Natalee Case Discussion #747 4/11 - 4/17/08

[Observer]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

[klaasend]

I'm wondering now if Patrick even wrote/posted that.  His website is down right now.  Could be someone hacked into it.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Klaas

I tend to believe it.  I once contacted Peter Devries assistant (another Peter) with some info regarding my perception of the corrupt investigation and ... this guy emailed me back a response that was very similar to Patrick's open letter.

Janet

It's likely Patricks words..I just found it interresting that the website is all of a sudden down.

[Peaches]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

I agree with your astute observation.

[klaasend]

Thanks Sandy. 

[Dayhiker]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

You are absolutely 100% right *******. Certainly Karin Jannsen and Jan van der Straten knew within 48 hours that Joran had committed crimes against Natalee but they just couldn't find the honesty and integrity in their sorryass cold black hearts to bring their buddy Paulus' son to justice. Joran so much as told them and Van der Straten so much as told us. I hate that Patrick has his head in the sand on this but it damn sure doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

[Rob]

I agree also *******, and I would buy that book.

Anyway, I am also thankful that Patrick got Joran on tape... it's all for nothing currently, as Joran is not locked-up and seems to be skirting the law... or our perception of what the law should be or entail.

When making a secret recording it's best to let the person actually talk and not interrupt them all the time. Who knows what Joran would have said if left unimpeded. Patrick should have only spoke when clarifying a re-mark made by Joran... in a sense, to get more details.

I had the same criticism of Jamie, even though I thought the world of him and enjoyed talking to him.

[LilPuma]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

I completely agree, but how many actually followed this case closely enough to understand all the things that took place that tell us, without a doubt, that Joran is guilty and his father's friends covered up this crime.  One thing Patrick got on tape is Joran saying that he got off because of "higher powers".  One of the few true things coming out of Joran's mouth.  I've always tried to emphasize that this isn't just about Natalee and Joran, but about the way Aruban officials view and treat tourists.  Murders are suicides and they have no crime but protest for overtime and are too busy to investigate a dead body, or several.  A lot of animosity was spewed at Americans and the tourists are always blamed for anything that goes wrong.  Why would anyone want to go there?  Behind all that are my feelings about Beth and Dave and Natalee, and my anger for the way each of them  has been treated by Aruba.  But to many, it's a case of a missing girl, unsolved, happens everywhere.  I loan out the books that Dave and Beth wrote.  I'll talk if they'll listen.  But showing people how they could be victimized by the Aruban culture of blame the tourist seems to work if they don't want to listen for long.  I never thought about what kind of response I'd get if I had to call police in Mexico or the Caribbean (when I used to travel there frequently and sometimes alone), although I always carried the US Consulate/Embassy number, but this case has opened my eyes.  I'll stick to places like Hawaii, Canada, England, Australia, Key West and Hilton Head, thank you very much.  I want to be in a country that has competent police, takes action against crime AND corruption, and doesn't hate Americans.  (That last part leaves out a good portion of the world, but I can live happily without ever seeing those places.)   I guess I'm saying that for we need to understand that most people have not followed this case closely and don't realize that why those of us who did feel so strongly about it.  I can't convert them all, but I can give them reasons to travel elsewhere.   

[Rob]

Nice Post Lil Puma

[Destiny]

Klaas....widdle Monklette said...you got mail

[Destiny]

Nice Post Lil Puma

I second that Lil Puma...Nice Post Indeed!

[Destiny]

We are supposed to get snow tonight...it took me ,and 4 other people to bring in all the plants in front of my business yesterday...and I thought Spring was here....silly me...

[Destiny]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

[Tamikosmom]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

******* ... I agree with you 100%.  A coverup in the Aruban investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... it has forced the family to ride a roller coaster from H--- for almost three years.

However ... this wannabe detective is unsure of her position regarding Patrick.  She am not yet willing to give him the benefit of my doubt ... give him a free pass that he was not part of an Aruban plan to implicate 'only' Joran and ... distance all other participants in the events that encompass the disappearance of Natalee Holloway ... an Aruban plan to give a measure of closure to the family ... an Aruban plan that would silence the family and ... cause the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen to become of distance memory.

This wannabe detective could be wrong and ... the three cups of strong caffeinated morning coffee she consumed ...

Janet

+++++++++++

THE ARUBAN PLAN ?


<snipped>

The boycott can go on forever, but at a certain point it ceases to be any good for anyone and that point started after I got Joran’ confession and Beth found peace after she came to know what happened to her daughter.
 
Greetings,
Patrick van der Eem

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2778.0

[Tamikosmom]

******* ... please edit the above post by inserting a question mark (?) following the title THE ARUBAN PLAN.

Thank you

Janet

[GBMW]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

All he's really saying is that he doesn't want the innocent people on Aruba to suffer anymore....sorry but I don't see what's wrong with that.

Anyway here are the recent comments / replies of his site:

#

April 14th, 2008 at 9:18 pm

Katie Rendon said:

ARE YOU FOR REAL… WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR POSITION ON THIS. YOU WERE SO SUPPORTIVE OF BETH.. PATRICK DID THEY THREATEN YOU AND YOUR FAMILY OR PAY YOU OFF.. ITS NOT LIKE YOU.. IM VERY CONFUSED AND DISAPPOINTED..

RESPONSE PATRICK

Dear Katie,

Yes, I am for real.

I have never changed my position on the boycott. Actually, this shows the kind of misconceptions that can also explain the continued calls for a boycott. How can you say something like that. Katie? From the moment of the broadcast, for insiders even earlier, I have explained I did this for the Aruban people to redeem the island. After three years of law enforcement being unable to bring Joran down, I took the case in my own hands. Whenever the boycott was discussed on my website or at scaredmonkeys.com I made my point of view clear. It has never been different. I love Aruba, I love the people of Aruba and I love the people of the USA, the country I visited for the first time when my grandparents lived in Miami. It worries me even more to notice what the level of information is on what you, and therefore the people for all this hate against Aruba, base their decisions on. Do you follow all these calls for a boycott with the same ignorance you put things in my shoes?

I am very supportive of Beth and she is supportive of me. It is very peculiar that you wrote this and it makes me realize something else, Angela. You suggest if what you think is good to do today is very supportive to Beth. Have you ever asked her? Have you talked about it with her, like I did? If not, why do you think you have to represent people you don’t even know?

I respect the people of scaredmonkeys.com. It is a great website. Many internet forums are people who just shout dumb or use continuous four letter words, but here I though a discussion was going on. I never assumed the name was anything more than a parody and did not apply to the people who chat there. Many websites are filled with people who are nutty conspiracy theorists, but I never thought about that when I think of scaredmonkeys. I believe that all what the people did there was with such a good intention, also the earlier boycott calls, but things changed. It is just a disappointment to see that even such a clear point of view as mine is regarded by you as something that must be the result of a threat. I don’t let anybody threaten me, dear, so much should be clear when I step into the lion’s den to fight the on-going calls for a boycott. I am Patrick, and not a ‘scared monkey’!

Greetings and best wishes,

Patrick
#

April 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

Soph said:

Hi Patrick,

Trying to help here — most, if not all, of the people at Scared Monkeys consider you a hero. Perhaps you could suggest a specific activity to honor Natalee’s memory and your work on her case by volunteering at Dave Holloway’s website at:

http://www.nataleehollowayfoundation.net/volunteer.html

Good luck.

Soph

RESPONSE PATRICK

Yes, I have proposed to Beth that she requests the Aruban government to organize a Natalee Alert on the island when in future again a tourist goes missing late in the night. I’m working on it, but first I want to finish my book to get the real story on the table and to show the full width of Joran’s confession to the public.

Greetings, Patrick
#

April 14th, 2008 at 9:43 pm

Vicky Davis said:

Hi Patrick,
I didnt mean to send that email to you..but since you got it, Let me explain a few things to you.
The GOOD people of LIERUBA held up signs telling BETH to go home…The GOOD Oderber made Beth apolize to the ppl of that island…HER DAUGHTER is still missing there and they wanted her to SHUT UP and go away…Charles Croes said he wished Natalee had just stayed home, Well, I bet anything NATALEE wished she had just stayed home…That filthy PIG URINE is SICK…like so mant other DUTCH boys on that Island that have now left. There is corruption there and a huge COVER UP…Crimminals abound there and until there is JUSTICE FOR NATALEE we the PEOPLE will not go away…GET IT STRAIGHT…WE ARE NOT HAPPY…We will BOYCOTT LIERUBA until there is JUSTICE…..PLEASE, dont insult our intelligence by comparing the US to that VILE place….We know there is crime here but, we dont promote ourselves as a SAFE HAPPY ISLAND…GET IT…
So, until ALL of the perps that attacked Natalee and caused her to remain gone are persecuted…so sorry…but LIERUBA will be BOYCOTTED.
Vicki

PS…You can post this also….

PATRICK’S RESPONSE

Hi Vicky,

Yes of course I will post this too, after all it’s worth a good discussion.

Generalisations are never good, your word game of LIERUBA is childish, coz not everybody in Aruba is lying, like not everbody in the US is lying. That is racist.

The people who held up those signs are not good people of Aruba. How many were they? 20?? We have 110,000 people there. Sometimes idiots held up idiot signs in the USA or elsewhere too, and that makes them indeed idiots.

I have never heard that Oduber made Beth apologize, for God sakes, I hope she never did, because Aruba has to apologise to her. Where can I read that by the way.

I have responded already about what Charles Croes said in my earlier response to a comment. It is not civil. I find your words also not civil. Never lower yourself.

It is a lot of bias to talk about “so many Dutch boys” in this sense. Again it is racist to think that “Dutch boys” are filthy pigs and there is no proof at all that they are more or less “filthy pigs” than any other boys in the world.

“Criminals abound there” is a silly thing to say. There are more criminals abound in the USA. That is a proven fact. Unfortunately. It does not make me happy or so. When you write something like that, then don’t become all belligerent about your intelligence, Vicky, when I compare the crime rate in the USA and say that Aruba is a safer place. It’s a fact. Start with your own sins, before you attack others is a very old and good thing to take to heart.

I know the issue is also that you feel the case of Natalee is not dealt with correctly. I agree. But I’m not biased and racist and I do not judge on things I’m not qualified to judge. I judge Joran because I’m qualified after 6 months listening to him. Your email address is “justiceformatalee” and I brought justice for Natalee and more justice will be brough. But you can only show disrespect. There was disrespect in Aruba also. But I do not believe disrespect has to be fought with disrespect. I believe respect battles disrespect, Vicky. I brought justice to help all the good people in Aruba.

It is also not true that your tourist authorities do not want to promote the USA as a safe place.

I am making a point that cannot be too hard for you to understand. Peoplewho think they are God themselves and have the right to call for a boycot should once try to engage in a higher level of thinking.

If in one place the number of crimes is 100 per 100,000 people and in the other place 10 and the boycot is a true and good weapon, then you must boycot the place of the 100 crimes first. That means you must boycot your own streets also, Vicky and the streets of many other countries. It’s that simple. But as an activist, as yo are, and I do respect people who fight for a cause, then your energy is so much better spend to focus most on the more rotten places. Maybe you are not a person of reason, but don’t try to sow unreason, because then the only thing you harvest is unreason in the end.

I want the perps who attacked Natalee to be prosecuted also. For sure it was Joran. He got help and the prosecutors in Aruba, de Vries and myself are working on it. You dont’ boycot a country for that. if this is the level of thinking in the world, peace will never arrive, nd certainly not your kind of peace which seems to be undirected racism and hatred. Still I hope you will find peace, Vicky.

Greetings,

Patrick

[klaasend]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

This is the most recent photo of Joran I have.  It was taken right around the time the confession tape came out.

[klaasend]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

[Destiny]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

I think it's just a slow day Klaas...you got mail...

[Destiny]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

This is the most recent photo of Joran I have.  It was taken right around the time the confession tape came out.

He looks absolutely *demonic* in that photo...

[igsigs]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

Good point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P: How did you know she was dead, Joran?

J: I just know it.

P: How did you see that? Did you check her pulse, or something?

J: I just touched her. But there was nothing any more. It was done.