Lively Case Discussion #669 7/30 - 7/31/2007

[shadow]

Good afternoon Monkeys! Good discussions going on today. And thanks to whoever brought over nuts post re FL connections posted earlier in the week. I missed it as well. Hope evryone is doing well today!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Angie - your avatar looks short and squatty enough to be me instead of you. 

  LOL I mentioned to NONE a few days ago we look like dwarfs now.. so you shouldn't feel so bad anymore.. 

Welcome Back Starr and Chata ~!

  my tire swing complained this format makes it look fat 

later monkeys !

Yes, and my throne is a bit wider, don't you think? 

Couldn't resist, but really have to finish some things...I'l be back..

[MsVada]

Nut44x4

I have some saved files that may aid you in your Shango research, Its stuff we found way back in the early days.  I'd be happy to email them to you.

I am sure we can exchange emails if you want to......I bet Klaasend will help us with that.

Vada

[klaasend]

Ilarioba is Miguel Willie Ramos on this message board site
http://p206.ezboard.com/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

THIS ONE IS DISGUSTING!!! SICK!
http://p206.ezboard.com/Disposal-sacrifices-offerings/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=532.topic

WOW

Here's more on Miguel Willie Ramos (Ilari Oba):

http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html

http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/messages/14248.html

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/articlesmine/reflections2005.htm

[Dayhiker]

This is why I asked you to help me.. here it is in plain English-

All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven.

The words were hijacked by Cohen and Co. They changed the story around.

For weeks already - so obvious now.

The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. - not a confrontation between the ALE and Joran, but between the ATA, AHATA and the Aruban Authorities and the people that saw covering up the crime would be worse in the long run. They fought this one out and it got BRUTAL!

More lies woven - it is decided to lie. No turning back now. They lie to protect tourism.

Rob, what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense to me. I doubt PVDS would be going to St. Leo's to unenroll Joran from school, that could have been done by phone and considering the crisis he was in would have been inconsequential. Why would he go knowing he was being scrutenized? The consequences of not going might have been worse.

[klaasend]

Ilarioba is Miguel Willie Ramos on this message board site
http://p206.ezboard.com/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

THIS ONE IS DISGUSTING!!! SICK!
http://p206.ezboard.com/Disposal-sacrifices-offerings/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=532.topic

WOW

Here's more on Miguel Willie Ramos (Ilari Oba):

http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html

http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/messages/14248.html

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/articlesmine/reflections2005.htm

One more:

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/

[BTgirl]

Other than the fact that he's connected to a religion that uses the word "shango," why do we think Willie Ramos might be Shango?

I know there's a Florida connection there somewhere, but with all my laptop troubles I haven't had a chance to read back and try to figure it all out.

TY for any info.

[shadow]

This is why I asked you to help me.. here it is in plain English-

All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven.

The words were hijacked by Cohen and Co. They changed the story around.

For weeks already - so obvious now.

The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. - not a confrontation between the ALE and Joran, but between the ATA, AHATA and the Aruban Authorities and the people that saw covering up the crime would be worse in the long run. They fought this one out and it got BRUTAL!

More lies woven - it is decided to lie. No turning back now. They lie to protect tourism.

Rob, what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense to me. I doubt PVDS would be going to St. Leo's to unenroll Joran from school, that could have been done by phone and considering the crisis he was in would have been inconsequential. Why would he go knowing he was being scrutenized? The consequences of not going might have been worse.

Excellent points! Thanks also to Lala's for posting that Shango tidbit.

[sharon]

Ilarioba is Miguel Willie Ramos on this message board site
http://p206.ezboard.com/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

THIS ONE IS DISGUSTING!!! SICK!
http://p206.ezboard.com/Disposal-sacrifices-offerings/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=532.topic

WOW

Here's more on Miguel Willie Ramos (Ilari Oba):

http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html

http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/messages/14248.html

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/articlesmine/reflections2005.htm

This links 'Willie' to FIU (look under Latin America)

http://www.fiu.edu/~history/Students.htm


And this is a list of papers?? he's written:

Miguel "Willie" Ramos (Ilarí Obá)

The Empire Beats On (master thesis), Florida International University, Miami 2000
Ase Omo Osayin ... Ewe Aye, 1982 /1985
Seminario de Religion Yoruba: Santeria, 1988; ISBN 1877845051
Adimú: Gbogbó Tén'unjé Lukumí, Miami 2003
Oro...Egungun. Las honras de Egungun, Eleda.Org Publications, Miami
Dida Obi ... Adivinación a través del Coco, Carolina, Puerto Rico, 1982

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks everyone. I knew someone would be able to help me. 

[Lala'sMom]

The question to answer about Ramos is this...How and who would be his go between to have access to all the info that was happening in Aruba?  He had to "feed the messengers".  Was this the ones that told him about what was going down and he in turn tweaked everything to fit into the riddles of Shango in order to disguise or even lead us astray?  Just thoughts here...mine of course.

[shadow]

The question to answer about Ramos is this...How and who would be his go between to have access to all the info that was happening in Aruba?  He had to "feed the messengers".  Was this the ones that told him about what was going down and he in turn tweaked everything to fit into the riddles of Shango in order to disguise or even lead us astray?  Just thoughts here...mine of course.

All good thoughts . . . I think it would be a good idea to try to establish a connection between him and who his possible go-betweens in Aruba may have been.

[Kimmy53]

This is why I asked you to help me.. here it is in plain English-

All of the words of the cohorts of the boy and the Hindus have been hi-jacked. For weeks already. The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. More lies woven.

The words were hijacked by Cohen and Co. They changed the story around.

For weeks already - so obvious now.

The confrontation of yesterday was brutal. - not a confrontation between the ALE and Joran, but between the ATA, AHATA and the Aruban Authorities and the people that saw covering up the crime would be worse in the long run. They fought this one out and it got BRUTAL!

More lies woven - it is decided to lie. No turning back now. They lie to protect tourism.

Rob, what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense to me. I doubt PVDS would be going to St. Leo's to unenroll Joran from school, that could have been done by phone and considering the crisis he was in would have been inconsequential. Why would he go knowing he was being scrutenized? The consequences of not going might have been worse.

EXACTLY!!!

Paulus had a real reason to go to FL - Besides, WHY at this point would he un-enroll JOran from school?  This was early on in the investigation and according to him, Joran did nothing wrong and there would be NO reason to take him out of St. Leos.- Bogus excuse IMO.

[SunnyinTX]

On June 11, David Cruz, spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice indicated that Natalee Holloway was dead and authorities knew the location of her body.
 However, Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

That evening, Dompig alleged to the Associated Press that one of the young men detained admitted “something bad happened” to the woman after the suspects took her to the beach, and was leading police to the scene.

The next morning, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes contradicted the report, stating that the rumor that one of the suspects had confessed was untrue

2 Aruban official..spokespersons...announce Natalee's death..then   Rudy Croes comes out with ooopsssss both of the officials were wrong......uuummmmm what's wrong with that picture

and IIRC Beth said she mentally buried Natalee on 6/10....wasn't that the night the FBI woke them up around 3AM to tell the that there was a lot of blood in THE car....and more than likely Natalee was not alive....

How do 2 Aruban officals and the FBI all get it wrong?

[Kimmy53]

The question to answer about Ramos is this...How and who would be his go between to have access to all the info that was happening in Aruba?  He had to "feed the messengers".  Was this the ones that told him about what was going down and he in turn tweaked everything to fit into the riddles of Shango in order to disguise or even lead us astray?  Just thoughts here...mine of course.

Family or extremely close friend.  Can't see it just being a casual aquaintance or someone you just "know"   

IF the riddles were to "lead" astray, I can only figure that we were either right on with what happened, or heading in that direction and someone felt threatened that the truth was coming and felt the need to further complicate things.

Gosh...There's so much to consider, it could go either way.

[sharon]

The question to answer about Ramos is this...How and who would be his go between to have access to all the info that was happening in Aruba?  He had to "feed the messengers".  Was this the ones that told him about what was going down and he in turn tweaked everything to fit into the riddles of Shango in order to disguise or even lead us astray?  Just thoughts here...mine of course.

What if 'Willie's' connection for all inof Aruban was one of our friendly Aruban ex-pats -- that live in Ft Lauderdale and work for the Aruba Tourism Association (in Ft Lauderdale). Gabe? Jairo? I can't remember the names. Rob knows.

iirc, several here thought this Ft Lauderdale guy WAS Shango. I also thought I remembered reading that he was going to FIU -- where 'Willie' was a graduate student.

But the question is....which one was the reader of the Marvel comic books 

[shadow]

Thanks to all who posted the links to the 2005 FP posts. Been reading back and it is very interesting. Several days back there was some discussion as to whether or not JOran had his own car??? I found this FP post from June 10th 2005 from Rick. Don't know if Rick had any first hand knowledge per se, but I found this interesting.

I dont know if you visited Joran’s websites, but his favorite songs are all women-degrading rap tunes, like “Candy Store� which is about getting a woman to perform oral sex and degrading her in the process… All his photos are posed with attractive women and he’s flashing money, has a leather belt around some other shirtless kid’s neck, others are bar scenes where he and his friends are flashing make-believe gang signs, pretending to be American gangsta boys… In all, he seems like a spoiled, undisciplined kid, whose permissive parents allow him to frequent casinos and bars, give him a pricey car - all the while knowing he’s legally underage for gambling and drinking. And this is the son of a judge..

[klaasend]

Ilarioba is Miguel Willie Ramos on this message board site
http://p206.ezboard.com/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

THIS ONE IS DISGUSTING!!! SICK!
http://p206.ezboard.com/Disposal-sacrifices-offerings/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=532.topic

WOW

Here's more on Miguel Willie Ramos (Ilari Oba):

http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html

http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/messages/14248.html

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/articlesmine/reflections2005.htm

One more:

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/

I realize Ramos is a common name but could "Willie" be related to the gardener witness?

Carlos Penata Ramos, Gardener for Mansur
    

[shadow]

Ilarioba is Miguel Willie Ramos on this message board site
http://p206.ezboard.com/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

THIS ONE IS DISGUSTING!!! SICK!
http://p206.ezboard.com/Disposal-sacrifices-offerings/fdiasporaorishanetworkfrm1.showMessage?topicID=532.topic

WOW

Here's more on Miguel Willie Ramos (Ilari Oba):

http://members.tripod.com/omo_ileosikan/id11.html

http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.orisha/messages/14248.html

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/articlesmine/reflections2005.htm

One more:

http://ilarioba.tripod.com/

I realize Ramos is a common name but could "Willie" be related to the gardener witness?

Carlos Penata Ramos, Gardener for Mansur
    

That would be a weird coincidence . . . 

[klaasend]

Not sure if this was posted earlier from todays Diario:

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/7/31/

NA LIGHT HOUSE A LOCALIZA UN MUHER MALTRATA TA YORA
Via di internet-dating a conoce e muher Colombiano y a manda buske 
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Basta aña atras via di corespondencia pa medio di carta ta skirbi otro y cu tempo e amistad ta crece te cu un dia nan ta topa otro. Awe cos a cambia! Nos tin internet, e comunicacion a bisa masha facil, hasta via webcamera por comunica cu otro.

Te hasta por bay asina leu cu ta invita otro pa sera conoci personalmente. Den e siguiente caso via di internet un homber Colombiano biba na Aruba a cera conoci cu un muher, kende porcierto ta su paisana.

Tabata Diadomingo pa ser exacto 8:10’or Central di polis a ricibi yamada cu na Lighthouse un homber ta maltratando un muher. E homber tabata den un Nissan Sunny color blanco numera A-9342, y eyden e tabata maltrata e muher en cuestion.

Patruya di Noord cu tabata na caminda pa Lighthouse a ricibi informe adicional cu e chofer cu su Nissan y a laga e muher bandona atras na e lugar. Patruya di Polis na altura di Arashi a localiza e auto y a atende e chofer cu ta e homber di inicialnan E.W.R.N. naci na Colombia di 38 aña. E homber colombiano a confirma na polisnan cu el a confronta problema cu e muher y esaki a sali na dado momento for di man y e laga e muher patras di Faro.

Mientras un otro patruya a bay na Light House y a localiza un muher sinta ta yora. Ta trata aki di e muher inicialnan P.M.H.G. naci na Colombia di 21 aña. Segun declaracion di muher cu e homber E.W.R.N. a maltrate pasobra el a bay keiro anochi.

E muher a basha abao cu el a conoce e homber via di internet y cu E.W.R.N. a manda pasashi pe pa e bin Aruba. Riba 3 di juni cu a pasa el a yega Aruba , e homber a priminti di regla permiso pe. Tambe e muher a conta polis cu e homber ta casa! Pa colmo e esposa di E.W.R.N. actualmente no ta na Aruba. Fuera e muher P.M.H.G. a bisa polis tambe di tin relacion sexual cu E.W.R.N., pero tur ora e homber ta maltrate.

Ora segun e muher a sigui declara, cu e kier a yama polis y haci denuncia di tur e abuso aki... e homber ta menaze di mate. Apesar di tur cos e muher no kier entrega denuncia oficial contra di e homber, tambe e muher agrega cu e kier pa regla su asuntonan pa e regresa Colombia.

Polis a hiba e muher na Burubundo pa pasa piki su pertenencianan. A purba di busca contacto cu e organizacion Hende muher den Dificultad pa auxilia e muher Colombiano. Pero finalmente e muher a bay hospeda cerca un amiga cu e conoci na San Nicolas.

Through translator:


 at light house owing to localiza one muher maltrata is cry via of internet-dating owing to conoce the muher colombiano y owing to send buske oranjestad (aan): enough year behind via of corespondencia by carta is write another y cu time the amistad is crece till cu one day they're come across another. today cos owing to change! we have internet, the comunicacion owing to tell very facil, even via webcamera can comunica cu another. till even can bay so far cu is invita another for close conoci personalmente. in the next caso via of internet one man colombiano live at aruba owing to close conoci cu one muher, that porcierto is his paisana. was diadomingo for being exact 8:10’or central of police owing to ricibi call cu at lighthouse one man is maltratando one muher. he was in one nissan sunny color blanco numera a-9342, y eyden the was maltrata the muher provided that cuestion. patrol of north cu was at caminda for lighthouse owing to ricibi informe adicional cu the chofer cu his nissan y owing to let the muher bandona behind at the lugar. patrol of police at height of arashi owing to localiza the car y owing to atende the chofer cu is he of inicialnan the.w.r.n. naci at colombia of 38 year. he colombiano owing to confirma at polisnan cu past owing to confronta problem cu the muher y this owing to leave at dado instant for of hand y the let the muher behind lighthouse. while one another patrol owing to bay at light house y owing to localiza one muher sit is cry. is deal here of the muher inicialnan therefore.m.h.g. naci at colombia of 21 year. according declaracion of muher cu he the.w.r.n. owing to maltrate because past owing to bay keiro night. the muher owing to pour abao cu past owing to conoce he via of internet y cu the.w.r.n. owing to send pasashi pe for her come aruba. on 3 of june cu owing to happen past owing to arrive aruba come across, he owing to priminti of regulation permission pe. also the muher owing to count ; police cu he is casa! for colmo the wife of the.w.r.n. actualmente do not at aruba. fuera the muher therefore.m.h.g. owing to tell police also of have relacion sexual cu the.w.r.n., but all hour he is maltrate. hour according the muher owing to follow declara, cu the wanted owing to calling police y haci denuncia of all the abuse here... he is menaze of mate. despite of all cos the muher does not entrega denuncia oficial contra of he, also the muher agrega cu the wanted for regulation his asuntonan for her return colombia. police owing to take away the muher at burubundo for happen piki his pertenencianan. owing to try of busca contacto cu the organizacion person muher in dificultad for auxilia the muher colombiano. but finalmente the muher owing to bay hospeda close one girlfriend cu the conoci at san nicolas. come across