Natalee Case Discussion #765 7/15 - 7/22

[sandy leiva]

Interesting post, tonight by Eddie at BFN:

I was just on the phone with my friend from mexico speaking spanish and she called her new son "Daury".  I asked her to say it again and to make sure i heard correct.  She said she calls him that.  It's a short cute son like form name of Eduardo.

Eduardo huh? 

I have a son and a brother also named edward, edwardo in spanish and speak it fluently but have never heard of daury being short for eddie, edward or edwardo. In fact never heard .of the name daury till on this website.  Must be something new.
By the way Im not posting much but read daily.  Is Beth still going foward with the civil case? Not much about it in any papers or newsbreaks.I never heard back from Greta,Geraldo or Guilfoil on the sneaker find,but there was a rumor that media was on the island any truth to that? Also I just read the persnickety sneakers have dissapeared-did I miss reading that? ttyl monkeys sl

[Puzzler]

 ::MonkeyHaHa::Good one, Klaas!!

[sandy leiva]

Interesting post, tonight by Eddie at BFN:

I was just on the phone with my friend from mexico speaking spanish and she called her new son "Daury".  I asked her to say it again and to make sure i heard correct.  She said she calls him that.  It's a short cute son like form name of Eduardo.

Eduardo huh? 

I have a son and a brother also named edward, edwardo in spanish and speak it fluently but have never heard of daury being short for eddie, edward or edwardo. In fact never heard .of the name daury till on this website.  Must be something new.
By the way Im not posting much but read daily.  Is Beth still going foward with the civil case? Not much about it in any papers or newsbreaks.I never heard back from Greta,Geraldo or Guilfoil on the sneaker find,but there was a rumor that media was on the island any truth to that? Also I just read the persnickety sneakers have dissapeared-did I miss reading that? ttyl monkeys sl

Soryy catching up on reading and I have another question- If it is compulsury for arubans to join thier so called dutch marine  service on the island then is Joran a draft dodger at 18 or does .criminality let him off the hook?  Maybe a dumb question but does attending university let him off or maybe its his psychiatric history?

[WhiskeyGirl]

The Daily Herald

Red Cross broke ~ No resources means no assistance in hurricane season ~

By Duane Robin


PHILIPSBURG--The Netherlands’ Red Cross St. Maarten Chapter is broke.

  The local branch of this global humanitarian organisation is in such financial trouble that management began making tough decisions recently on the use of the little money that Red Cross St. Maarten has.

  The first tough decision was whether to keep the lights on by paying the utilities bill or to pay the taxes to avoid penalties, The Daily Herald has learned through reliable information.

  Many other similarly difficult decisions are expected in the coming weeks, as Red Cross St. Maarten is admittedly ill-prepared to provide disaster relief in the event of hurricane.

  Red Cross volunteers were told about these problems during a meeting for volunteers on Sunday.

  According to information reaching this newspaper, the Red Cross’ supplies have run short, its cash reserves are depleted and it does not even have fuel to power its vehicles.

  In March, the Red Cross’ financial trouble slowed assistance to the 22 men, women and children left homeless after a fire gutted an apartment building they shared.

  In June, the Red Cross was completely unable to help another four victims simply due to a lack of resources.

  Red Cross Windward Islands President Bobby Velasquez had confirmed to this newspaper a few months ago that the organisation was in financial trouble. He said later that a landmark reorganisation of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba Red Cross, which occurred in May, would provide consistent financial support, administrative efficiency and more staffing.

  Apparently, this information will not be correct for another two years, until the earmarked money becomes available to the new Red Cross structures in 2010.

  Velazquez is currently off-island. Unanswered correspondence to the Red Cross board was sent as recently as July 9, according to copies of letters this newspaper has in its possession.

  The Daily Herald contacted Red Cross Commander Joseph Charles for comment recently, but, for lack of authorisation to speak to the media, he directed this newspaper to board member Joseph Peterson. Peterson quickly shot down inquiries about the Sunday meeting and financial matters, referring this newspaper to Charles.

  Attempts to contact Local Chief of Police and Head of Disaster Management Lt. Governor Franklyn Richards for comment on the matter have failed. Leader of Government Commissioner Sarah Wescot-Williams did not return a phone call to her office.

  In the meantime, the peak period in the hurricane season is fast approaching. Historically, the most dangerous storms affecting the Americas occur between August and October each year.

 read more here -

http://www.thedailyherald.com/tdhonline/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=315:red-cross-broke&catid=56:today

[sandy leiva]

Interesting post, tonight by Eddie at BFN:

I was just on the phone with my friend from mexico speaking spanish and she called her new son "Daury".  I asked her to say it again and to make sure i heard correct.  She said she calls him that.  It's a short cute son like form name of Eduardo.

Eduardo huh? 

I have a son and a brother also named edward, edwardo in spanish and speak it fluently but have never heard of daury being short for eddie, edward or edwardo. In fact never heard .of the name daury till on this website.  Must be something new.
By the way Im not posting much but read daily.  Is Beth still going foward with the civil case? Not much about it in any papers or newsbreaks.I never heard back from Greta,Geraldo or Guilfoil on the sneaker find,but there was a rumor that media was on the island any truth to that? Also I just read the persnickety sneakers have dissapeared-did I miss reading that? ttyl monkeys sl

Soryy catching up on reading and I have another question- If it is compulsury for arubans to join thier so called dutch marine  service on the island then is Joran a draft dodger at 18 or does .criminality let him off the hook?  Maybe a dumb question but does attending university let him off or maybe its his psychiatric history?

I got my thinking hat on so now you guys are stuck with my dumb questions and comments ok here goes:

Dutch marines must have lots of recruits on that isle where there are plenty of 18 plus aged males.
now being that there are so many drug houses,pimps and addicts there- it lends belief that there is no compulsory age otherwise there wouldnt be so many lost souls on that misbegotton island.
Are only dutch nationals able to be recruited and if so then what with the arubans under reign of queen beatrix?

Where did the sneakers dissapear from originate? Or is this just lite humor on this thread?
Obviously Sandra K must read here. funny though how she convienently figured this out after the post on this thread but hasnt said who she thinks it is.
The drainage pipes and the tunnels under the california lighthouse-appear to dump into the ocean just past the drop off by the appearance in the photos, wouldnt they just flush everything out to sea including decomposing body parts.

re the broken into tombs in 2005 could it be that someone knew or surmised the body could have been stored there but not  exactly which one it was in ,hense the distruction of many of the tombs. I know way back it was believed to be . a warning of silence to the family whose crypts were broken into but could it have just been stupid desperation to find and relocate the body before anyone else got a clue to check out the crypts.

The extreme frustration in flollowing this case can make anyone crazy..

[texasmom]

From BFN
Translation of Peter DeVries article by GBMW
Re: Holloway Tapes: Van Der Eem Used Cocaine
« Reply #255 on: Today at 04:20:18 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05-02-2008

REACTION ON THE REACTIONS…
The publicity storm that started before the Natalee show still continues after the show aired. We’re still overwhelmed with interview requests and questions from the press. Last night our show was aired in the US by ABC and that can be noticed by the number of phone calls coming from overseas. The response is still a bit uncertain, but other channels have repeated the footage.

YES - NO

I’m sometimes a bit surprised about the reactions in the Netherlands. The claim of Joran that he made everything up, is sometimes quoted as if it’s an announcement coming from our official information service which makes it look like this is become a bit like a  indefinable yes – no game. I look at this differently: claiming it’s made up, is the only thing left if he wants to avoid prison time. He can hardly tell he was dead serious. Again, I point out that the confessions of Joran are completely in line with the serious accusations that were against him before and where he has been arrested for earlier. Those were based on the, established, lies that Joran told about his whereabouts that night.

If he lied then, who says he’s not lying now, I read here and there. That looks like a logic question,  but it’s not according to me. It’s appears to be: once a liar, always a liar, but exactly this doesn’t apply in this situation. Joran was with Natalee when she died, yes or no, there are no other options. So if his first statements are implausible and untruthful, it becomes more believable that his confession, made in good faith,  to a friend is true.

Yesterday, colleague Kees van der Spek was right to point out to me  that it speaks for itself that you lie to the police if you are risking to be arrested or to be convicted – like Joran provable did –  than that you share a secret with your best friend in a one-on-one situation.

- CONFESSIONS WITH BODY LANGUAGE -

Joran claimed – even before our report was aired – that he had just told what the undercover Patrick ‘wanted to hear’  and that he was a bit suspicious already. But how in the world did Joran know what our undercover wanted to hear? Is he claiming Patrick dictated this to him? And isn’t it that you would exactly not say what someone wants to hear in his situation, but that you would emphasize your innocence even more? But no, instead of that Joran wears himself out, on different dates & times, in detailed confessions, with the meaningful body language and sealed with a hand shake, where he exactly tells the things that answer the questions from the LE (if he was with Natalee when she died, what happened to the body, how he got home, where his shoes are, etc. etc.).

The ALE has stated in a press  conference that about 80% of the statements correspond with earlier research findings.

-SELECTIVE SELECTION? –

The lawyers of Joran now say there might have been a selective choice from the tapes. That’s even a bit funny. At first his American lawyer yelled, before the airing, that there couldn’t be any confessions and now it’s clear that there is more than we could have aired in two hours, we are getting a reproach that we have been selective. Of course, it has been edited because otherwise it would have been an evening / night filling show, but it is done correctly. The LE has had ALL our tapes in their possession for some time now and listened to them. The new suspicion against Joran – manslaughter – is also based on that. The LE wouldn’t have done that of course if it would have appeared from those tapes that the conversations were false.

- LOOSE ENDS -

Of course there can be some loose ends and inadequacies in Jorans confession. I’ve pointed out in my show that I take into account he – for his own good – weakened certain points, distorted or concealed things to protect himself or others.

I’ve investigated hundreds of homicide & disappearance cases in my life. In a huge number the perpetrator eventually gave a full confession and completely cooperated with police and the LE. And even then there are always a few things that won’t correspond with the results from the police investigation. Does that make the confession worthless? No, of course not. Even in the best marriages partners don’t always tell each other the complete truth, so also in that friendship with Patrick Joran could have had motives to not completely inform him about, for instance, the cause of death of Natalee, the way he got home or who helped him. But that doesn’t make his extensive confession not less valuable or credible. In trials conflicting or even untruths appear quite often. The judge brings in with his verdict that “there are untruths, but that the statement in general is credible and / or authentic”.

- NOT GIVING IN DURING HEARINGS -

I have to refute the claim that Joran is  mentally unstable and can be provoked to give all sorts of statements. If someone is stable it’s Joran. He has been arrested twice and has been under severe pressure during questioning but didn’t give in. He was able to keep his calm and consequently appealed to his right to keep silent. Not once was he allured nor enticed to say anything during the hearings after his second arrest, while there was – partially developed by behaviour experts –a  plan of questioning. That’s not exactly the behaviour of an unstable & dense person.

Furthermore the theory he wanted to impress Patrick van der Eem with the story Natalee died in his arms and that he subsequently disposed of her in the ocean. It is not true  that these kind of horror stories create any kind of a favourable  impression or regard in the criminal world. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Believe me, nobody is impressed – but in fact disgusted – if someone confesses that he disposed of a young (and possibly still alive), innocent girl in the ocean and lied to her desperate mother for years. Child-, women- & lust murderers try very hard to conceal why they are imprisoned because otherwise they will be molested. No,  the criminal world is more impressed when someone innocent has been to prison & the LE is forced to acknowledge this. LE is the suspect then and that’s amusing in that environment; not the other way around.

- BLOWING IN THE CAR -

Finally this: there are references that Joran was blowing weed in the car. That’s true. That didn’t happen because we nor our undercover wanted this or aimed at it,  it ‘s just that Joran does this everyday. He writes about this in his book and  when he was arrested for the second time, he also proudly announced  he was ‘so stoned’ when the police came to collect him at home. Nothing happened in the car that doesn’t happen in Jorans’ everyday life.

PETER R. DE VRIES
 

[johan555]

From BFN
Translation of Peter DeVries article by GBMW
Re: Holloway Tapes: Van Der Eem Used Cocaine
« Reply #255 on: Today at 04:20:18 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that article is on peters website

[texasmom]

From BFN
Translation of Peter DeVries article by GBMW
Re: Holloway Tapes: Van Der Eem Used Cocaine
« Reply #255 on: Today at 04:20:18 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that article is on peters website

Johan,
Is the article in English on Peter's website?  If so, please post a link to it.
Thanks!
TM

[texasmom]

sorry about the messed up quote stack Johan....

Johan,
Is the article in English on Peter's website?  If so, please post a link to it.
Thanks!
TM

[Dayhiker]

Morning Monkeys! Any news from Hans Mos and his supposed trump card? Fact or fiction? Is this just more hot air coming out of the Aruba justice system?

[Dayhiker]

From BFN
Translation of Peter DeVries article by GBMW
Re: Holloway Tapes: Van Der Eem Used Cocaine
« Reply #255 on: Today at 04:20:18 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05-02-2008

YES - NO

I’m sometimes a bit surprised about the reactions in the Netherlands. The claim of Joran that he made everything up, is sometimes quoted as if it’s an announcement coming from our official information service which makes it look like this is become a bit like a  indefinable yes – no game. I look at this differently: claiming it’s made up, is the only thing left if he wants to avoid prison time. He can hardly tell he was dead serious. Again, I point out that the confessions of Joran are completely in line with the serious accusations that were against him before and where he has been arrested for earlier. Those were based on the, established, lies that Joran told about his whereabouts that night.

PETER R. DE VRIES
 

Peter just doesn't understand their system, as practiced in Aruba.   According to the Dutch judge, Joran's confession doesn't count. The judge raised the bar so high they'll never incarcerate him.

[texasmom]

A great warrior for Natalee and friend of mine shared this link with me a few days ago.  Every since....this song...and of course "Feelings"...have been stuck in my head!  I think the video's been out for a while so some have probably seen it, but I wanted to share it with those who haven't.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5T9oUoQBbk

[Dayhiker]

Hans Mos

Aruba

You've heard of Dirty Hand. This is Slow Hand.

[texasmom]

Hans Mos

Aruba

You've heard of Dirty Hand. This is Slow Hand.

Ain't that the truth!

[dennisintn]

A great warrior for Natalee and friend of mine shared this link with me a few days ago.  Every since....this song...and of course "Feelings"...have been stuck in my head!  I think the video's been out for a while so some have probably seen it, but I wanted to share it with those who haven't.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5T9oUoQBbk

tex, thank you for giving us this reminder.  i forgot to add it to my favorites and it is a terrific reminder of natalee and how precious she really was.  i could have done without the pics of the darksiders, but they sure make for a totally black and white reminder.
dennisintn

[dennisintn]

From BFN
Translation of Peter DeVries article by GBMW
Re: Holloway Tapes: Van Der Eem Used Cocaine
« Reply #255 on: Today at 04:20:18 AM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05-02-2008

YES - NO

I’m sometimes a bit surprised about the reactions in the Netherlands. The claim of Joran that he made everything up, is sometimes quoted as if it’s an announcement coming from our official information service which makes it look like this is become a bit like a  indefinable yes – no game. I look at this differently: claiming it’s made up, is the only thing left if he wants to avoid prison time. He can hardly tell he was dead serious. Again, I point out that the confessions of Joran are completely in line with the serious accusations that were against him before and where he has been arrested for earlier. Those were based on the, established, lies that Joran told about his whereabouts that night.

PETER R. DE VRIES
 

Peter just doesn't understand their system, as practiced in Aruba.   According to the Dutch judge, Joran's confession doesn't count. The judge raised the bar so high they'll never incarcerate him.

the dutch system as practiced by aruba is as follows:   money comes first-justice comes last and only if it doesn't cost us anything at all.
dennisintn

[2NJSons_Mom]

sorry about the messed up quote stack Johan....

Johan,
Is the article in English on Peter's website?  If so, please post a link to it.
Thanks!
TM

Johan posted his own Google translation of the same article, yesterday.  Peter's website is in Dutch....here's the link, but I wasn't able to find the article, myself. 

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

[2NJSons_Mom]

Interesting post, tonight by Eddie at BFN:

I was just on the phone with my friend from mexico speaking spanish and she called her new son "Daury".  I asked her to say it again and to make sure i heard correct.  She said she calls him that.  It's a short cute son like form name of Eduardo.

Eduardo huh? 

I have a son and a brother also named edward, edwardo in spanish and speak it fluently but have never heard of daury being short for eddie, edward or edwardo. In fact never heard .of the name daury till on this website.  Must be something new.By the way Im not posting much but read daily.  Is Beth still going foward with the civil case? Not much about it in any papers or newsbreaks.I never heard back from Greta,Geraldo or Guilfoil on the sneaker find,but there was a rumor that media was on the island any truth to that? Also I just read the persnickety sneakers have dissapeared-did I miss reading that? ttyl monkeys sl

Thanks for sharing the info....I do not have the Spanish background and also never heard the name before reading it here.  Think I'll remain skeptical, for now, though.

[Poochy]

Hans Mos

Aruba

You've heard of Dirty Hand. This is Slow Hand.

Ain't that the truth!

Yes, and LESS DEFT of foot as well!

[truthseeker2]

 ::MonkeyHaHa::Good one, Klaas!!

 

This is easily my "Pic of Week".  hilarious.  You should put a "people detector" in his hands.  Ya know, like those metal detectors people use on the beaches sometimes.

Too funny.