Lively Case Discussion #508 8/7 - 8/8/2006

[msmarple]

Windsor - thanks for bringing that email over from GretaWire. I sent it to David Grossman, one of the travel writers at USAToday ... we've been on his case; he commented that Aruba had had only 1 homicide in 20 years ...

Smish - hello; don't think we've met   . The dog story was true, per locals who were posting here last summer. Also the broken window thing, and fighting with his brother.

Joran was seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist for "anger management"  (I think Anita said that as well as the Arubans posting here. I don't remember which professional specialty.)

One of the Aruba posters said that she had heard, from a good source, that Joran's problems went far beyond killing dogs and the other things we had heard about. Anita was "in denial."

I also suspected that he had had probelms with underage driving, and possibly DUIs. (The driving age is 18.)

Incidentally, I happened on a site last night that indicated that vehicle accidents and fatalities are fairly high on Aruba. (Looking up homicide + Aruba for Mr. Grossman's perusal.)

Easy - I posted something for you at your thread in the lounge.

[San]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

This is true.  CC knew Joran was a local but Beth didn't.

[KatzHome]

It's really a good thing that your senses are aware enough to have found the island creepy ~ even before all this stuff came out about it...

[Ono]

FROM JORAN'S JUNE 10TH STATEMENT:

To your question how much alcoholic beverages I can drink before I get drunk, I answer you the following. I can handle my alcohol. Since my 15th year I have been drinking alcohol. I am a social drinker. I think that before I start feeling tipsy I have to drink a crate of beer. I cannot answer you how many rum and whisky's I have to drink before I get drunk. If I drink normal glasses of alcoholic beverages I would have to drink twenty (20) to thirty (30) glasses before I get drunk. If I get drunk I feel tired and want to sleep. I do not get irritated when I get drunk.

I think he is a nasty drunk.

I think you are right San..my thoughts exactly when I read that.

Did you notice his discription of Deepak when he is drunk.  I think Joran is describing himself.

That was my first thought.  Also, he goes into extremes describing how he can hold vasts amount of alcohol.  If he can really hold his liquor like that at his young age, he would have had to have been weaned on Walker Deluxe Bourbon...and taken it to school everyday in his thermos bottle beginning in the first grade.

[Windsor]

I have to tell another Aruba story; this one is pretty funny --

we were chatting with our maid in our room, and I commented how everyone drove pretty fast there; and she said,

"Yes, and if you don't start moving even before the light turns green, they'll yell at you -- go bitch, go!"

it's true

[San]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

This is true.  CC knew Joran was a local but Beth didn't.

Let me make a correction.  Beth knew who Joran was because she spoke to the night manager at one of the hotels and she informed Beth that Joran was a local and he preys on young American tourists.

[Mere]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

Good thoughts....why were the HTs looking for a local boy...?  If they had info from the MB kids, they should have been looking at the HI logs for the HI Dutch tourist and his father....or looking at the airport logs for the Dutch tourist and his father who were returning to Holland....what put them onto Joran as a local....did I forget how that happened?

[Windsor]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

This is true.  CC knew Joran was a local but Beth didn't.

Let me make a correction.  Beth knew who Joran was because she spoke to the night manager at one of the hotels and she informed Beth that Joran was a local and he preys on young American tourists.

that's right; thanks, San

[Ono]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone --

what would our (US)  security implications be if the boycott continues to work, Aruba goes down the drain, and Chavez and Venezuela move in?

Don't look now, but Chavez is already moving in....Cuba-Lite.  If I lived there, I would leave that place while the leaving is possible. I don't see Holland going to their defense militarily in spite of the fact they are supposed to do so.

[Windsor]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone --

what would our (US)  security implications be if the boycott continues to work, Aruba goes down the drain, and Chavez and Venezuela move in?

Don't look now, but Chavez is already moving in....Cuba-Lite.  If I lived there, I would leave that place while the leaving is possible. I don't see Holland going to their defense militarily in spite of the fact they are supposed to do so.

was it Rudy Croes snuggling up to Chavez recently?  (please correct me if I'm wrong)

[sharon]

Tylergal posted this early this morning:
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:09 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I have found in some of my notes from someone who used to write me from Aruba, that the name of the person K2 aludes to could be Steve Keith. Anyone who anything about this Steve.



I wonder if there is a Steve Keith that works at Digicel?

I also did a very quick search -- and there appears to be a well known photographer by the name of Steve Keith on Aruba. Seems to take photos for tourism board.

And I caught an article about a race car driver by that name -- but he lives in NY. Although he has raced in Aruba.

I wonder what other kind of photos this Steve takes.

I don't know San -- but I admit that's where my mind went, too.

I'm not very good at the research stuff -- my computer isn't either

But when I saw that post of Tylergal's, I thought I'd see what came up.

The race car driver caught my attention, too -- wasn't there a Max Arendz that was someone's alibi for that night? And wasn't he a race car driver?

(Not to be confused with Max Arends -- not that there is anything that's NOT confusing).

I don't know if either of these guys has anything to do with Tylergal's notes -- other than the name.

[msmarple]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

This is true.  CC knew Joran was a local but Beth didn't.

I posted this last night - C Croes had not been to the Holiday Inn. His initial meeting with the family was at a service station. He was to then drive to the HI, but "made a decision" to swing by <whatever beach hangout area>. I don't think he had a NAME, he had a CAR description provided indirectly by some of the MB kids.

By the time CC got to HI, the family had the name ("Joran V" from his markers?) - but so did Croes, and had driven by the VDS house - one of the kids at the beach showed him.

All of this is the gist of what CC said in the heavilty-edited Greta interview.

I am now guessing that whoever from HI viewed those tapes w/Beth gave up as little info as possible.

[Ono]

Windsor,

Wow and people are still going there??  I just wish they would go and not come back and just stay on the island.. I think losing $3,000 is a very small price vs that this couple could of been killed..  JetBlue, I wonder if your wondering if maybe they should rethink their schedule..

I wonder who takes $3,000 worth of stuff to the beach...

Or was that stolen from their room while they were at the beach?

Katz, I wondered the same thing, actually; maybe the 3 grand worth of stuff was in their room; so, it's probably an inside job

didn't we read an article about a couple who was staying in a rental home being awoken by robbers in the house in the middle of the night!  they're quite bold and brazen

For that matter, since they were lulled into thinking Aruba was so safe, they could have taken their expensive watches off, put them in a tote on the beach towel, and gone off into the water, giving it not another thought.

[msmarple]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone --

what would our (US)  security implications be if the boycott continues to work, Aruba goes down the drain, and Chavez and Venezuela move in?

Don't look now, but Chavez is already moving in....Cuba-Lite.  If I lived there, I would leave that place while the leaving is possible. I don't see Holland going to their defense militarily in spite of the fact they are supposed to do so.

was it Rudy Croes snuggling up to Chavez recently?  (please correct me if I'm wrong)

There are two other islands. ABC - Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao - all very close together, all Dutch.

[Windsor]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

This is true.  CC knew Joran was a local but Beth didn't.

I posted this last night - C Croes had not been to the Holiday Inn. His initial meeting with the family was at a service station. He was to then drive to the HI, but "made a decision" to swing by <whatever beach hangout area>. I don't think he had a NAME, he had a CAR description provided indirectly by some of the MB kids.

By the time CC got to HI, the family had the name ("Joran V" from his markers?) - but so did Croes, and had driven by the VDS house - one of the kids at the beach showed him.

All of this is the gist of what CC said in the heavilty-edited Greta interview.

I am now guessing that whoever from HI viewed those tapes w/Beth gave up as little info as possible.

yes, I guess yours is the post I read that made me think of this -- thank you

so, you're saying that the Twitty group met CC at the gas station with just a car description and a "Dutch tourist" description, then the Twitty group went to the HI, but from the gas station, CC went to the beach "just on a hunch, (from what I remember CC saying in Greta's interview); if this is correct, it means that CC knows of Joran's reputation

but when Beth was at the HI, she got info on Joran as a resident there, and when CC got to the HI, he had the same info?  is this right?

[Windsor]

oh, that was such a confusing post; sorry

[Sue]

Today's Greta Wire

Dear Greta,
Just got back from Aruba from our yearly vacation there. This time was so different. I think Natalee Holloway is getting back on them.
Apparently the island is inundated with crime due to drugs. My husband and I have been going there for over 12 years and have always felt safe until now. We were robbed of over $3000 worth of stuff on the beach last week during our visit.
They try so desperately to keep it secret — I learned this from the natives. However, the week before us there was another robbery on the beach — denied by the management of our resort (of course, due to public relations, etc.) Two days after we were robbed, so were my friends. A couple we met were robbed at the Lighthouse while visiting the beach! Three natives told me their homes were broken into! The crime is rampant on the island and word needs to get out. We type messages on the Aruban message boards to warn people and they do not get posted.
I had the pleasure of taunting Deepak Kalpoe at his place of business and then seeing Joran van der Sloot in the old Wyndham casino the night he was freed from the NY lawsuit. He walked in there with such arrogance that I wanted to punch him out! People in the casino that work there patted him on the back with such celebration it made me sick! The island reeks of corruption! The natives speak of Beth Twitty as a drunken slut who fixed the whole story. I met her last year late at night and she was sober as sober can be!
I have been going to Aruba for so many years — it was my home away from home. However, after being robbed on the beach, meeting Deepak and seeing Joran in action, I am totally confused! It is obvious (and spoken by the natives) that the government is so corrupt. I no longer feel safe in Aruba. How is it that Natalee is missing and these arrogant, low-life a__holes are walking free!
Donna Bykowski
Oakland, NJ

[Ono]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone --

what would our (US)  security implications be if the boycott continues to work, Aruba goes down the drain, and Chavez and Venezuela move in?

Don't look now, but Chavez is already moving in....Cuba-Lite.  If I lived there, I would leave that place while the leaving is possible. I don't see Holland going to their defense militarily in spite of the fact they are supposed to do so.

was it Rudy Croes snuggling up to Chavez recently?  (please correct me if I'm wrong)

From the looks of some photgraphs we've seen over the course of this, it's more than one snuggler. It's not a good situation.

[Anna]

Good Afternoon Monkeys,

Windsor,
I think Beth got the information that Joran was a local before she met with CCroes at the gas station.  Not sure who but someone at the HI told them who he was and his reputation.

.

[Smish]

From Joran's June 10th Statement:

Before the girl went missing I was also under treatment of a psychologist. This was because I had taken 50 euro's from my dad and also took money from my mother and I used my brothers mobile phone without asking for permission and after that I had broken the chip from his mobile phone. I also once fought with my brother in Miami but we are good friends now.

Okay - I ask you...Would someone need to be under treatment of a psychologist for taking money, breaking a cell phone & a fight with a brother?  

I am not saying that what he did was right, in stealing etc. but - Common sense tells me this is NOT the reason for treatment.  I venture to guess this was the LEAST of the reasons he was under treatment.

Hi Monkeys.
I agree with Kimmy,I wonder if those stories are true about Joran killing his dog(s)?

Hi Smish ~ I haven't seen you before ~ welcome!

Hi KatzHome
I've been reading here forever and I post on the FP sometimes.I am a aol MB poster on the Natalee board....trying to ween that uglyness out of my system.Thanks for the welcome