Natalee Case Discussion #747 4/11 - 4/17/08

[Destiny]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

I think it's just a slow day Klaas...you got mail...

Hotmail Klaas

[caesu]

i can't blame Patrick for defending his fellow hard working people of Aruba who would suffer if a boycott would be in place.
they can't help it when their justice system / government is failing or is sending out misinformation.

these people already are for a large part fed up with the current Aruban government too.
when the strikers took over the parliament last week for three days - this is a big message i think - imagine that happening to the congress.

boycott won't work anyway, state enforced boycott of cuba never worked - many americans still travel there via canada and spend dollars in this communist country.
and now with the u.s. dollar becoming worth less every day tourists would think twice to go to europe.
now to contrary i expect more are travelling to aruba because aruban florin is pegged to the dollar not euro.

but it doesn't matter much. patrick will keep us informed about the civil case.
these subpoenas must have been sent now. don't know when the court hearings will start.

coming sunday a new peter r. de vries program. first program is not about natalee, but about a man who was convicted for murdering his wife and did internet-dating while he was in prison. peter r. de vries is warning the public for such people. but this killer went to court to prevent peter r. from showing his face on tv and he won.
eight programs in a row - i am sure he will keep us updated about natalee too - or dedicate a program to her.

[igsigs]

Anybody following Henk Strootman? He is sticking to his (confusing imo) Daury story. Something about Daury Rodriguez being a *boat guy* but maybe not *the boat guy*. But still involved...maybe?

[nimrod]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

Good question. I can't tell you why.

[Tamikosmom]

Can someone please tell me why we care what Patrick thinks about the boycott?

It is not Patrick opinion on the Boycott that concerns me.  Many who desire justice for Natalee Holloway have mixed emotions on the issue.

However ... Patrick upholds those who are involved in or aware of the corrupt investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on earth for almost three years ... that makes me suspicious.  Patrick is not that naive.  Hey ... most Monkeys ... like Beth and Jug ... clued in that a coverup was taking place within days of Natalee's disappearance.

Janet

+++++++++


Dear all,
 
By now you probably all know that I am disappointed by the continuous call for a boycott of Aruba . It is a small reward to ask when you invest five months of your life to get the confession of Joran. Not only did this confession led to big problem for Joran, who can’t show his face on the streets anymore,  with an upcoming civil suit, but also police and prosecutors are working hard on the case and the load of tips the broadcast brought. There is no indication at all at this moment that the justice department of Aruba is NOT investigating the case under the rules of Dutch law (which is mainly the law of Aruba ). It was clear the last three years that Aruban law enforcement could not bring the case against Joran to a good end. It was clear that this poisoned the relationship between the people in America and the people of Aruba . This was one of my main reasons to take matters in my own hand. Instead of asking for a financial reward that had been put out for tips that led to the breakthrough of the case (there was another reward for finding the body), I requested for the reward to stop any boycott which hurts the normal people in Aruba . I have said that I am disappointed with all people in the US who do not want to honor that request.
 
I am not going into any claims of possible corruption in Aruba from the moment Natalee disappeared because I do not have the knowledge, nor the evidence, that there has been any official government corruption in this case. God knows if the father of Joran has used personal contacts to try to influence the outcome of the case when he was a judge in training. If so, than I would not call it official corruption, but the act of a man who is not even Aruban. I believe that many people who want to follow this kind or requests do also not have first hand information about true facts of corruption, but as followers just base their opinion on the suggestion and speculation of others.
 
I understand the American people are disappointed about what happened in Aruba after the disappearance of Natalee. I was disappointed too. And I did what I had to do.
 
This mail for a call on a boycott campaign ended with the words “It doesn’t have to be an Island in the Carribean where CRIMMINALS are allowed to roam free.” That is suggestive, untrue and false. The crime rate on Aruba is much lower than in all states of the US . There has not been any major case like Natalee’s in Aruba anymore the last years. Statistics show that murder cases in Aruba don’t even come close – even that is an understatement - to the number of murder cases in the US and that includes unsolved murder cases. There is also no evidence that after Natalee any miscarriage of justice continued to take place in Aruba . Also the US has clear examples of miscarriage of justice, like in the case of Ron Williamson as described in John Grisham’s book, where prosecutors had to be blamed for mishandling a murder case, which left the victims in the cold (by not solving the case and making wrong arrests). I don’t have these particular statistics, but I would not be surprised if measured by crime rate Aruba is a safer place than the US holiday destinations mentioned in this email. My point is certainly, that without such statistics on the table, a call to boycott Aruba in favor of these places is shortsighted. Do all of you want to take responsibility for the next visitor of Key West or Destiin Florida who becomes a victim of crime, while that person would have had an undisturbed holiday in Aruba ? Of course not. The other way around I would not take the responsibility also. But do you know the statistics? If not, how fair and irresponsible is this advice for better holiday destinations?
 
I believe the continuous call of a boycott of Aruba is getting the quality of a ‘witch hunt’. Are there really any complaints how the justice department of Aruba is handling the case of Natalee at this point in time? What are they? Are you sure there is no bigger miscarriage of justice in your own country or elsewhere that would deserve a lot more all your energy and spirit? Especially after all what I did to bring this case nearer to a complete close and what the Aruban justice department is doing now. Do you really know what the Aruban justice department is doing now?
 
If it was a perfect world the bad guy would always go to jail, but it is not a perfect world. Yours neither Aruba ’s. The boycott can go on forever, but at a certain point it ceases to be any good for anyone and that point started after I got Joran’ confession and Beth found peace after she came to know what happened to her daughter.
 
Greetings,
 
Patrick van der Eem
 
p.s. This is an open letter, which I will also publish on my website.

[bleachedblack]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

This is the most recent photo of Joran I have.  It was taken right around the time the confession tape came out.

Just want to mention that the fellow on the left in the pic looks very much like the one in the I keep a diary photos that have been around for ever. That fellow was definitely playing a game of carving out of a tourist with who knows what intention......JMO

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

[klaasend]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

This is the most recent photo of Joran I have.  It was taken right around the time the confession tape came out.

Just want to mention that the fellow on the left in the pic looks very much like the one in the I keep a diary photos that have been around for ever. That fellow was definitely playing a game of carving out of a tourist with who knows what intention......JMO

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

BB - yes, we had that conversation.  Give me a minute and I'll post my side by side of the two 

[bleachedblack]

Klaas oh yea, in that side by side you can really see the similarity. TY

[Tamikosmom]

The Aruban people made a choice on July 6, 2005 in regards to where they stoodd on the Natalee Holloway issue.  Beth made a plea and .. the Aruban people's loyalties were with those who they knew had lied and obstructed the investigation in to the disappearance of her daughter.

Janet

++++++++

THE POOR ARUBAN PEOPLE

Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN LIVE TODAY
July 5, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: It is now that I ask the world to help me. Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter. These criminals are not only allowed to walk freely among the tourists and citizens of Aruba, but there are no limits where they may choose to travel.

I am asking all mothers and fathers and all nations to hear my plea. I implore you, do not allow these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers, to enter your country until this case is solved. Do not allow these criminals to walk among your citizens. Help me by not allowing these two to get away with this crime.

It is my greatest fear today that the Kalpoe brothers will leave Aruba. I am asking the Aruban officials to notify the United States State Department in the event these suspects try to leave this island. I am asking all nations not to offer them a safe haven. I am asking this in the name of my beautiful, intelligent and outstanding daughter who I haven't seen for 36 days and for whom I will continue to search until I find her.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/05/lt.03.html


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE
Page 157/158

No one is breathing.  Or Moving.  Reporters and camera people are crying.  The media hve been here more than a month, and they've seen firsthand what we've experienced.  They are moved by this plea.  But some of the Arubans are not.  Calling their local sons "criminals" offends them.  Having just heard the prosecuting attorney tell us at least one of the Kalpoes could be involved in whatever happened to my daughter.  I felt the term seemed appropriate.  But it led to an abrupt change in the tide of support.

<snipped:

Not long after the "criminals speech," some Arubans back off their prayer vigils for Natalee.  A few protest in the streets against the barage of negative media.  We've worn out our welcome at the Holiday Inn.  And they let us know they've had it.  The Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA), the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association (AHATA), the Aruba Trade and Industry Association and a scattering of island officials establish the Strategic Communications Task Force to combat the negative media.  And to combat us.


Some Arubans angry at Holloway’s mom
Calling brothers ‘criminals’ elicits resentment, statement from lawyer

MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 6:56 p.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - A latent but growing resentment here became evident for the first time when more than 200 people, some wrapped in Aruban flags, said they were incensed by statements made by the mother of missing American teen Natalee Holloway.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8484217


John Merryweather
'Scarborough Country'
July 6, 2005

JOHN MERRYWEATHER, FORMER ARUBA DIPLOMAT:  Well, first—no, no, first of all, I'd like to answer why I was at the—not protest.  It was a gathering in support of our justice system.  It was not a protest.  It never started out as a protest either.  I would like that to be very, very clear.  When I was there, I hadn't heard what the comments of Natalee's mother either of the day.  I was asked that after I was there.  I went there.  I was not part of the organization, but I went there in support of our justice system.

<snipped?

SCARBOROUGH:  No, what did Natalee's mother say that offended so many people in Aruba?   

MERRYWEATHER:  Well, you know, it—it—it offended me, also.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498049/


Beth Holloway Twitty
CNN - LAW CENTER
July 8, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The mother of Natalee Holloway apologized Friday for saying two released suspects were involved in her daughter's disappearance.

"The statements I made on July 5th were fueled by despair and frustration because of still not knowing where my daughter is," Beth Holloway Twitty said in a statement to the media. "I think everyone, everyone can sympathize with that."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/08/missing.aruba/index.html

[bleachedblack]

Klaas....do you have any *new* photos of Urine?

This is the most recent photo of Joran I have.  It was taken right around the time the confession tape came out.

Just want to mention that the fellow on the left in the pic looks very much like the one in the I keep a diary photos that have been around for ever. That fellow was definitely playing a game of carving out of a tourist with who knows what intention......JMO

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

BB - yes, we had that conversation.  Give me a minute and I'll post my side by side of the two 

There are a  few similarities....but after further comparison they do not really look the same only resemble each other. The darker skinned male on the right has a broader chin and a broader nose. 

[Destiny]

I personally think...it's better to have Patrick van der Eem, and Peter on *our* side...of course they have personal, and national, ties to Aruba...they should not be attacked for having those very real feelings...jmoho....

[klaasend]

BB - approximately 4 years between pictures so it's hard to tell but they do look similar.


O/T - construction update in Musing 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2531.msg373800#msg373800

[Destiny]

BB - approximately 4 years between pictures so it's hard to tell but they do look similar.


O/T - construction update in Musing 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2531.msg373800#msg373800

I think they are the same person...when you *pucker-up* your lips...the chin does appear larger, due to the facial muscles buntching up around the chin area...the eyes do not lie...

[Tamikosmom]

The Aruban people do not appear to be intimidated when it comes to protesting in mass and putting pressure on the "powers that be" when it comes to the choller problem, drug issues, environmental converns and ... higher wages but ... the corrupt investigation into the disappears of an 18 year old American citizen ...

Only when it was obvious that the Aruban people were not going to put pressure on their elected officials to provide a just investigation for Natalee Holloway ... did the boycott come about.

Janet

+++++++++++
 
Natalee Holloway: New Clues
Investigator Tells 48 Hours She Probably Died From Excessive Alcohol, Maybe Drugs
March 25, 2006

Last fall, Twitty called for a boycott of Aruba. The island’s tourism industry has suffered: Travel bookings are off more than 4 percent from a year ago.

Does she still support a boycott of Aruba?

"The only leverage that we have in getting any traction in the investigation is when they feel the effects of a boycott," says Twitty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page2.shtml


Alabama Senate Votes to Support Boycott of Aruba

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Gov. Bob Riley's call for a tourism boycott of Aruba has picked up support from the Alabama Senate, which says the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has suffered from too many missteps.

On Thursday, the Senate voted 27-0 for a resolution supporting a boycott of the Dutch Caribbean island. Sen. Steve French, R-Birmingham, said he proposed the resolution at the request of the family of Mountain Brook teenager Natalee Holloway.

Holloway disappeared May 30 while on a graduation trip with classmates. She was last seen leaving a bar with a young Dutch national and two Surinamese brothers.

The Senate-passed resolution said a boycott is needed because the investigation into Holloway's disappearance "has been plagued with an unacceptable amount of missteps, miscommunications and inconsistencies."

"It's my hope this will cause the Aruban people to be more demanding that their officials conduct a thorough investigation," French said.

During a special session in July, the Alabama House passed a resolution calling for a boycott of Aruba.

French said the Senate didn't take up the issue in July because the Holloway family wanted to give Aruban authorities more time to conduct their investigation. The family then became concerned about how the investigation was going and joined Riley in November when he called for a boycott. When the Legislature convened for a new session last week, French began a push to get the Senate to act.

Besides Riley, the governors of Georgia and Arkansas have called for a boycott. The governor of Mississippi, where Holloway's father lives, declined to do so.

http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1137707351114580.xml&storylist=alabamanews


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

[klaasend]

Janet - I agree.  What I don't understand is everyone getting upset about Patrick being against the boycott.  I don't know of any Arubans that are for the boycott.  Patrick is an Aruban.  I expect him to be against the boycott.

Edited to add:  It could be I don't get upset because my blood pressure has been nicely low lately...  

[Destiny]

Janet - I agree.  What I don't understand is everyone getting upset about Patrick being against the boycott.  I don't know of any Arubans that are for the boycott.  Patrick is an Aruban.  I expect him to be against the boycott.

Edited to add:  It could be I don't get upset because my blood pressure has been nicely low lately...  

I agree Klaas...let's not bite the hand that feeds us...

[klaasend]

Janet - I agree.  What I don't understand is everyone getting upset about Patrick being against the boycott.  I don't know of any Arubans that are for the boycott.  Patrick is an Aruban.  I expect him to be against the boycott.

Edited to add:  It could be I don't get upset because my blood pressure has been nicely low lately...  

I agree Klaas...let's not bite the hand that feeds us...

I'm not even looking at it that way.  All I'm saying is it's to be expected that Arubans will be against the boycott.  Not something to get upset about.

[Destiny]

Janet - I agree.  What I don't understand is everyone getting upset about Patrick being against the boycott.  I don't know of any Arubans that are for the boycott.  Patrick is an Aruban.  I expect him to be against the boycott.

Edited to add:  It could be I don't get upset because my blood pressure has been nicely low lately...  

I agree Klaas...let's not bite the hand that feeds us...

I'm not even looking at it that way.  All I'm saying is it's to be expected that Arubans will be against the boycott.  Not something to get upset about.

Right you are...

[Observer]

Like so many,Patrick knows very little about this case and I disagree with him..Natalee received a terrible miscarriage of Justice! I saw the email before work and never had time to respond to it and I totally disagree,but I respect him for his love of Aruba and his work with Joran.

I could write a book why Aruba needs to be Boycotted and why this is different then every other Murder/Dissapearance case. It makes me Ill even thinking about what the Aruban Govt did and continues to do to Natalee and her Family. This was solved 34 months ago and it's a obvious cover up. Patrick needs to get his facts straight if he wants to discuss this case with people that have followed it since the very beginning.

******* ... I agree with you 100%.  A coverup in the Aruban investigation has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... it has forced the family to ride a roller coaster from H--- for almost three years.

However ... this wannabe detective is unsure of her position regarding Patrick.  She am not yet willing to give him the benefit of my doubt ... give him a free pass that he was not part of an Aruban plan to implicate 'only' Joran and ... distance all other participants in the events that encompass the disappearance of Natalee Holloway ... an Aruban plan to give a measure of closure to the family ... an Aruban plan that would silence the family and ... cause the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen to become of distance memory.

This wannabe detective could be wrong and ... the three cups of strong caffeinated morning coffee she consumed ...

Janet

+++++++++++

THE ARUBAN PLAN ?


<snipped>

The boycott can go on forever, but at a certain point it ceases to be any good for anyone and that point started after I got Joran’ confession and Beth found peace after she came to know what happened to her daughter.
 
Greetings,
Patrick van der Eem

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2778.0

I agree with you bigtime Janet! I am not sure what to think of Patrick either,all I know is his email got my blood boiling this morning. My request is for him is to read about the case in the first Month as he is making the same mistake others have made from hearing misinformation and not knowing the facts. I think it is unfair and irresponsible for him to make these claims when it's obvious he knows very little about anything. He heard 10 confessions from Joran and not once did he ask any of the key questions like why less then 1 hour later a healthy 18 year old girl suddenly goes into cardiac arrest and is dumped into the ocean to hide her body forever. Something stinks bigtime and I am angry. Does he even know that others came forward before Natalee saying they were drugged and assaulted? If the ALE would have done there job Natalee would be alive today..I guess it pays when your Fathers best friend is police commissioner. Does he even know Jusge Wit,The Chief Prosecuter and the Deputy police commissioner are all caught lying when they blocked the search of the Sloot home? Since when do Murder and Kidnapping Suspects get immunity from having there house searched? I could go on and on... It's time for a active boycott and a travel advisory.

Re:Patricks letter

1.There is no indication at all that they are actively Investigating this case. There is no indication at all they are trying to solve this case and its obvious to everyone they have gone in the wrong direction since Joran's first confession.
2.The Aruban Law Enforcement couldn't bring this case forward because they didn't want to.
3.He says that if there was corruption from PVDS then it doesnt matter because he isnt Aruban.
4.The crime statistics in Aruba are proven to be BS and can't be compared to anything. They aren't lower then anywhere because Murders have been recorded as suicides and violent crimes and robberies have not been documented.
5.Natalee most certainly did receive a miscarriage of justice and still to this day has never had a Honest Investigation.
6.Beth hasn't found peace and if anything she has more questions then before.

[Buckeye]

Hmmmm..

Nothing much has been posted at Scrux.  In March, Medley had posted to Jonathan45, wondering if he was Patrick.  He responded today:

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject:     
Medleyrelay wrote: 'I am now wondering once again who you are' (then she said Patrick).

Jonathan45 responds:
Your guess was wrong. If you had written ' Jonathan45 is Joran's Dutch Daury who left Aruba on June 2, 2005 by boat to go to Bonaire', than it would be ...... but you didn't.


Did Van der Straaten, or Paulus or Anita take a boat trip to Bonaire??