Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08

[wreck]

If Natalee had been found in the size cage they expected -- they would have probably  come out and announced their discovery. Now they have to find out WHY it was a bigger trap.
 Yes, it IS wishful thinking on my part -- but it is very plausible.
Why would The Persistence send all those pictures "of nothing" to Dave and Robin -- and why would they be upset that they shared the pictures "of nothing"?? 

[Rob]

Rob - so I don't have to go searching through all the videos, which one is that?  Which aru-bay video number..I remember that ship and when you emailed me that's the first thing I thought of 

I know what you mean. I hate these things. I am kind of sure there is another ship that looks like it is a boat that could hold traps. That's the boat I'm looking for now.

[Rob]

Found a better shot of the same ship

can anyone identify the type of ship in this image?

[JustMeT]

Kalpoe Fingered Mickey and Abe ?

While the deepak e-mail and each Kalpoe PV indicates their implication of "a" security guard, the actual story of the Holiday Inn drop off and the particulars were cooked up, at least as we know and stated, in the car ride deepak and jvds took from hotel gambling back to sloot house on May 31, 2005 when paulus called jvds to return home, as there were people from Alabama at the sloot house looking for their missing daughter.  This is coroborated in other pv's I believe when deepak called his brother Satish, during this same car ride, to relay the details of the story, in case he was questioned.

During that same nite, an impromptu re-enactment of the drop off was role played at the entrance of the Holiday Inn, and both were involved (jvds, dk) -- including Paulus, who was reportedly coaching his son and glancing worriedly at the security cameras.  Those cameras produced the film that proved the whole drop off story was a lie.

It was Beth who reviewed the film, and she knew as of June 1 there was no drop off at all.

Yet, Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones were arrested -- based on this false story and false witness report -- 4 days later, on June 5, 2005.

The responsibility for this frame job can not be laid at the feet of the Kalpoe's alone.  Both jvds and Paulus were on scene and participated in the re-enactment of the false drop off story.  They were directly involved as well.

And a special note: the pv archive is missing the two "WITNESS" statements of jvds -- these would be the earliest statements he gave ALE.  I think most of us believe these are "missing" for a reason -- and that is to insulate jvds from his self-incriminating statements of bearing false witness and providing intentionally false testimony.  And other reasons too.

.

Why was that not a crime worthy of prosecution? The intent and the possibility of causing harm were great and they did cause a lot of harm, actual, to the investigation and to the 2 security guards.

My guess would be because Moe, Larry and Curly did not name the security guards specifically. They just gave a general description of a security guard...not two, just one. It was ALE and the prosecutor who 'identified' which security guards to go after. 

I believe it says somewhere in the pv's that deepak brought up the security guard bit, while the whole group was talking to the woman at the desk in the holiday inn, the night Beth first got to aruba.

Yes, but he did not name them.  He described a security guard and what that person was wearing.  One mistake was made in that regard.  Deepak's description did not match the uniforms worn by security at HI.  It did, however, match the uniforms worn by security (or former security) at the Allegro.   Interesting.........

Either way, the arrest of those two guys would not be a criminal act based on lies told by any of the three suspects. At least not a crime you could pin on Deepak. He did not name them, nor did he specifically describe THEM.  ALE and the Prosecutor are to blame for those false arrests.  And they knew they were wrong.  imo.

I think he only talked about one security guard. (not sure srry) So why did they arrest two?

I totally agree.


Bet Deepak loves that somebody is pointing out he didnt specifically point out either of the guards. It was a big deal to him. So should have lying..

We allllll lie. 

[Anna]

You have an excellent resource on murder, suicide and suspicious deaths in the Murder and Crime Thread that MsMarple has done an excellent and professional job of compiling.  See link in my signature.  I believe last Summary is around Page 16.

Replete with photos and everything.

.

[Destiny]

Does anyone know what the *back* the heel part of Joran's missing tennies looks like...sorry, I can't remember the name of them or I'd google it...Swiss-somethings...TIA

Thank You Klaasand...so that is the image on the back of the heel?  TIA

[ala_gunslinger]

OMG!   

Caesu said 'reckon'!!!!!!

Congrats!  You are learnin the Kings English!  As in Elvis!

yes i thought should i use that word or not. 
it is more used in australian.

Caesu, you're alright in my book! 

It's amazing how small our little planet has become.  In the early 90's, I had the pleasure of working with one of your university professors.  We were designing the first computer based language translators.  As a matter of fact, I took him to his first Hooters, and bought him a calender!!!!

Oh the good old days!!!

[Tater]

Does anyone know what the *back* the heel part of Joran's missing tennies looks like...sorry, I can't remember the name of them or I'd google it...Swiss-somethings...TIA

Thank You Klaasand...so that is the image on the back of the heel?  TIA

I for one am interested in knowing why you are so interested in that heel Destiny..

[texasmom]

Hall Monitor here...let's all calm down and get back to business.  Natalee needs us right now to be united more than ever.  One thing I can say about the monkeys is they may get mad and sulk off into a corner but there is one shining light guiding us to the end and it is Natalee.  Not only are we like family in here, sometimes we all get irritated...I was irritated the other night and then a few weeks ago someone was irritated with me about Shango.  Heck!  If I can tolerate some of the hate spewed my way over Shango and Simian and still be in that thread day in and day out all the while being laughed at...then we can all get tougher skins and carry on. 

There are good people in Aruba...I would never have said that 3 months ago...I felt there was no one that cared about anything but tourism dollars and the fun that comes with the party happy island.  That is until I met a person named Capslockwizard.  Yes, I was skeptical, just ask Klaas.  Even through my apparent skepticsim and apprehension that things were taking a wrong turn...I kept on listening to him.  I kept on thinking...could this be a break...could this be an answered prayer? 

I stuck with it...although we still have few answers I am making connections to all those dots I have chased for over 2 years.  Not clear connections, but in here what is clear?  But little by little I have come to see there are good people  in Aruba...people that given the chance will do the right thing.  Fear is the word that permeates the culture there...fear of retribution...I understand it more than ever and I am so skeptical at times I want to slap myself. 

I also, believe there are good Dutch people too.  They have families and just want the best for them and their world..just as we do here in America.  Cultural differences are hard to overcome...some impossible and have to remain that way.  Also, let's not forget the times suspicions have surfaced concerning many things on Aruba.  I know there are some new people that do not understand this and I see no way to get them up to speed at this moment.  I guess what I am asking is...let's not lose sight of the reason we are here....that is what is most important about all of us that reach from one corner of the earth to the other...Natalee Holloway...who is standing with me?

I'M RIGHT BESIDE YOU LALA'S, STANDING FOR THE GIRL! CAPSLOCKWIZARD ROCKS!!

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - from Dr. Hodges:

The fisherman described the cage as made of 3/8-inch iron (such as that used in concrete reinforcing—"rebar") with a frame size approximately 5 ½ feet by 4 feet by 17 inches. He described it as a large fishing cage with its frame wrapped in chicken wire with its familiar hexagonal openings but with an opening in one panel which allowed them to trap fish. He believed that, given its size and weight, it would take two men to manage the cage. Once aboard, it would lay low on the floor of the nearby fishing boat.

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

Thank you Klaas.

The dimensions of the trap/cage provided by Hodges does not begin to the reflect the enormous size of the trap/cage show on the Dateline program.  The divers were dwarfed in comparision.  Maybe the underground images were distorted.

Again ... I asked.  Why was Tim Miller 99.9% sure prior to the dive that Natalee Holloway's remains were in that huge cage?

Maybe Dana could have Tim Miller as a guest on his show and ... some of our questions regarding the confusion encompassing this "find" by the crew of the Persistance could be answered.

Janet

Janet...I can very easily see Natalee being transferred in the smaller trap, in a smaller boat...to a larger boat with the larger trap for dropping off farther out...that would give the smaller boat a way to drop over the side if any other boats came near...and the larger trap would not run the risk of ever being swept closer to land by rough seas...yeah I know...time for more coffee....

I am soo confused.  Why have we not moved on? 

The FBI claimed that Natalee's DNA was not in the trap/cage ... Hans Mos states that the FBI claimed that Natalee's DNA was not in the trap/cage ... Dave Holloway claims that Natalee's DNA was not in the trap/cage and ... Tim Miller claims that Natalee's DNA was not in the trap/cage.

If there were underlying investigative reasons to supress the truth pertaining to the DNA that was in the trap/cage ... I do believe that silence would be where it was at ... not lies.  I give Tim Miller credit that he would not have chosen to be a guest on the Greta Show and ... blatantly deceive the American people.

Janet

++++++++++


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

Transcript - Heli (RU)

[Frank]

They not only arrested 2 innocent men, they claimed they had evidence of homicide (van der straaten)

Janssen said "we have more than circumstantial evidence" against the guards to charge them with kidnapping and murder.

What evidence? And where did it go?

These are not MISTAKES.

[Destiny]

Found a better shot of the same ship

Wow Rob...if we could get a clear close up pic of the boats' name and registry...that would be sumthin' oh boy...that would be sumthin'...

[Destiny]

Does anyone know what the *back* the heel part of Joran's missing tennies looks like...sorry, I can't remember the name of them or I'd google it...Swiss-somethings...TIA

Thank You Klaasand...so that is the image on the back of the heel?  TIA

I for one am interested in knowing why you are so interested in that heel Destiny..

Still working on it Tot    checking out a theory..

[klaasend]

Destiny - I believe the logo on K-Swiss is usually on the side and on the back just the words K-SWISS.

[bleachedblack]

Found a better shot of the same ship

Looks similar to a Coast Guard boat to me. http://oceanmotion.org/guides/fd_3/Lesson.3_html_5a1c7667.jpg

[Peaches]

Destiny, you have some hotmail!

Hammer, thank you for making the point re cage size and ski boat size.  If you didn't want to put the cage in the boat, you could tow it on a stern line.  It's not that big.  It's not that heavy.   

It's all about leverage.   

[Destiny]

Destiny - I believe the logo on K-Swiss is usually on the side and on the back just the words K-SWISS.

Thank You!

[Peaches]

Found a better shot of the same ship

Looks similar to a Coast Guard boat to me. http://oceanmotion.org/guides/fd_3/Lesson.3_html_5a1c7667.jpg

Having been boarded by the CG many years ago, I would have to agree.  I see plenty of marine antennas and stuff.  And that stripe seems familiar as well.

[klaasend]

This is aru-bay smallmovie11620061 which means it was the first video in this series to be uploaded and was uploaded on 6/11/2005:



After this the videos moved to the rock area

[bc73]

Sorry abut the 4 stripe misprint...These are the old classics, some don't have that dumb logo on the heel.