Caylee Marie Anthony- MURDER TRIAL- DAY 17- 6/13/2011

[beth1970]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/casey-anthony-trial-judge-adjourns-early-because-state-1536319.html

 ::snipping2::
In addition, the defense filed a motion for the court to issue a certificate to compel out-of-state witnesses Vass, Wise and another Oak Ridge National Lab PhD., Madhavi Martin.

The motion filed by Cheney Mason says these individuals "will be required in order to safeguard Casey Anthony's constitutional rights to present evidence and confront evidence asserted against her."

"The trial testimony of these witnesses is essential to the integrity of the fact finding process in this case and the presentation of relevant scientific evidence for the jury's consideration and evaluation," the motion says.

In response, Judge Perry today signed a certificate of summons for material witnesses, naming Martin, Vass, and Wise.
 ::snipping2::

Oh this should be interesting.

Madhavi Martin is a woman...is this the woman who Baez was trying to infer that Vass was not reporting the report she wrote correctly?  And, would the author of the report agree with what Vass testified to on the stand?

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/PGG/martin_bio.htm

I am predicting ORNL attorneys will try to squelch this subpoena as they know bozo is trying to get security protected information. The have told him three times now the procedures for getting the info and my guess is he can't get a security clearance as they require.

She is in the Plant Genomics Group & worked with Vass. Her background is Physics specialty is in Environmental Impacts. I am not sure what bozo wants from her except that security protected patent information.

Madhavi Z. Martin, Nicole Labbé, Nicolas André, Ronny Harris, Michael Ebinger, Stan D. Wullschleger, and Arpad A. Vass, “High resolution applications of laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy for environmental and forensic applications”, Spectrochimica Acta Part B vol 62 No.12 (2007) 1426-32.

couldn't he just get someone else on her "team" who COULD get clearance do it?  I'm not sure how all this works so I'm sorry if this is a stupid question!

[Grandma2Maddie]

Good night all see ya in the afternoon for more witnesses! 

[IBE]

beth1970  said

I wonder why no one noticed her pulled off on the side of the road carrying a garbage bag? (when she threw away the baby)  Is that what happened? [/unquote]

It was very late at night or very early before dawn, otherwise there would be school traffic IMOcc



According to Giraldo on now, the death penalty is for herandous crimes. OK Mr. G, what is this one?  A murder of a child, IMO, is a murder of a child.

Train is going through again. Wonder how often it does each day. Some there should be put on the tracks to scare the S out of them. I have been stuck in a stuck in the back of a coupe stalled on the tracks when a train was coming. Car got started, otherwise wouldn't be writing here. Sort of reminded me of Bozo's question to the detective if Casey had ever committed suicide; while she wouldn't be here now!

[IBE]

meant "horrendous" forgot to use spelling check. Thank goodness we have one here! ::justice2NJ:: and dedicated to Peaches too.

[O4Bull]

beth1970  said

I wonder why no one noticed her pulled off on the side of the road carrying a garbage bag? (when she threw away the baby)  Is that what happened? [/unquote]

It was very late at night or very early before dawn, otherwise there would be school traffic IMOcc



According to Giraldo on now, the death penalty is for herandous crimes. OK Mr. G, what is this one?  A murder of a child, IMO, is a murder of a child.

Train is going through again. Wonder how often it does each day. Some there should be put on the tracks to scare the S out of them. I have been stuck in a stuck in the back of a coupe stalled on the tracks when a train was coming. Car got started, otherwise wouldn't be writing here. Sort of reminded me of Bozo's question to the detective if Casey had ever committed suicide; while she wouldn't be here now!

IBE, that was one of my favorite bozo bumbles!  I was listening on my phone while I was out running errands and I laughed out loud, literally.  I though Melich handled it well.  P.S.  Thanks for the well wishes.

[beth1970]

beth1970  said

I wonder why no one noticed her pulled off on the side of the road carrying a garbage bag? (when she threw away the baby)  Is that what happened? [/unquote]

It was very late at night or very early before dawn, otherwise there would be school traffic IMOcc



According to Giraldo on now, the death penalty is for herandous crimes. OK Mr. G, what is this one?  A murder of a child, IMO, is a murder of a child.

Train is going through again. Wonder how often it does each day. Some there should be put on the tracks to scare the S out of them. I have been stuck in a stuck in the back of a coupe stalled on the tracks when a train was coming. Car got started, otherwise wouldn't be writing here. Sort of reminded me of Bozo's question to the detective if Casey had ever committed suicide; while she wouldn't be here now!

IBE, that was one of my favorite bozo bumbles!  I was listening on my phone while I was out running errands and I laughed out loud, literally.  I though Melich handled it well.  P.S.  Thanks for the well wishes.

you know how they have those tv blooper shows - they should do one on the trial!

[O4Bull]

Stupid Leonard Padilla fanned the flames of incest.  He claimed to have overheard that the DNA markers of Caylee's weren't different enough from Kc.  He inferred that the reason would be either GA or LA was the father of Caylee.

the secretiveness
the lies, they all lie so much
the mob mentality / everyone is out to get them, so they'll get everyone else first
the stealing, cheating (both CA and GA)
the sheer lack of any moral compass is ASTOUNDING

is it any wonder they bred a psychopath?

I remember reading about the markers not being different enough. They did the paternity testing on George and Lee for a reason and it wasn't because they read SM or listened to LP.
LE had the paternity tests, the full ones from Jesse. What if it was a relative, a cousin or someone in the family who isn't George or Lee or Gramps in the home?

I have never typed this, because I know it won't go over well, but since others have said it before me, I'm gonna say it too.  Great Grandpa kinda gave me the creeps too.  I can't explain it, but I think that Cindy is so much like Kc it wouldn't surprise me if kc was molested that Cindy was molested too.  It reminds me so much of Patsy Ramsey.  I think she was molested as a young girl and that may be why she would "overlook" John Ramsey being inappropriate with JonBonet.  All JMO, but I think that's the case with the Ramsey family. 

I wonder if the markers would look close if it were a cousin?  Not as close, IMO as if it were GA or LA.  Seriously, if the State knows it's GA, why did they say that Caylee's father hadn't been determined very early on in the trial.  They would be lying if they knew GA to be the father and we know they tested him.

[Monkey King]

I wonder if Casey is going to laugh and snicker when they read the verdict....?

[TURBOTHINK]

If Baez is going to use Krystal Holloway's words in her February 17, 2010 interview with investigators are the foundation of his "accidental death" allegations ... he as some explaining to do in regards to his witness' words in the same transcript that reveals George's frustration of not knowing the whereabouts of his granddaughter's remains ... frustration that implies George was not a participant in the disposal process..


http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23070163/detail.html

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/interviews/kholloway021710.pdf

I don't think the defense will want to use that unless they are going to use it to bring the tape into evidence and show that others had the tape at the tents. It talks about George KNOWING that she killed Caylee.

[TURBOTHINK]

Does anyone know when the last time someone actually seen KC with her car?

What was the time frame that she used Amy's car? 

The last time she was seen with her car would have been the morn of June 27th, when she parked car next to the dumpster in the Amscot lot and called Tony to pick her up as she'd run out of gas, again....

She also had bags of groceries with her, presumed to have come from the Anthony house.....

I wonder why no one noticed her pulled off on the side of the road carrying a garbage bag? (when she threw away the baby)  Is that what happened?

According to people in the area when school was out (like it was on that date) that area is very deserted because it is a dead end road.

[Puzzler]

I don't know if anyone is watching HLN but they made a good point about the duct tape making it look like a kidnapping. that is a great point. I really do not think the duct tape was the murder weapon

WHY would a kidnapper put duct tape on a 25 lb child's face and hands? WHY would the kidnapping even be brought up since bozo has already said she was NOT kidnapped but drowned.

Um probably because in the beginning that is what Casey was saying, that it was a kidnapping. The duct tape would coincide with a kidnapping. This whole drowning thing is new. The defense was saying she was kidnapped for quite sometime. This also would coincide with Casey's 55 day theory. But she got locked up and was unable to finish the so called kidnapping story.

I think Cindy confronted KC on stealing money from her grandfather's account and a fight happened.  During the fight it was brought up by Cindy that she would take Caylee away cause she was an unfit mother.  I think that KC took Caylee and maybe Caylee was crying and upset she duct taped her mouth out of anger, hence the 3 pieces.  Caylee was keeping her from partying, taking all the attention from everyone and she was getting old enough to tell what KC was doing to her (thinking the chloroform or drugs) to put her to sleep.   Just my opinion.

Grandma, I think that's exactly what happened. 

Ditto....that has been my feeling since the beginning
On the kidnapping/duct tape issue, I can't see a kidnapper using duct tape being used on their victim all the way into their hair, maybe wrist and ankles or maybe over the mouth but not into the hair, but that is just my opinion.

It's bee my opinion from the beginning, too.

I guess in closing argument, the State will bring together Amy's comments about how KC wasn't getting along with Cindy and wanted her "freedom".  I didn't see a lot about the problems with "mom".  Maybe more will come out in the defense case. I think that KC's "main" driving factor was trying to spite mom.

Until recently, I took KC's partying and dancing and having fun as a sign of her freedom without Caylee; however, recently, I've come to think that KC's partying and dancing on the grave of Caylee was more KC's euphoria of having dealt the ultimate blow to Cindy.  Always the battle betweeen Cindy and KC for who's on top - KC's killing of Caylee got rid of the little snot head, got rid of the one person that KC was jealous of the most, got rid of the person that everyone doted on more that KC, and.....most of all....dealt a hurt beyond all hurts to her foe - Cindy.

Did she act any differently towards Cindy after killing Caylee?  If so you could definitely be on to something!

Well, she made all kinds of excuses why Cindy couldn't see or talk with Caylee.  She would rarely answer Cindy's calls.  Resorted to texting to get away from talking wither Cindy and toward the end, she just wouldn't answer Cindy at all.  Told lies, of course, as to where she was, etc.  Mainly, the difference with KC and Cindy was that KC wasn't home and neither was Caylee.
She stole some more money from Cindy...Cindy found out from her bank just before the 4th of July holiday and that's when Cindy asked Lee to look for Casey.  Cindy stated that she felt betrayed.  I always took that to mean that KC had promised to not take anymore money from Cindy and then the bank called to inform Cindy of a problem. 

[KCJackie]

Does anyone know when the last time someone actually seen KC with her car?

What was the time frame that she used Amy's car? 

The last time she was seen with her car would have been the morn of June 27th, when she parked car next to the dumpster in the Amscot lot and called Tony to pick her up as she'd run out of gas, again....

She also had bags of groceries with her, presumed to have come from the Anthony house.....

I wonder why no one noticed her pulled off on the side of the road carrying a garbage bag? (when she threw away the baby)  Is that what happened?

According to people in the area when school was out (like it was on that date) that area is very deserted because it is a dead end road.

  The school is the only thing at the end of that road.   

Her car was parked there at 7 am, she didn't call Tony til 11:30 am.

[KCJackie]

How could Casey even upload this to her photobucket account on June 26th knowing full well little Caylee was decomposing at the same time!! 

[VinceVixen]

Carpe, just for the heck of it.... what if KC and Bobo are lying about George?
Dont get me wrong.. he is a barnacle and pretty spineless, but to accuse someone of pedophilia and incest before the world? Do you honestly think they can back that type of accusation? It smacks of Bobo wanting to be the hot shot attorney he is jealous of. I dont buy that crap for 1 minute

hi flamom - 

I have based my theory on George's actions (and the entire family's). I was posting about it long before Casey ever wrote her first
letter about it. So, Baez and Casey did not influence me.

- the family hiding the pregnancy for 7 months
- they didn't even ask who the father was
- george cutting the cord
- casey making up imaginary fathers / killing the father off in her fantasies.
- george getting his ears pierced for casey (abnormal devotion)
- constantly calling her beautiful and gorgeous in jail (inappropriate setting)
- cindy saying on greta caylee never had a father ( of course she did - that loon )

It gets to a point where it's not just weird... it's too much to ignore.

I don't know if Baez can back it up. Probably not. George will always be a inappropriate weirdo though, I am sure of this.

It sure does blow my mind how he charms everybody with his dopey sweet paw paw act, though. He is a TOAD.

May I add...
kc never received any type of assistance from the State / either SS(if the father was deceased) or Welfare
as much as she stole, that would have been some cold hard cash she didn't have to work for
the only thing that ever made since to me about that whole situation was either incest (GA or LA) or a cousin.  Something that would humiliate the Anthony's and ruin the picture perfect image Cindy always tries to portray.

JMO (I used to be pretty certain LA or GA fathered Caylee for the reasons above.  Now, I'm not so sure and she's such a liar there's no way I'd just take her word for AnyThing!!... I'd have to have proof.)

Thanks for reminding me Casey never received welfare. If the dad was dead she could not.. not even get social security check for Caylee without being able to get dna. Or coulda been a one night stand. She could have had a case open for this with the state and never could find the father.
Or could be someone the family knows they don't want to have anyone find out..

To receive welfare (food stamps, medical, etc) she would NOT have to prove who the father was... She could simply say she didn't know and they would give her the benefits... She would have to show who the father was for the ss check but not for welfare...

[Blumonkey]

Stupid Leonard Padilla fanned the flames of incest.  He claimed to have overheard that the DNA markers of Caylee's weren't different enough from Kc.  He inferred that the reason would be either GA or LA was the father of Caylee.

the secretiveness
the lies, they all lie so much
the mob mentality / everyone is out to get them, so they'll get everyone else first
the stealing, cheating (both CA and GA)
the sheer lack of any moral compass is ASTOUNDING

is it any wonder they bred a psychopath?

I remember reading about the markers not being different enough. They did the paternity testing on George and Lee for a reason and it wasn't because they read SM or listened to LP.
LE had the paternity tests, the full ones from Jesse. What if it was a relative, a cousin or someone in the family who isn't George or Lee or Gramps in the home?

I have never typed this, because I know it won't go over well, but since others have said it before me, I'm gonna say it too.  Great Grandpa kinda gave me the creeps too.  I can't explain it, but I think that Cindy is so much like Kc it wouldn't surprise me if kc was molested that Cindy was molested too.  It reminds me so much of Patsy Ramsey.  I think she was molested as a young girl and that may be why she would "overlook" John Ramsey being inappropriate with JonBonet.  All JMO, but I think that's the case with the Ramsey family. 

I wonder if the markers would look close if it were a cousin?  Not as close, IMO as if it were GA or LA.  Seriously, if the State knows it's GA, why did they say that Caylee's father hadn't been determined very early on in the trial.  They would be lying if they knew GA to be the father and we know they tested him.

I can't imagine Cindy being abused and years later visiting her abuser, her own father, on Father's Day. We all know how vindictive she can be and that is not consistent with who she is. I also do not believe she would have exposed Caylee to a known pedophile.

[Puzzler]

Uh-oh, KC, death row inmates have no air-conditioning...hmm....in Florida....I guess that sucks for you!!

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/index.html#Routine


(snipped)
The Daily Routine of Death Row Inmates
Death Row &
Death Watch cells:   A Death Row cell is 6 x 9 x 9.5 feet high. Florida State Prison also has Death Watch cells to incarcerate inmates awaiting execution after the Governor signs a death warrant for them. A Death Watch cell is 12 x 7 x 8.5 feet high.

Men on Death Row are housed at Florida State Prison in Starke, FL, and Union Correctional Institution in Raiford, FL. The women on Death Row are housed at Lowell Correctional Institution Annex in Lowell, FL.

   ________________________________________
Meals:  Death Row inmates are served meals three times a day: at 5:00 am, from 10:30 am to 11:00 am and from 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm. Food is prepared by prison staff and transported in insulated carts to the cells. Inmates are allowed plates and spoons to eat their meals. Prior to execution, an inmate may request a last meal. To avoid extravagance, the food to prepare the last meal must cost no more than $40 and must be purchased locally.   
   ________________________________________   
Visitors:    All inmate visitors must be approved before visitation is allowed. Questions regarding an inmate's visiting day(s), visiting hours, and special visits should be directed to the Classification Officer responsible for the inmate at the inmate's assigned facility. Questions may be sent by letter, e-mail or by telephone. Members of the news media may request Death Row inmate interviews through the Department of Corrections Public Affairs Office at (850) 488-0420. The inmate must agree to the interview and the interview will be non-contact.   
   ________________________________________   
Showers: The inmates may shower every other day.   
   ________________________________________   
Security:     Death Row inmates are counted at least once an hour. They are escorted in handcuffs and wear them everywhere except in their cells, the exercise yard and the shower. They are in their cells at all times except for medical reasons, exercise, social or legal visits or media interviews. When a death warrant is signed the inmate is put under Death Watch status and is allowed a legal and social phone call.   
   ________________________________________   
Mail,
Magazines &
Entertainment:    Inmates may receive mail every day except holidays and weekends. They may have cigarettes, snacks, radios and 13" televisions in their cells. They do not have cable television or air-conditioning and they are not allowed to be with each other in a common room. They can watch church services on closed circuit television. While on Death Watch, inmates may have radios and televisions positioned outside their cell bars.   
   ________________________________________   
Clothing:  Death Row inmates can be distinguished from other inmates by their orange t-shirts. Their pants are the same blue colored pants worn by regular inmates.   

Statistics
The following statistics have been compiled from data collected since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. For more information on the inmates on Florida's Death Row, go to our Death Row Roster or our Execution List. These provide specific statistics on each inmate.


Statistics on Executed inmates in Florida*
*Refers to inmates executed after the death penalty was reinstated in Florida, beginning with John Spenkelink’s execution in May 1979.
    12.68 years is the average length of stay on Death Row prior to execution.
    14.29 years is the average number of years between offense and execution.
    44.41 years is the average age at time of execution.
    30.13 years is the average age at offense for executed inmates.
(snipped)

[Puzzler]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1241&start=550

Silverspnr Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:42 pm

I am a little amazed that so many here find the tattoo to be significant.

The state did an excellent job of laying out the indisputable fact that Casey was on a ME-ME-ME-LIES-LIES-LIES-PARTY-SHOP-SCREW-STEAL-PARTY-SHOP-SCREW-BORROW-PARTY-SHOP-SCREW-LAZE ABOUT-LIE-LIE-LIE-LIE-LIE tour for the entire 31 days.

The tattoo is a double-edged sword.
"Bella vita" can be interpreted and ARGUED BY THE LAWYERS to mean 2 diametrically opposed things:

Yes. One could argue that it signified her newfound freedom, in a "Screw Caylee! I'm living the GOOD LIFE now that the 'little snot' is finally out of my hair!" kind of way.

But yes, someone else could argue that it signified a troubled, grieving mother's TRIBUTE to her Caylee, a beautiful life. (And Casey saw to that FOR them when Lee questioned her about it during one of the jail house video visits.)

A skillful prosecutor will not open the door to that argument.
They don't need to prove she got a tattoo to prove the elements of ANY of the charges against her.
So, not only is it IRRELEVANT to their burden of proof, but it opens a can of worms for the jury to argue about what it meant. (You'd be surprised how a jury dispute over some vague and non-essential matter could end up hanging the jury on the real issues in the case.)

They obviously decided that the "HOT BODY CONTEST" Casey entered on the 20th was far more potent at getting the message to the jurors.

And think about it: there was no way for the defense to twist "HOT BODY CONTEST" around on them and insinuate to the jurors that she participated in that contest as some sort of alleged "tribute" to Caylee.

How many times did the jurors hear that Casey entered into a "HOT BODY CONTEST" just 4 days after even SHE now admits that Caylee was STONE, COLD DEAD.

That is what I would call prosecution-editorial GENIUS.

[Puzzler]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1241&start=650

Silverspnr Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:38 pm

Folks-
This trial is NOT OVER YET!
Try to reserve judgment about whether or not the STATE has met its burden of proof until:
You have heard ALL of the evidence; AND
You have carefully listened to the CLOSING ARGUMENTS; and
You pay attention to the jury instructions as delivered by Judge Perry, which set forth the LAW the jurors are tasked with following to reach their verdict.

This case is not yet "ripe" for a verdict.

And even when it is, be prepared for others to have different OPINIONS than your own.

If someone offers an opinion based on matters which were NOT IN EVIDENCE, it is easy to discount said opinion. For example, it is fine to disregard arguments about Casey's mental state --which is NOT a defense here, because the defense is not offering any "insanity" or "mental defect" defense. The defense is that Caylee's death was "accidental" and ergo, not a HOMICIDE. All of the alleged sexual abuse/family dysfunction is NOT a defense. The jury will NOT be instructed on any form of "insanity" or "mental defect" defense. In other words, they will not have an option to find her "not guilty by reason of insanity or mental defect". It will NOT APPEAR on their Verdict Form.

However, be prepared to accept that others may disagree about the STRENGTH of the state's case on the issue of PREMEDITATION.

She is charged with 1st Degree Murder.
But she is also, ALTERNATIVELY, charged with Aggravated Manslaughter.
There is a REASON for this.
If jurors cannot agree that the state proved she INTENTIONALLY KILLED her daughter, they may still agree that the state proved she recklessly (or even negligently) committed an act that resulted in the death of her daughter.

Murder and Aggravated Manslaughter are simply different classes of criminal HOMICIDE, but they are both FELONY KILLINGS nonetheless.

[ZooMomology]

If he were Caylee's father, his ass would be in jail right now.  IMO

Exactly. 

I am not so sure about that. She was of legal age so although it would be incest,it would not be illegal.

I am certainly no expert, but I am pretty sure incest is illegal?  Who knows, though.  Specially father-daughter incest. 

826.04 Incest. ---
Whoever knowingly marries or has sexual intercourse with a person to whom he is related by lineal consanguinity, or a brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, or niece, commits incest, which constitutes a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. "Sexual intercourse" is the penetration of the female sex organ by the male sex organ, however slight; emission of semen is not required.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/sex05.htm

So, IMO, if the police had any evidence that George was Caylee's father, which would be known by now, he would be in jail, IMO, of course. 

[beth1970]

Caylee probably conceived November 12 - 20th 2004 per this calculator.........

There's been some discussion about there not being enough "distance" between Casey & Caylee's dna thus causing speculation on the father perhaps being a relative & the paternity tests to rule out GA & LA.  So I found a reverse due date calculator & here is the results:
   

First Day of Last Menstrual Period:  November 2, 2004

Probable Date of Ovulation:  November 16, 2004

Possible Dates of Conception:  November 12 to November 20, 2004

Due Date:  August 9, 2005 (40 weeks)

This is definitely just a rough estimate, babies are seldom born when they're supposed to be.  Casey was young & healthy so I think it is more reliable for a younger mother than for someone my age! 

So where was Casey between 11/12/04 - 11/20/04?  (let's just say around the month of November 2004) Visiting any cousins or uncles?

here's the link for the calculator if anyone is interested
http://www.baby2see.com/conception_calculator.html#ConceptionCalculator