Transcript: Larry King Live 7/29/08
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, court fight over those jailhouse tapes from that missing toddler mystery. What doesn't Caylee Anthony's mom want us to hear as she sits behind bars?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: In my gut, she's still OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Her own mother's actions helped put her there and for reporting that the 2-year-old disappeared.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My granddaughter has been taken, she has been missing for a month.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: What's going on? I'll ask her. She's here.
Plus cell phones and cancer. Is there a link? Are children in immediate danger? A new warning should have everybody asking, does something I use every day kill me? Put down your cell phones now and find out, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
Where is little Caylee Anthony? And what does her now-jailed mother know about her fate?
The 2-year-old went missing in mid-June. She was reported missing on July 15th, that's a day (sic) later. Her mother Casey (sic) then calls in. She has her arrested on charges of child neglect, making false official statements, obstructing a criminal investigation. Police have now named Casey Anthony, the mother, as a person of interest in Caylee's disappearance.
We welcome the grandmother, Cindy Anthony. She is with us in Orlando, Florida.
Do you have any thoughts, Cindy, as to what happened to your granddaughter? CINDY ANTHONY: My thoughts are a lot clearer now than they were that night that I made three 911 calls. I'm very confident that -- I'm very confident that Casey will be exonerated of all charges once we find Caylee, so that's why our focus is on trying to find our granddaughter.
KING: So you feel she's definitely alive?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe she is alive when Casey handed her off to the baby-sitter. At this point, I just hope to god that no one has done anything to her.
KING: Little explaining, Casey and Caylee were both living with you, right?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, Casey has always lived at home. Caylee was born in 2005 and has lived with us ever since.
KING: And the father, I understand, was killed?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, he's never been part of her life.
KING: But he was killed in an automobile accident?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, but he was never a part of her life before that.
KING: And he wasn't supporting her?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, he was never even on the birth certificate. That was a mutual thing between Casey and the father.
KING: Why did you turn daughter in?
CINDY ANTHONY: Little background, Casey had gone on an extended trip, kind of trying to figure out -- she's 22. We were talking about when it might be the right time for her and Caylee to move out. And her trip just kept getting extended and extended, which was really not a red flag itself, I mean, the trip itself. There would be a few days at a time that she would go and stay with friends. She went from a couple different friends, and I never got a chance to speak with Caylee during that time.
I would ask Casey periodically if she could put Caylee on the phone or whatever, and there was always a very reasonable excuse. Either she was napping or she was already in bed. By the time I get home from work sometimes in the evening, and I would be able to speak to my daughter, it would be time for Caylee to be napping or going to bed.
KING: I got you. So she finally comes home?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, what happened was, to set the background right, she had told me that she had been in Jacksonville for the last week and a half. We had gotten a notice in the mail that we had a registered letter. We found the registered letter a few days before, but it was the weekend, so we had to go down and get it. And when we got it, my husband found out it was from a tow truck or a towing company.
And when we actually went down and found out that the car that she, you know, uses was not in Jacksonville, it was in Orlando and we found out the date, that was a huge red flag.
So I started calling her friends and I found one friend that had just seen her a few hours prior, and she took me to where Casey was at, and when I got there, there was no Caylee. So I started to feel like, what's going on? She had told me that she was at the sitter's. So we took her friend home. Her friend and her and I drove around for a while. It was later in the evening, about 7:00, 7:30. That's typically when we start getting Caylee down for a nap and Casey's response was that Caylee was probably already getting ready for bed and didn't want to disrupt her.
But being the selfish grandma that I am, I wanted to see my granddaughter. So we drove around a bit. And I tried to convince her to take me to her, and I just started getting an eerie feeling that something wasn't right in Casey's voice. I know my daughter pretty well.
KING: So you decided -- in the interest of time, let's listen to your 911 call.
CINDY ANTHONY: Make sure you do the first one first, because there were three, actually.
KING: We'll do the first one. Let's listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCH: 911, what's your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff's not here. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today. But I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car.
DISPATCHER: Is your daughter there?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
DISPATCHER: Can I speak with her?
CASEY ANTHONY: Hello.
DISPATCHER: Hello.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes?
DISPATCHER: Hi. What can you -- can you tell me what's going on a little bit?
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter's been missing for the last 31 days.
DISPATCHER: And you know who has her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today -- now from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment, about a minute.
DISPATCHER: Why are you calling now? Why didn't you call 31 days ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: I've been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: That was the third call. We didn't have the first two.
Cindy, are you now saying you believe your daughter -- you want her to come out, and you believe that we're going to find Caylee?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe we're going to find Caylee if the investigation goes the right way, if the media will not just take their own spins on things.
I was in shock that first night and there's a lot of things -- the first phone call, there was no panic in my voice. The second phone call, a little frustrated. The third phone call, by the time my daughter had spoken to my son and actually said that Caylee had been kidnapped, I walked in on that conversation. So the police were going to be taking their time to get to the house, so I said whatever it was to get them out there right then and there.
KING: Cindy will be coming back with us. We want to talk to a couple of people about this. Casey Anthony's attorney is here as well. He'll join us after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Our grandmother friend Cindy will be coming back.
But let's meet Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony. Casey is being held on charges related to the disappearance of her 2- year-old daughter, Caylee.
In Miami is our friend Stacey Honowitz, the assistant Florida state attorney who specializes in child abuse and sex crimes.
And in Madison Heights, Michigan, Dr. Daniel Spitz, forensic expert, chief medical examiner for Macomb County, Michigan.
A judge today denied to block media access to Casey's phone calls and visitation conversations in jail. Everything was released.
Let's just listen for a moment to Casey talking with her brother, Lee.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: You think Caylee's OK right now?
CASEY ANTHONY: My gut feeling? As mom asked me yesterday and even Jose asked me last night, the psychologist asked me this morning that I meet with through the court -- in my gut, she's still OK. And it still feels like she's close to home.
L. ANTHONY: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: So that's still my best feeling at the moment.
Again, if that changes, obviously I'm going to reach out and say something immediately. But I know mom will understand this better than anyone that there's that type of bond that you have with your kid.
L. ANTHONY: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: And it's -- unexplainable, absolutely.
L. ANTHONY: Did you speak with Caylee over the phone at any time?
CASEY ANTHONY: I did one time, yes, and that was actually the day that mom called the police.
L. ANTHONY: OK. Do you remember what time you spoke to her?
CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon, it was through a private call.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Jose Baez, you're Casey's attorney, what's your read on this case?
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY'S ATTORNEY: Well, my read on this is she is basically being prosecuted for a homicide without any evidence. And the presumption of innocence has flown out the window, and that really scares me.
KING: Stacey Honowitz, what do you read on the prosecution's case, if any?
STACEY HONOWITZ, ASSISTANT FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Well first of all, anybody looking at this case, it doesn't take a prosecutor to realize that there's something not right. Thirty-one days go by and this woman does not report that her child is missing, and there's no panic in her voice when she's talking to anyone in a jail or even when she's sitting in a courtroom.
So certainly she's going to be a person of interest to the police because she's the only person who knows where this child might be. And the fact that she's not cooperating certainly brings to mind that something is not right. So all of these feelings of the presumption of innocence, these are things that she's bringing on herself by not cooperating, by not being in a panic, by not trying to figure out who has her child.
BAEZ: I think that's inaccurate.
KING: Dr. Spitz -- hold on, Jose, just one thing for Dr. Spitz.
Dr. Spitz, there were reports of the smell of a decomposing body in the trunk of that car. The answer was that it was a pizza or something. Is there a similarity in those two smells?
DR. DANIEL SPITZ, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, MACOMB COUNTY: No, not really. That's very concerning to me. The smell of decomposition is very distinct. The fact that it was appreciated by this homicide detective and now child abuse detective, that's very concerning to me, and I think that as that evidence gets evaluated, you may in fact be able to prove this was the remains of a human body.
KING: Jose, is this something that -- is the prosecution saying, we don't have a body, but it sort of looks like a duck, acts like a duck, walks like a duck, it might be a duck.
BAEZ: You have to bear in mind this is the same dog that smelled something in the backyard, was inconsistent, so they had to bring in another dog and they dug there for two days and found nothing. At best, this dog is one for two, at worst it's zero for two. And quite frankly, I don't like those odds.
KING: What do you think happened to the baby?
BAEZ: Well, we believe this child has been kidnapped. And what's really disappointing is that people aren't searching for her as well as they should be.
We want to get the word out that Caylee is still missing. We want to do everything we can to facilitate the search. The prosecution can wait. If there's a missing child out there, we need to do every single thing we can to find this little girl and not put obstacles in front of that. And that's a problem.
What was said earlier about her not cooperating with police, that's clearly a misstatement. What happened was she spoke with police that night, they decided to charge her and start a criminal proceeding. Since then, I have opened myself up and the line of communications with law enforcement and I told them, if you have any leads that you want to bounce off my client, I will be happy to bounce them off her and give you access. The fact that she's not cooperating is just a misstatement.
KING: Stacey, does the 31 days, is that what bothers you the most?
HONOWITZ: I mean there's a number of things. If you look back into the investigation and everything that's been released so far, there's been such inconsistent statements. And his client in and of herself has given false leads because everything that they have tried to go down, every path that they have tried to find something out has been a lie.
She lied about working. She lied about the baby-sitter. She lied about leaving the baby-sitter. So all these things - when you say cooperating, the idea of cooperating is telling the truth. And in this case, all these leads by her have been false. So that's not just the 31 days. That's the worst of it. I think any parent would go crazy.
KING: Dr. Spitz, a mysterious stain apparently was found in the trunk. Police are awaiting for results. What might you read into that?
SPITZ: Well, I'll tell you. While Stacey's comments about all the misstatements are very concerning, it's going to be the forensic evidence which is going to crack this case open. And while the cadaver dog may not have been exact in the dog's approach, the dog certainly has led investigators to certain things that need to be further evaluated. The decomposition smell came from something. The stain that you mentioned is forensic evidence. So while that gets evaluated, I think we're going to have some results, and I think we're going to have much more information to go on.
It's very concerning the length of time this child has been missing. And the longer this goes, the more likely, we're dealing with a homicide investigation.
KING: Let's listen to more of a conversation Casey had with her brother Lee, released by the police. Watch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: Is there anything specifically -- I know you're going to meet with, you know the investigators and everything, you know -- is there anything specifically, the details, that you want to clarify for me now so when I'm following up on my own leads and my own information, putting the stuff together, you know then I can start working on it now?
CASEY ANTHONY: At the moment there's nothing specific or nothing that you know should probably be said here. Again, I'll put something together before I see Jose or when I see Jose and you know make sure that I have something also to put out.
L. ANTHONY: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: So that way you can get whatever you like.
L. ANTHONY: OK. And just remember when you get to talk to those guys, you know, you mentioned that you're going to have your prep and everything with Jose. But remember truth don't hurt.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know but there are some things that I have told them that were misconstrued and not used to their benefit. I gave them the same resources that I gave you and you found out a hundred more things than they did. And they were given the same information. So it's just about the approach I guess and using the resources to their full extent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Jose, do you believe this child is alive?
BAEZ: Yes, I do. I really do, and I think if we concentrate on looking for her, that's exactly what we're going to do, we're going to find her.
I've said a million times, my case looks a whole lot better if we find Caylee. And that's what I want to try to focus on. We've done everything we possibly can to try and assist. There's a lot being said of her cooperation, but I have to tell you, I've taken an oath to protect my client and her interests.
If you want to drop it anywhere, drop it right here. I'm going to defend my client and protect her from what's going on in the system, and we certainly want to help with the cooperation.
KING: Stacey, do you believe law enforcement is looking for the child?
HONOWITZ: Well, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be. If they get a report that a child is missing, you know, within a couple hours they issue an Amber Alert under normal circumstances. So in this case, you heard the police officer on the tape say to her, why did you wait 31 days to report this? So you would hope, and I'm sure that they are actively investigating and trying to find this child.
KING: Dr. Spitz, you're saying forensics will answer this?
SPITZ: I truly hope so. The fact that it's been 31 days puts law enforcement in a tough spot, but the bottom line is if this is a homicide investigation, it is going to be the forensics. Even without a body, the forensics in that car may in fact tell us what happened.
KING: We'll have Cindy Anthony come back and comment on what we've just heard, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Few more things, back with Cindy Anthony.
From what you heard, Cindy, do you -- the key here is -- when she was gone for 31 days, didn't you think that was a little nuts?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, not really. I think what's nuts is for people to speculate on things that they don't know the whole truth.
I want to ask the question to the gentleman that doesn't think that pizza can cause an odor of that magnitude. I want him tonight to put a piece of pizza in the trunk, put it in the Florida hot sun for 19 days and then open his trunk and tell me how bad it smells when there's maggots in there. The sheriff's department was there that night with at least seven or eight deputies. That car we had aired out. They walked by it all night long. They left it in my driveway for two full days before they decided to take it down to where they look at things, and then they waited until the night before he bond hearing to even start looking at it. So if that was --
KING: Cindy --
CINDY ANTHONY: -- let me ask you one thing. If that was truly their key evidence in something, then why didn't they investigate that first thing?
KING: You want to answer it, doctor?
SPITZ: Sure. There's no question that the smell of a decomposing body is markedly different than the smell of some rotting food matter.
But, you know, that's not the real evidence. That's just sort of gets you going in that direction. What needs to be done is that evidence in the trunk needs to be evaluated, because with DNA testing, it can clearly be separated whether that was any type of food matter or the tissues or decomposing fluids that you would get with a body that had been in the trunk for any length of time.
CINDY ANTHONY: I was told today -- can I ask a question? I was told today, sir, that sweat in that car could also be construed as decomposition. Is that true?
SPITZ: No, that's entirely different. Sweat or those kinds of body fluids are not the same thing as decomposing tissue or the decompositional fluid that is generated from a body.
So again, it all is going to go back to the collection of that evidence, the analysis of that evidence. And when it comes back that that in fact shows that a body was in that trunk, then there's going to be some explaining that needs to be done. If in fact that's not the case, then maybe it will turn out differently.
KING: Cindy, when your daughter gave the baby to the baby- sitter, what was the baby-sitter supposed to do with it? What happened after that?
CINDY ANTHONY: The same thing that she's always done, is let her pick her back up and take her.
KING: And when she went to pick her back up, what happened?
CINDY ANTHONY: They weren't there. They weren't there.
KING: So is it the suspicion that the baby-sitter kidnapped her?
CINDY ANTHONY: That's not suspicion. That's what Casey has maintained all along.
KING: Did you get a ransom note? CINDY ANTHONY: No, it's not that type of kidnapping, sir, that this person loves this girl and wants to have her as her own. That happens all the time. That happened not too long ago. In Orlando, Florida, someone stole the baby right out of a hospital.
KING: So she's a runaway with this child?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe so.
KING: And you're saying the authorities are not looking for that baby-sitter and the child?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well let me tell you why I say that. It's because they told us there was one person in central Florida with that name. In fact there's nine in central Florida. I just got a phone call on my way here that there's four in Fort Lauderdale and my daughter said that this girl had a Fort Lauderdale number and has connections in Fort Lauderdale and New York, and New Jersey.
In every state, there's people by this name. They think she's smart enough to make up this person for the last two and a half years, but dumb enough to park a car where in plain sight that her mother would drive by twice a day and see and leave her purse in the front seat of the car and not drive it into some lake.
So, my daughter is not a murder. My granddaughter is missing. My granddaughter is missing.
KING: Well will do more on this. Thank you, Cindy, and thank you, panel.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/29/lkl.01.html
