Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru 11/23/08

[SS]

Do we have this pic of Deepak's car?

That's a good picture it certainly was NOT the car taken into custody to be processed by ALE.  That one did NOT have tinted windows & the hub caps only had five spokes not the six seen in the above photo.  LieRuba is such a disgrace, this all should have been solved within 30 days.  What a bunch of cowardly criminals, can't wait til they have to face the music, the enabler's of the slootscum's.

Touch base with Rob, Carpe, and Wreck.  They spent days comparing the Hondas.  I think it's all back in Shango somewhere.

[Blonde]

Good Evening Fellow Monkey Sleuths

Have we ever identified the guy in the red shirt?  He came on board with ALE.  I was going to post this the other night and thought everyone would think I was crazy.... and I may be.... but he looks like Frans Deutkom (sp?).
Quote from: oceanexploration on November 20,2008 at 04:00:07 PM
BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.new#new


Blonde, our pic guru, I was looking through the thread where you posted the pictures and the one of Deutkom sorta running/walking fast in suit and tie and his hair looks kinda wild?!?  Do you remember it?  Could you bring it over. 
Can you give me a link please, I post a lot of pictures

I just want everyone to compare the two.  Put a cap on Deutkom and see what you think.

 

[Blonde]

Green shirt looks like he has a lighter complexion that the butterfly has.

LOL, don't think you can go by that, the lighting in that cabin is poor, wonder if Klaas or Blonde can lighten it up & green shirt may have been staying out of the sun, ya know skin cancer can happen to darker complexions as well, there actually could be any number of reasons for that.

[SS]

Do we know for certain where Urine is right now?  Is he still in Thailand?

If Greta, Jossy, or someone breaks information that can't be refuted, how will Urine get back to Aruba? We checked last year and the treaty says that it's voluntary for Thailand to extradiate someone.

[teacat]

the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only.
<snip>
the FBI gave them to Dave H
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

....snip for brevity.........

On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.[/b] 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321


The trap contents weren't sampled until the 7th of January.  Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366312#msg366312


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289
Human remains were found


the items found inside the trap
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366281#msg366281



Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap
<snip>
Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

Kermit,

This question may have been answered before but would you, or anyone who knows the facts, know why the stills of the trap that were posted at great objection by Kyle appear to have been taken from WITHIN the trap itself, and not thru the mesh as if the photographer were on the outside looking in? THis is something that has bugged me since Feb. Those shots look remarkably clear and yet still grainy. But I don't see any echo or shadow of the mesh..... Am I mistaken?

I just rewatched the MSNBC Dateline footage of the official dive and am left scratching my head over this:

If the trap itself is 90' below the surface, why did the divers have so little time left in their tanks to explore? How long does it take to dive 90' and how much oxygen do the tanks hold? Why didn't the divers open the cage or at least attempt to open it and allow the cameraman who was filming THEM to film within the cage? Or did they?

If the trap findings made Trahan give the thumbs down sign, why did the Authorities bother to RETURN for recovering and sampling ANYTHING and then give results for NOTHING? I assume the divers didn't recover a single thing while on the Persistance that key day?

Actually my real wonderment is in the time that lagged between the 30 Dec and the return with the DATELINE crew...... why didn't the Persistance divers not just jump in and enter the damned cage when they found it?REALLY!!!!! Who of us given these circumstances and knowing diving experience and money spent would wait another MINUTE before throwing themselves into the water and go right down there right then and there? THEY ALL KNEW that doing it "by the book" was getting the Holloways absolutely nowhere!

Anyone know these answers?

[teacat]

Green shirt looks like he has a lighter complexion that the butterfly has.

LOL, don't think you can go by that, the lighting in that cabin is poor, wonder if Klaas or Blonde can lighten it up & green shirt may have been staying out of the sun, ya know skin cancer can happen to darker complexions as well, there actually could be any number of reasons for that.

His moustache appears longer , thicker and darker than Butterfly's as well. Greenshirt looks like that fellow in the three stills carrying some briefcase walking out of a buiding and towards a car. BTW, the man in uniform behind him at the doorway sort of looks like "bulldog".... Hard to tell, he's so blocked in both shots.....

[Blonde]

I gave him a hair cut and cloned on the cap thoughts please.

[SS]

I see another photograph from the Persistence that might also show red shirt.   The second photo has a shirt with stripes, but the baseball cap looks like it's the same.  I don't understand why Kyle can't be more helpful with these people.

[Blonde]

2Nj thinks red shirt is Bucher, a member of the Persistence crew.  He has the same baseball cap on in another Persistence picture where he is wearing a striped shirt.  Go back several pages to the picture of the guy with a dead bear.

I looked at those hunting photos, but I don't think they look like the same guy.  Besides, OE told us that guy came on board the Persistence with the Arubans.[/quote]

Can't be Kyle said he did not know him

Quote from: oceanexploration on November 20,2008 at 04:00:07 PM
BTW, this is certainly NOT John Silvetti.  I do not know this man.  He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.new#new

[Blonde]

I do think it could be DTKM in the red shirt.  His appearance in a suit and tie is very different than in casual clothes.  His chin and shape of face, cheek bones looks very similar to me.  JMHO

There were people that thought it was Silvetti but Kyle said it was not Silvetti and it was someone that came on board with the Arubans.

I dunno if these help at all...

Did Kyle take these pictures?  If not, do we know who did?

You have to go to dateline and take screen shots,or their pictures .

Blonde,
I do not know who that man is either.  A group of Arubans came on board the Persistence (along with Mos and Richardson) who I had never seen.  I wasn't introduced. Everyone in those pictures are standing around me (seated).  The man you're calling the Bulldog stood behind me to my left.  Most of their english was pretty poor IIRC.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.700

[vms]

Green shirt looks like he has a lighter complexion that the butterfly has.

LOL, don't think you can go by that, the lighting in that cabin is poor, wonder if Klaas or Blonde can lighten it up & green shirt may have been staying out of the sun, ya know skin cancer can happen to darker complexions as well, there actually could be any number of reasons for that.

His moustache appears longer , thicker and darker than Butterfly's as well. Greenshirt looks like that fellow in the three stills carrying some briefcase walking out of a buiding and towards a car. BTW, the man in uniform behind him at the doorway sort of looks like "bulldog".... Hard to tell, he's so blocked in both shots.....

Hi teacat,

Thanks for responding to my question about the other guy in uniform. Paul Seute is who came to my mind but...

[Buckeye]

The only ones I recognize now are Mos and Dolph.  Don't think green shirt is Papito.  Does Bulldog have a camera around his neck?  Why do the Arubans have "visitor" name tags?  I would think the crew would recognize a non-crew member.   

Was this whole scene just a photo op?

Did anyone dive between Christmas Eve and Dec. 30th?

[Blonde]

What do you think he's thinking here.

[teacat]

I gotta ask this (and I apologize if it seems I beat dead horses....) I have just read thru Kyle's Log that Blonde hs been kind enough to compile and post here oops.... did that wrong.... (clean up on aisle two please!) here: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=3baacff0e65b5b53798ae4813b7da891&topic=4145.0
and I have to ask: why no mention in his entire Log (!) of Dateline being on board? Filming over shoulders? Filming the Holloways and chasing down phantom Marcos in Honduras?

Kyle, if you're out there..... I mean NO disrespect to you or the crew of the Persistance..... but why no mention or did I overlook it?

[WhiskeyGirl]

well those large traps from what I have seen on "Deadliest Catch" are used by way offshore fisherman, crabs & some fish as I think back on it, the boats are pretty large & have the needed equipment.  Now I guess that a drug post office would be possible, quite a bit of cocaine could probably be stored but not the kind of large shipments that I think big time drug runners would be involved in, then it seems kinda like too small.  Maybe for local dealing operations that size trap would be applicable, seems like a safe place to store it as well of course I don't really think LieRuba cares about keeping drugs of the place.

someone speculated that maybe for growing fish but I have seen a very different method used for that utilizing very large nets & that is done close to shore.

I don't know why a drug operation would use a trap and let it loose in the ocean.  In my mind, it would be vulnerable to drift nets, or drifting on it's own.  How would anyone find it?

I think it would be an odd way to do business.  

What I do remember is at least one or more holes that some suggest Natalee was stored in for maybe a day.  Those, IIRC, were the kind used for drug dealing.  Drug dealers would arrive and drop their stuff in the hole, cover, and take off.  The hole was the same all the time.  Easy to find if you knew where it was.

[texasmom]

the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only.
<snip>
the FBI gave them to Dave H
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

....snip for brevity.........

On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.
snip>
The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day.[/b] 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366321#msg366321


The trap contents weren't sampled until the 7th of January.  Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366312#msg366312


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289#msg366289
Human remains were found


the items found inside the trap
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366281#msg366281



Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap
<snip>
Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047#msg360047

Kermit,

This question may have been answered before but would you, or anyone who knows the facts, know why the stills of the trap that were posted at great objection by Kyle appear to have been taken from WITHIN the trap itself, and not thru the mesh as if the photographer were on the outside looking in? THis is something that has bugged me since Feb. Those shots look remarkably clear and yet still grainy. But I don't see any echo or shadow of the mesh..... Am I mistaken?

I just rewatched the MSNBC Dateline footage of the official dive and am left scratching my head over this:

If the trap itself is 90' below the surface, why did the divers have so little time left in their tanks to explore? How long does it take to dive 90' and how much oxygen do the tanks hold? Why didn't the divers open the cage or at least attempt to open it and allow the cameraman who was filming THEM to film within the cage? Or did they?

If the trap findings made Trahan give the thumbs down sign, why did the Authorities bother to RETURN for recovering and sampling ANYTHING and then give results for NOTHING? I assume the divers didn't recover a single thing while on the Persistance that key day?

Actually my real wonderment is in the time that lagged between the 30 Dec and the return with the DATELINE crew...... why didn't the Persistance divers not just jump in and enter the damned cage when they found it?REALLY!!!!! Who of us given these circumstances and knowing diving experience and money spent would wait another MINUTE before throwing themselves into the water and go right down there right then and there? THEY ALL KNEW that doing it "by the book" was getting the Holloways absolutely nowhere!

Anyone know these answers?

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

[Blonde]

I turned him

[texasmom]

The only ones I recognize now are Mos and Dolph.  Don't think green shirt is Papito.  Does Bulldog have a camera around his neck?  Why do the Arubans have "visitor" name tags?  I would think the crew would recognize a non-crew member.   

Was this whole scene just a photo op?

Did anyone dive between Christmas Eve and Dec. 30th?

I thought at first that bulldog had the camera, but if you watch the video...I think he's standing BESIDE the guy with the camera.

I don't think they ever dove on the site until Dec 29th, Mos and the rest on board on the 30th.  That is what I gathered from the video.  But of course we could have been misled.

[teacat]

I believe that when Kyle described the cage, he said one side was not in good shape and the door was actually laying on the floor of the cage.  The items sampled IIRC were on top of the door.  So they could easily view inside without looking through mesh.

if the door is on the floor, do you mean the cage's door is on the ocean floor? if so, do you mean the items sampled were still inside the cage or laying on top of the cage?  Either way, the photos still look like the things Kermit circled (the shoe) are INSIDE a cage. How does the camera appear to be inside with the items? Can someone post the photos again so we know what I'm talking about?

[teacat]

What do you think he's thinking here.

"oh S***! oh S***! oh S***!"?