treatment.

I really do not know. That any of this is true. Just repeating what is being said in small circles.

I do have a question. How many black tourists does Aruba get? Is this a reasonable path to pursue?

Posted by: Island Hopper | Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 01:44 AM

Follow the money.  Maybe some do not want additional water searches...it's bad for the casino business.  Scares the tourists away.  Who knows what lurks in the water around Aruba?

How much do the key players in the NH case have invested in casinos?  Timeshares?  Condos?

I remember that speculation in other places to.

What would investors be willing to do to get tourists back?  Get the money flowing through casinos?

Is the money on the island in oil refinery?  The US in on the road to oil independence in 10 years.  What interest does the US have in oil around Aruba?

Who would have such an interest?  China?  China has the contracts in Iraq.  China has the contracts and oil fields in Darfur. 

China in Aruba next?  Weren't the Chinese investigating Aruba for 'tourism' a year or so ago?  Maybe they were really looking for oil?  Isn't China in Cuba too?

Or casinos?  Money laundering?  Drugs?

Now Whiskey you are catching on. Go find more:
Hint:
CMCC a SPlit! Car Show
China Mobile Communications Corp (CMCC)


NOW IN ARUBA LOOK AT THIS

24 Augustus, 2006
Bank a bid cu biaha more special!

CMCC TA FREEZE BO PAGO MENSUAL CMCC TA freeze BO
monthly payments

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Duran te un anochi masha ameno, Sr. Oranjestad
(AAN): During a MASH anochi entertaining, Mr. Javier Wolter, Gerente di CMB, a yama bon bini na tur agencia di auto y bromer, miembronan di prensa y demas invitadonan, pa sera conoci cu Caribbean Mercantile Credit Company NV su facilidadnan nobo, mas espacioso y confortabel pa e clientenan. Javier Wolter, manager di CMB, yama bon bini na tur agency di auto and bromine, miembronan di press and other invitadonan, pa be known cu Caribbean Mercantile Credit Company NV facilidadnan his nob, more spacious and confortabel pa and clientenan.
http://tinyurl.com/57uy6a


SEE SOME FAMILIAR NAMES


WE HAVE A CONNECTION BETWEEN ODUBER WANTING
TO BRING THE CHINESE TO ARUBA TO DO BUSINESS

Paulus traveled on business a lot
(kind of odd isn't it for a wanna be judge)

Paulus and Oduber and Smid attended the same University.

China Wants to Make Aruba Its Gateway to South America

On 5-24-06 ARUBAAN's news-sourced "Amigoe.com" reported:

<QUOTE>

Chinese interest in oil-prospecting near Aruba

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber(r) explaining what Aruba has to offer to Chinese investors.

As you follow the money and corruption, it will open your eyes.

[Kermit]

Ok, playlike this huge, heavy trap that had been in the ocean was used as a drop off for drugs, then the boys killed Nat, how in the hooty hell did they get her in the trap, how do they put drugs in the trap for a drop???? 

Natalee was NOT put in the trap by "the boys." She was put there by a "bigger boat" days/weeks later.

I will repost my theory from February '08 again:



Quote from: wreck on Today at 03:20:36 PM
I'm going to dig a bigger hole for myself as I think few are following what I'm saying.
1) The Persistence in all likelihood has found Natalee in the trap.
2) They really did not want to expose this just yet. Why? Because they still need to "prove"
the "whys" and "hows". They have a better chance of accomplishing this if the actual "perps"
aren't "clued in."
3) Why the "Dateline" irregularities? Because "Dateline" was already on board and they had to
 keep up "appearances" so they could continue with their "plan."
4) The posting of the pics on the internet put a severe cramp in their plans.
5) Why is trap so big? Because the body disposal did not happen that night as in Joran's story.
 Her body was put there at least a few days later by a bigger boat involving a larger cover-up.
This why they did not reveal their "finding" yet. They want to find out who has that bigger boat.

Once again -- my opinion.

We have waited 3 years -- hold on -- we're almost there!


~~~~~~ (Ocean Explorer:
I also pray that you are right!  Wreck, I like the way you think. 
Wreck, then what are your thoughts on Mos's press release about the FBI results?

Don't know - don't care what Mos says or does. I trusted him up until Thanksgiving time. Never again.

trainwreck .gif = 

1. Yes.
2. Cover-up, corruption, securities fraud.

[Altruist]

Ok, playlike this huge, heavy trap that had been in the ocean was used as a drop off for drugs, then the boys killed Nat, how in the hooty hell did they get her in the trap, how do they put drugs in the trap for a drop????

Natalee was NOT put in the trap by "the boys." She was put there by a "bigger boat" days/weeks later.

I will repost my theory from February '08 again:



Quote from: wreck on Today at 03:20:36 PM
I'm going to dig a bigger hole for myself as I think few are following what I'm saying.
1) The Persistence in all likelihood has found Natalee in the trap.
2) They really did not want to expose this just yet. Why? Because they still need to "prove"
the "whys" and "hows". They have a better chance of accomplishing this if the actual "perps"
aren't "clued in."
3) Why the "Dateline" irregularities? Because "Dateline" was already on board and they had to
 keep up "appearances" so they could continue with their "plan."
4) The posting of the pics on the internet put a severe cramp in their plans.
5) Why is trap so big? Because the body disposal did not happen that night as in Joran's story.
 Her body was put there at least a few days later by a bigger boat involving a larger cover-up.
This why they did not reveal their "finding" yet. They want to find out who has that bigger boat.

Once again -- my opinion.

We have waited 3 years -- hold on -- we're almost there!


~~~~~~ (Ocean Explorer:
I also pray that you are right!  Wreck, I like the way you think. 
Wreck, then what are your thoughts on Mos's press release about the FBI results?

Don't know - don't care what Mos says or does. I trusted him up until Thanksgiving time. Never again.

trainwreck .gif = 

1. Yes.
2. Cover-up, corruption, securities fraud.

So it is safe to assume that the corrupt will be held accountable after all, right?????

[GrannyToad]

Where did they get that hairless fly? Did someone shave it? There's something else wrong, it's sick, see how it turns around and around. Kermie don't put your lips on that thing!

[MumInOhio]

Halliburton being brought up again, tonight, I tried to find the old Valero website, but much is gone....I do know that one rep was there at the time Natalee disappeared....not saying he was involved, personally, but it was something I had researched early.


http://www.valero.com/NewsRoom/BoD/02-Bradford.htm




 retired Chairman of Halliburton Company

Good Morning! Trying to see if these dots connect? Seems he is called Francis?

Charles Francis Croes
Father of the Bride

John Charles Croes
Best Man

http://legacy.usw.org/usw/program/adminlinks/docs/winter-07_36-37.pdf

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000046/004613.htm

[MumInOhio]

John Charles Croes grandfather's name is Carlos Croes.

Does anyone recall the pic of the trash can in Steve Croes grandparent's yard with Carlos Cros written on it?

Thanks in Advance!

[GrannyToad]

I have no idea what presence Valero has around the US, I just filled my tank there yesterday. In Texas they took over many/most Shamrock stations years ago. Don't know what you need from Valero but it's not as if it's some dinky oil company local to Aruba's refinery, I already mentioned that a few days back. Online it's www.valero.com.

[MumInOhio]

Vms…still opening links!

Which Jorge is in the wedding party do you think?

Arnold Solognier…I have seen those Fraduation pics before…Shango maybe?

Thanks in Advance!