Natalee Case Discussion #837 6/10/10 - 6/12/10

[crazybabyborg]

Hello everyone.  Hope all are well...

Hi third!

Thanks AZ! Sorry you lost your post! Whether he planned to murder again on the anniversary or not is intriguing to me. Joran is more diabolical than I even thought. That has come to light for me in a new way since Stephany's murder. He's so darn layed back and cold!

Even his words of explanation: "I didn't want to kill her, but she invaded my privacy."  That's chilling to me and a scarey glimpse at his thought processes. That sounds like Hannibal Lechter to me!

Hey yourself CBB! 

You sre spot on.  The man  is a diabolical...that's for sure!  What's even scarier is that I'd be willing to bet the farm the description of him being a serial killer isn't as far fetched as some may think...

I'm thinking there will be others. He killed with his hands. I think he liked the feel, up close and personal. It's an acquired taste.

[yuknomenot]

Video shows when Dutchman pretends not to have the key to enter room hotel
 
The following is an exclusive video of when the Dutchman pretends not to hold the key to the room she shared with Flores Stephany. Even Joran Van Der Sloot aide calls a hotel to open the room as if nothing had happened.

http://www.frecuencialatina.com.pe/90segundos/detalle.php?Catid=89&NewsId=35976#

I am sitting here stunned.  Again.  He just cannot ever be allowed to be free again.  And those who have aided him in any way should be locked up with him.  Anita and Julia should be at the top of the list, Paulus escaped prematurely.

Look at how totally calm he is!  I think he notices the camera again at the last minute is alll that prevents him from going through with his cherade.

This alone is proof of cold blooded murder.  And the anniversary is intentional because he could have robbed and killed her the day before.  I also think he likely removed her pants after killing her to try to make this look like a sexual assault.

Yes, he truly is a monster.

I think it was intentional too.  So many Monkeys have pointed out the similarities between Natalee and Stephany, there are too many of them for it to be anything but intentional.  Someone noticed a few posts back that he went to get coffee after he'd killed her because he'd already changed shirts.  I hope that was the reason he removed her pants and not something else horrendously sick and depraved.

[AZLady]

The new video seems to show his attempt to create an alibi after the fact.  Stephany is in the room, dead.  Joran has changed his clothes.  He wants someone to see him to give him an alibi, so he grabs the two coffee cups and goes out into the hall.  He stands around acting like he can't get into the room.  He wants to give the appearance of a man who went out for coffee and just came back.  This is a really stupid charade and since no one comes by to see him, he probably realizes that.  He's not as bright as people say and since Daddy Sloot isn't there to dispose of the body, he's trying to fumble around and create an alibi.  I guess he figured out it was lame because he fled shortly after.

[crazybabyborg]

The new video seems to show his attempt to create an alibi after the fact.  Stephany is in the room, dead.  Joran has changed his clothes.  He wants someone to see him to give him an alibi, so he grabs the two coffee cups and goes out into the hall.  He stands around acting like he can't get into the room.  He wants to give the appearance of a man who went out for coffee and just came back.  This is a really stupid charade and since no one comes by to see him, he probably realizes that.  He's not as bright as people say and since Daddy Sloot isn't there to dispose of the body, he's trying to fumble around and create an alibi.  I guess he figured out it was lame because he fled shortly after.

It looks like he spots the security camera at one point. I agree......... he decided to get the heck out of dodge.

[thirdstrike]

If he had planned to kill a woman on May 30, he would not have taken her back to his hotel room to kill her.  Killers who plan the crime try, to some extent, to cover it up, too.  Not just afterwards, but before, too.  If his intent was to kill Stephany on May 30, he would have taken her to a dark place in her jeep, killed her and left her there or disposed of her body.  I don't think he began his interlude with Stephany with the intention to murder her.  He did plan to steal her money, possibly rape her and then leave.  He can't control his rage and killed her when she rejected him.  IMHO

Of course anything is possible AZ.  But IMO, it's WAY too much of a coincidence.  Also, Not sure I agree with the coverup part as well.  I believe he wanted to be caught, as doing so with thrust him back into the spotlight.  Maybe not planning to murder her persay.  I guess the possible rejection could have been a motive.  But, the date definetely had some bearing on when he was to commit the crime.  Again, far too much of a coincidence IMO...

[Anna]

I think he did plan it all out beforehand as shown in that last video.  He just lost his nerve at the last minute.  The plan was to return with TWO coffees, pretend he was locked out, ask for the door to be opened by management and pretend to discover her killed.

Maybe it was the camera that caused him to back out of this at the last minute or maybe the stoic Peruvians were not his ideal audience for such a performance or it just dawned on him his exiting the room with the cups in hand would also be on camera that caused him to back out of this plan.

It must have played much better in his head that in real life.  Also explains why he took so long to get the coffee, to give plenty of time for the crime to have been committed in his absence.

But this coming out of the room then pretending to be locked out is just chilling as is his totally calm demeanor.


,

[Bearlyhere]

Video of transfer this morning from one of the motorcycles chasing the convoy,  You can see Joran in this one several times.

http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2010/06_juni/10/binnenland/advocaat_joran_verklaring.xml

Do you think they have  let him change his drawers yet?

[AZLady]

The new video of Joran in the striped shirt with two cups of coffee was not made when he went to get the coffee.  He had already gone for coffee, come back and killed Stephany.  In the video, we can see him come out of his hotel room with the coffee cups and a clean shirt.  Then, he stands around as if he can't get into the room and taps on the door, putting on a show for anyone who happens by.

[IBE]

Sorry for mistakes in grammar and spelling; Am half asleep.

[thirdstrike]

...someone noticed a few posts back that he went to get coffee after he'd killed her because he'd already changed shirts.  I hope that was the reason he removed her pants and not something else horrendously sick and depraved.

Tell whomever posted that...GOOD EYE!!  I initially believed the theory that he killed her after he came back from getting coffee (and the whole looking at his laptop thing).  But seeing this newest video, I think it totally proves the fact that he killed her much earlier...changed out of his bloody clothes...then went out to get coffee as he attempted to establish an alibi.  Thanks for helping me realize my flawed logic...

[Hat]

Hi Klaasend, thanks for the greeting!  Wow, I have some major catching up to do around here, but it really is great to see some old familiar names.  I'm kind of sad to see that avatars aren't in use here anymore.  I think it was you who created the "Monkey Bus" with all of our avatar photos added to the bus, if memory serves me right.  Anyway, the bus was a hoot.  It may take me a day or two to get up to speed on all things new (looking at all the new message functions - very cool), but glad to be back.

The Monkey Bus.. I missed it for I was to shy to post at the time. Remember Bendix?

Hello Monkey Family   We almost all back but Peaches, bless her.
We have all held together here for a reason greater than we know now.
Love, IBE

Bendix is doing great. He has a new bride and a good life in Paraguay, although as we know, he is a citizen of the world in all its glory - and wise to its sadness and tragedy.

He sent me this very clear (expand to full screen when it loads) and complete video link from De Telegraaf, it's in Dutch, but the video speaks. It is chilling

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6895029/__Woedeaanval_Joran_dodelijk__.html?p=37,1

Hope it works, it did for me.
Best wishes to Third, Rob, OSM, CBB and a couple dozen others. I am enjoying reading your posts. Thanks for your work.

Hat

[crazybabyborg]

If he had planned to kill a woman on May 30, he would not have taken her back to his hotel room to kill her.  Killers who plan the crime try, to some extent, to cover it up, too.  Not just afterwards, but before, too.  If his intent was to kill Stephany on May 30, he would have taken her to a dark place in her jeep, killed her and left her there or disposed of her body.  I don't think he began his interlude with Stephany with the intention to murder her.  He did plan to steal her money, possibly rape her and then leave.  He can't control his rage and killed her when she rejected him.  IMHO

Of course anything is possible AZ.  But IMO, it's WAY too much of a coincidence.  Also, Not sure I agree with the coverup part as well.  I believe he wanted to be caught, as doing so with thrust him back into the spotlight.  Maybe not planning to murder her persay.  I guess the possible rejection could have been a motive.  But, the date definetely had some bearing on when he was to commit the crime.  Again, far too much of a coincidence IMO...

This is just my opinion, but in my own mind I'm very sure of it: If Joran did not plan to murder on the 5th anniversary of Natalee's murder, then God made sure that when the murder occurred, it would be clear that the prayers for justice for Natalee had been heard. The date makes it impossible to extract Natalee from the justice about to be handed down.

[AZLady]

We have not seen the video of him leaving the room at 8:10 to get coffee and coming back at 8:40.  One of the TV announcers, I think Jean Casares, said he was wearing his white long sleeved shirt and jeans when he went out for coffee.  Stephany was still alive until he came back from the coffee run.

[IBE]

Notice in the video how he knocks and then his hand goes limp like a wimp IMO
Karma is a B******

[yuknomenot]

He actually comes out of the room carrying the coffee.  He appears so calm. He has been winging it for so long that this doesn't phase him at all.  It's like he sees the security cams, says oh look a camera and continues on with the plan.  Apparently he couldn't figure out how to get the guy into the room.  Also, when he first opens the door there is a long pause before he actually exits the room, he must have been checking something out.

[thirdstrike]

The new video of Joran in the striped shirt with two cups of coffee was not made when he went to get the coffee.  He had already gone for coffee, come back and killed Stephany.  In the video, we can see him come out of his hotel room with the coffee cups and a clean shirt.  Then, he stands around as if he can't get into the room and taps on the door, putting on a show for anyone who happens by.

If that's the case, has anyone seen the video (or has it been released) of him leaving the room to get the coffee )and what he was wearing when he did)?  That visual would go a long way in establishing what we think may have happened...

[Anna]

He comes back with the coffee, removes her pants to simulate an attempted sexual attack which he may have just thought of as a finishing touch, takes the cups out in the hallway and does the charade.  It had to be very soon after he was seen walking through the lobby with the cups as he would have been seen and on tape there as well. 

But we are all just speculatiing what we see in the tapes and anything is possible.

No one knows his motives  except for Joran.  We may think we know another person's motives but that's one thing one can never know for a fact.

Again, anything is possible but this tape is the most damning of anything released so far, IMO, whatever his intentions with these actions was.

.

[yuknomenot]

...someone noticed a few posts back that he went to get coffee after he'd killed her because he'd already changed shirts.  I hope that was the reason he removed her pants and not something else horrendously sick and depraved.

Tell whomever posted that...GOOD EYE!!  I initially believed the theory that he killed her after he came back from getting coffee (and the whole looking at his laptop thing).  But seeing this newest video, I think it totally proves the fact that he killed her much earlier...changed out of his bloody clothes...then went out to get coffee as he attempted to establish an alibi.  Thanks for helping me realize my flawed logic...

I don't think it's possible to have flawed logic with anything concerning Joran because, literally, the possibilities are endless.

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Klaasend, thanks for the greeting!  Wow, I have some major catching up to do around here, but it really is great to see some old familiar names.  I'm kind of sad to see that avatars aren't in use here anymore.  I think it was you who created the "Monkey Bus" with all of our avatar photos added to the bus, if memory serves me right.  Anyway, the bus was a hoot.  It may take me a day or two to get up to speed on all things new (looking at all the new message functions - very cool), but glad to be back.

The Monkey Bus.. I missed it for I was to shy to post at the time. Remember Bendix?

Hello Monkey Family   We almost all back but Peaches, bless her.
We have all held together here for a reason greater than we know now.
Love, IBE

Bendix is doing great. He has a new bride and a good life in Paraguay, although as we know, he is a citizen of the world in all its glory - and wise to its sadness and tragedy.

He sent me this very clear (expand to full screen when it loads) and complete video link from De Telegraaf, it's in Dutch, but the video speaks. It is chilling

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6895029/__Woedeaanval_Joran_dodelijk__.html?p=37,1

Hope it works, it did for me.
Best wishes to Third, Rob, OSM, CBB and a couple dozen others. I am enjoying reading your posts. Thanks for your work.

Hat

Hat! It's ALWAYS so very good to see you!!!! Thanks for the link........... going to watch now!

[Anna]

The new video of Joran in the striped shirt with two cups of coffee was not made when he went to get the coffee.  He had already gone for coffee, come back and killed Stephany.  In the video, we can see him come out of his hotel room with the coffee cups and a clean shirt.  Then, he stands around as if he can't get into the room and taps on the door, putting on a show for anyone who happens by.

If that's the case, has anyone seen the video (or has it been released) of him leaving the room to get the coffee )and what he was wearing when he did)?  That visual would go a long way in establishing what we think may have happened...

He would have to have been wearing that hideous striped shirt when he went for the coffee or the front desk when he went for the key would have noticed he changed shirts.  Anyone would notice that shirt, even in the dark, etc.

So he would not want to give the impression he changed shirts in the hall en route to his room?  That wouldn't make sense.  He had to go back to the front desk for the key very quickly after walking through with the two cups and in the same clothing for this to have worked at all.

.