Natalee Case Discussion #837 6/10/10 - 6/12/10

[Dragnet]

The cups he was carrying appear to be empty.

He went to AIRBUCKS. It happened like a lot of things, only in his head.

Carpe the photo's of him holding the cups - even if they are millisecond shots from the camera " frames" - there is no way if that was HOT Liquid he would be able to rest those cups against his body ..and or hold them so gingerly ~ between his fingers/hands etc. I don't care how big your hands are. HOT is HOT.  Anyone that has ever gone and got Hot Coffee - knows. Styrofoam, paper, cardboard cups alike .. they are HOT to touch. Adding into the time frame. The cups could have been in Stephany's car from the night before. He is clearly too looking at that Camera " the other photo" ..for the first time. His pupils are UP and he is unemotional - yet He see's that Camera -he is wondering if he has been on candid camera all this time. I think he is wondering? Is that actually a camera capturing live, has anyone been watching  or is it a fake? . His mind is flipping out ...of the unknown.
UNLESS that camera really is not seen by the naked eye. That it is within the ceiling tiles and or within a mirror of some sort ( at the end of the hallway- the bubble mirrors that show you around the corner)
I tried to find the Hotel Tac - This is the only site I could come up with. It does offer hotel photos - very slight. Yet it does offer a Photo of Inside " A Room" of the Hotel. Seems to be mediocre at best.  I am pretty sure this is the same hotel. I could be wrong. But I don't think I am. The lobby photo looks the same.
http://www.guiahostal.com/lima/hotel_tac.htm

This is another site that I found - on the Hotel. No photos. Just info. Very basic.
http://lima.hotelguide.net/data/h100149.htm
Snipped:
Check In Time:   7:00 am
Check Out Time:   12:00 pm
Rate Range (USD):   From $30 to $50 per night *
Nearest Airport:   Jorge Chavez International (LIM)
In Rooms:   Cable TV. Safe.
Services:   24-Hour Security. Airport Transportation. Car Rental. City Transportation. Concierge. 24-Hour Room Service. Valet Parking. Wake Up Service.
Special Amenities:   Bar/Lounge. Complimentary Breakfast. Parking Garage.
Other Info:   Exterior Room Entrance. Interior Room Entrance. Multi-lingual Staff. Non-Smoking Rooms. Smoking Rooms. Alternative Lifestyle Friendly. Self Parking. 
* I have never seen that in a description of any hotel/motel as a information piece " Alternative Lifestyle Friendly" - What does that mean? That's a wide open statement on their part.  What do they allow S&M parties to use their rooms? Prostitutes? Johns? Just thinking when he/Joran was to have said " Don't disturb my Girl" was that to the staff ..she was paid for? I am not being funny - I am wondering.

Greta had an interview one night with Mark Fuhrman and he was reporting from the Hotel Tac.  He showed a room similar to Room 309 and then he went and stood outside Room 309 and had the camera man pan up to show the camera.  It is very clear on the wall right outside/above the room, but to be honest, it looked more like a smoke detector to me.  He did say however, that down at the front desk, there were about 16 (I think) screens showing surveillance of what was going on in the hotel from various camera angles.  He said with JVDS staying there as long as he did prior to the incident, he would have to have known there were cameras all throughout the hotel.  I'll see if I can find that video.

Here's the link to the video.  The shot of the camera outside Room 309 is at about the 7 minute mark. 

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/news/watch/v20163115NzqgArm6#

[klaasend]

Open trial of Joran Van der Sloot (with video)
The murder of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores

LIMA (AP) - A judge on Friday opened criminal proceedings for homicide Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, who is accused of killing with "great ferocity and cruelty," the young Peruvian Stephany Flores, said the Superior Court of Lima.

Judge Juan Buendia of the court in Time Permanent Court of Lima, indicted the Dutchman, 22, on suspicion of homicide crimes against property and, in the form of simple theft, and provided that addresses the process stopped on a penalty.

The foreigner was taken on Friday of the cell occupied by the Public Prosecutor (OTP) and transferred to the detention of the headquarters of the Judiciary.

He was subsequently admitted to the Miguel Castro Castro, Lima. The warden, Rubén Rodríguez, told journalists that the Dutchman asked to be away from other inmates for fear of being killed. The official said he was assigned to a one-man cell away from the prisoners.

According to Peruvian law, the crimes he is charged are punishable by between 15 and 35 years in prison, said a spokesman for the Superior Court of Lima (CSJ), Luis Garcia.

The Dutchman confessed to killing Flores, 21, on 30 May in the hotel room he was staying in a rage because he discovered about his past staring at your laptop.

The alien is still the main accused in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway in Aruba in 2005, a case that was never solved.

Van der Sloot was arrested in connection with his disappearance, even on two occasions but was released for lack of evidence.

About 200 onlookers crowded the street to see if Van der Sloot was taken by police in a van, along with 11 other prisoners, to make it enter the judiciary. Shouting "unfortunate", "damn" and "murderer", people tried to get close to hit, which was prevented by the agents.

The complaint by the prosecutor Ninfa Espinoza, head of the Provincial Prosecutor Forty Criminal Court, against Van der Sloot, said that the Dutchman killed Flores with aggravating to have acted with "great ferocity and cruelty," said the CSJ.

Colonel Miguel Canlla, head of the Homicide Division of Criminal Investigation Police (Dirincri) on Thursday said Van der Sloot, 1.91 meters tall, struck violently with his elbow to Flores in the face height nose, strangled her, and gave him fist blows to the face, threw her to the ground causing him a fracture in the frontal region of the skull, and seeing he was still breathing choked her with his shirt.

The Peruvian lawyer of Van der Sloot, Maximum Highness, told the AP that "by order of the family and lawyers strategy is not going to make any declarations on the opening of the process.

Said the Dutchman's mother, Anita Van der Sloot will arrive in Lima in early next week.

On the eve Highness said the defense will claim that Van der Sloot committed the crime of homicide by "violent emotion", which implies a penalty of not more than nine years in prison, also filed a habeas corpus alleging that his client's rights were violated during police questioning, which seeks to challenge to be canceled.

The lawyer for the family of the victim, Edwar Alvarez, said they were complying with the crimes attributed to Van der Sloot, but seek to add the crime of "concealing" and the Dutchman tried to hide the crime.

"They are independent behaviors, first kill, the victim being dead seizes their property, after seizing their property, where there is evidence that the truck is the young, and disappears from the place," Alvarez said the AP.

The arrest of Van der Sloot in Peru revived the case of the disappearance of Holloway in Aruba, which had a major impact in the U.S. too.

General Cesar Guardia Dirincri chief, told The Associated Press yesterday that the Dutchman told police he knows the whereabouts of the body of the young American, but said that "only testify (on the Holloway case) to the Aruban authorities. " Guard said he did not know how seriously to take such testimony.

Last week a U.S. court indicted Van der Sloot of attempted extortion in April for calling the Holloway family $ 250,000 to reveal the location of her body. The FBI set a trap for Van der Sloot and paid $ 25,000 into thinking it was a first payment of Holloway.

The Dutchman took the money and used it to finance his trip to Peru, where he arrived on 14 May.

http://www.wapa.tv/noticias.php?nid=20100611154937&source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WapatvNoticias+%28WAPA.TV%3A+Noticias%29

So Anita decided staying until the end of the Aruban International Film Festival was over was more important than her son being charge with murder?  Just like Val decided that it wasn't going to stop him from a night out on the town? 

I think I'd be so ashamed of myself that I'd be unable to show my face in public.  That tells me that they all know what Joran was capable of.  This was not a surprise to them just as it wasn't a surprise to us.

[Magnolia]

Why the hell Greta looks baffled by all of this is beyond me.  She should have been reading SM all these years.

You know-I don't understand this ... did she really fall in love with the guy?  Or is there a braincell mis-connection in her head? 

His charming side snowed her and she never bothered to look at the other side of him.
Remember, she tried to blame Boeti for years.

Oh-you're right-I forgot about Boeti;  But a good lawyer does not allow themselves to give in to sensate emotion.  The intellect & facts must rule-it saves everyone a lot of pain & embarrassment, not to mention serving Lady Justice.  And that's what it's all about.   Perhaps she is unable to disconnect from her Defense attorny mode in real life situations.  Sort of as hobbling around on a lame foot-she'll never be able to get in the race.

Everybody gets snookered once in a while.  I think that is what Joran did to Greta.

[MisGivings]

*  Hi guy... care for a biscuit?






* Oh, there is a camera. I can always find one if I am in the room.

for some reason LE peru didnt release this video so he could continue with his lie and get caught. he just was 4 minutes outside the room.

Maybe he didn't see the camera and thought it was a smoke detector instead?

[Northern Rose]

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/police-officers/photo//100611/481/urn_publicid_ap_org4825f3ba501840f489bf5afecd5dafd9//s:/ap/20100612/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/van_der_sloot#photoViewer=/100611/ids_photos_wl/r256011359.jpg

[Brandi]

Found this in flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcelo_montecino/4052117/in/photostream/

(Didn't want to hotlink to it.)

[Ono]

Greta said this is a young many where you can have a normal conversation and then goes in another room and murders someone.

She sounds as if she's surprised by that.  After watching the video tapes this week of the casino and hotel is it finally sinking in for her?

I'll have to watch her re-run ... thought San meant she was talking about the prison-lol.

[ozziesmom]

Greta said this is a young many where you can have a normal conversation and then goes in another room and murders someone.

She sounds as if she's surprised by that.  After watching the video tapes this week of the casino and hotel is it finally sinking in for her?

I'll have to watch her re-run ... thought San meant she was talking about the prison-lol.

Greta is one of those very niave women, I don't know how her panel dosen't laugh in her face at some of the things she says! OH GRETA, you need to get schooled!!!!men LIE!!!!

[Northern Rose]

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/police-officers/photo//100611/481/urn_publicid_ap_org4825f3ba501840f489bf5afecd5dafd9//s:/ap/20100612/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/van_der_sloot#photoViewer=/100610/ids_photos_wl/r2600927069.jpg

[MisGivings]

On Greta - Joran's prison will be very basic conditions and he will probably have a bucket in the corner to use as a bathroom.

I bet behing the scenes she's trying for an interview as we speak.

Yup, she is probably trying to figure out how to get the next $100,000 to him.

[tesfan]

snipped

for some reason LE peru didnt release this video so he could continue with his lie and get caught. he just was 4 minutes outside the room.

He was waiting outside the room for 4 minutes??????

I also think he has already killed her......look at the shirt he has on, it is the one he left the hotel in.....I would figure that he took a shower after he killed her and changed his clothes....so he went to get coffee AFTER he murdered her!
[/quote]

That most likely is when he first saw a camera and he had to try to figure out what the heck to do next, I don't think he knew there was a camera there before this.
[/quote]

Somewhere among the many posts, videos, and TV coverage, I heard that there were a number of monitoring screens in the office.  Perhaps he thought the cameras were for surveillance only and not recording.

To me, when he sees the camera, he has a look of confusion and slight panic.  Was he wondering if they had seen him from the front desk? Was he waiting to see if someone from the front desk would notice he was locked out and would come unlock the door? Was he, was he, was he....sadly we will never know what he was really thinking.

[Ono]

Why the hell Greta looks baffled by all of this is beyond me.  She should have been reading SM all these years.

You know-I don't understand this ... did she really fall in love with the guy?  Or is there a braincell mis-connection in her head? 

His charming side snowed her and she never bothered to look at the other side of him.
Remember, she tried to blame Boeti for years.

Oh-you're right-I forgot about Boeti;  But a good lawyer does not allow themselves to give in to sensate emotion.  The intellect & facts must rule-it saves everyone a lot of pain & embarrassment, not to mention serving Lady Justice.  And that's what it's all about.   Perhaps she is unable to disconnect from her Defense attorny mode in real life situations.  Sort of as hobbling around on a lame foot-she'll never be able to get in the race.

Everybody gets snookered once in a while.  I think that is what Joran did to Greta.

That's true-but you'd think by now she would have gotten over it and returned his fraternity pin-lol.

[Lifesong]

Why the hell Greta looks baffled by all of this is beyond me.  She should have been reading SM all these years.

You know-I don't understand this ... did she really fall in love with the guy?  Or is there a braincell mis-connection in her head? 

His charming side snowed her and she never bothered to look at the other side of him.
Remember, she tried to blame Boeti for years.

Oh-you're right-I forgot about Boeti;  But a good lawyer does not allow themselves to give in to sensate emotion.  The intellect & facts must rule-it saves everyone a lot of pain & embarrassment, not to mention serving Lady Justice.  And that's what it's all about.   Perhaps she is unable to disconnect from her Defense attorny mode in real life situations.  Sort of as hobbling around on a lame foot-she'll never be able to get in the race.

Everybody gets snookered once in a while.  I think that is what Joran did to Greta.

I also think that Greta was a defense attorney, not a prosecutor.  I think that could make a difference too. 

JMO

[Northern Rose]

I still think this may be Anita in disguise in Peru.  Love the meat cleaver.

[TURBOTHINK]

On Greta - Joran's prison will be very basic conditions and he will probably have a bucket in the corner to use as a bathroom.

Did you hear the guy on there who said most of the prisoners there were murderers and terrorists and that Joran will be in solitary for 4-5 months until they can integrate him into the prison out of fear he will be killed, but then the man reporter said he had never seen a mob like this after a prisoner before, that this crowd was furious and it was because it was so brutal, and he further went on to say that even the prison security people fear that Joran will be killed by the other prisoners even after 4-5 months and that this going to be a security nightmare for them.  

One, I hope they don't kill him before he tells where Ntalie is buried. I still think she is on the family "compound" most likely in a well, cistern, or under some concrete they poured after her death.

Two, it won't take a prisoner for him to be "hit" - guards can be bought. For a small amount of money in our country one could buy two or three guards.  

[Tylergal]

Joran saw the camera after about 35 seconds.  He then stepped back for 4 minutes.  He then returned and knocked on the door, or pretended to.  They were saying on Greta that he just pretended he knocked, but I think his hand was hurt, the reason he did not knock but the reason he called help is as we know, that he wanted the hotel employee to find her body and be surprised.  It did not happen that way so he had to do something else. 

I find it interesting that the prison he is going to is for murderers and terrorists.  I wonder if any FARC folks are there.  If so, our politicians will be down there campaigning. 

[Tylergal]

Ono, that's too funny, returned his frat pin.
Remember she supported OJ.  Maybe she just has this self-destructive gene that is longing for a man to beat her.

Well, I need to get off computer and do some ironing.

The next time I see you guys, we may have Joran van doneScrewed.

[Hat]

On Greta - Joran's prison will be very basic conditions and he will probably have a bucket in the corner to use as a bathroom.

I bet behing the scenes she's trying for an interview as we speak.

Yup, she is probably trying to figure out how to get the next $100,000 to him.

Well what OT Level is she? I think her husband is OT VII and can therefore "project intention". High OT levels consider themselves to have some pretty remarkable powers and are therefore very hard to deceive. If Greta does not anticipate something the facts must be suspect.

[Ono]

Lifesong:  But it seems as though Greta has had a lobotomy of sorts! lol

[TURBOTHINK]

Greta said this is a young many where you can have a normal conversation and then goes in another room and murders someone.

She sounds as if she's surprised by that.  After watching the video tapes this week of the casino and hotel is it finally sinking in for her?

I'll have to watch her re-run ... thought San meant she was talking about the prison-lol.

She seems to have a blind spot when it comes sociopaths. If you remember she was also taken in by the Anthonys in the Caylee Anthony case. She believed Cindy and fell for all her lies.