Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[AZLady]

There's been a lot of money and political influence moving through Aruba for decades.  The money and power base on the island don't want to give up easily.  I believe they will sacrifice some key players who are really not such an asset to the organization if they can get away with it.  Some people will go down, but it will be interesting to see how far they will go.

[Frank]

Does anyone have a picture of Janssen at the beach in her heels, I need it.

[crazybabyborg]

Greta segment repeat coming up on Fox.

[AZLady]

Interesting that Croes was willing to give up Van der Stratten as corrupt, but he didn't mention anyone else, did he?  Karen Janssen worked so closely with PVDS, in the same offices, even.  Didn't he have access to her office?  No mention of her, yet. 

[caesu]

Cover-up at the Top?

Aruba's minister of justice reportedly claimed that the police commissioner hampered the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance to protect his friend - suspect Joran van der Sloot's father.

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265793&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3265797&referralPlaylistId=playlist

Greta van Susteren should invite Peter R. de Vries or Hero Brinkman on the show via phone or video connection.

this will get reported on Dutch news the next day. when Peter R. de Vries went in Larry King, FOX, and more - it was got reported extensively on Dutch TV. they think their little country has some importance and are proud Peter R. de Vries. 
but this time Dutch people will feel embarrassed and demand action from there politicians.
at least i do. but i know many more do. but it media outrage needs to build up.

yesterday was the first time is saw Rudy Croes name mentioned on Dutch TV.
i bet many Dutch people don't even know Aruba has it's own Justice Minister.

not wanting to get political here.
but with Bush as President many Dutchies/Europeans wouldn't mind if some Americans called them names or called for a boycott. they just called some unrelated random abuse back.

but now with Obama (he is VERY popular in Holland/Europa) i think they will feel more embarrassed and ashamed of the lack of action of their Dutch government.

Well if it takes a popular president to give anyone a conscience about an innocent girl on a Senior trip, then that speaks far more about the citizens of Holland than it does about any US president.

well, there are ignorant people everywhere.
but many here are embarrassed and are demanding action.
Joran is the most hated person.

but i just see opportunities here.

[Agraria]

One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.

It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.

He HAS thrown down the gauntlet...but in those circles...that usually means a mysterious death or disappearance. Joran has been allowed to be so narcissitic, he may think HE will always be protected. What will happen if he has finally pushed them too far this time? He has named too many and he does know the rest of the story we seek. There is no way they will allow him to go any further. Just wondering what's next...

[billb's daughter]

I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb

I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb 

::MonkeyCool::thanks Klaasend.
Monkeys WILL OUT THE barsters!!

[Frank]

Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?

[AZLady]

I agree.  Joran is a marked man, in more ways than one.  He needs to watch his back.  However, this has become bigger than Joran and the 2K's.  When he named the two police men who were paid by his father to cover for him, he moved this into a whole other realm.  That was really the important piece of information he spouted in that interview.  The names of the corrupt cops and his father's complicity have made this case bigger than just Joran's actions. 

[SS]

I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb

I'll just keep posting late at night....no one argues with my theories and I feel good knowing that everyone accepts my brilliance! LOL
I am excited by the apparent meltdown being exhibited by rudy, mos...pressure turned up by Greta(got to admit-I really couldn't forgive or watch her after she was inclined - but she is wining me back)/JQK and hope it truly does root out all those that covered up (kj, jvds, pdvs, king, witt, rudy, pm, dompig, richardson, mos, pimps and enabling parents....just to name a few...)...Holland-where r u?
I hate them all.....

I with you Billb 

::MonkeyCool::thanks Klaasend.
Monkeys WILL OUT THE barsters!!

billb - are you sure you aren't robots?

[crazybabyborg]

One of the burning questions in my mind is this:

OK, we have people who know what happened pointing fingers at each other.

No question there has been SLOW and TEDIOUS progress and none of it from any law enforcement official in this entire case. Progress has come from DeVries and Joran's motor mouth. BUT, I can't discount that at this juncture, the world has heard Joran admit he has involvement in Natalee's demise. That's a far cry from where this case once was.

So, what now? Will anything come of it?

That's my burning question.

It does look like Joran was exiled from Aruba, his family and friends, and his patience ran out.  We knew he would explode one day.  I think Joran feels he's thrown down the gauntlet but he's really opened the can of worms and shaken them out.  Justice is so close.

He HAS thrown down the gauntlet...but in those circles...that usually means a mysterious death or disappearance. Joran has been allowed to be so narcissitic, he may think HE will always be protected. What will happen if he has finally pushed them too far this time? He has named too many and he does know the rest of the story we seek. There is no way they will allow him to go any further. Just wondering what's next...

Hi Agraria! I wonder that as well. I don't want anything to happen to Joran. His mouth has been invaluable to keeping things stirred up, and if you stir enough something's bound to float to the top!

[AZLady]

Janssen will be next.

I wonder why an attorney for the security guards wouldn't jump on this and sue for compensation? If Paulus got something, they must be entitled. Unless their black though?

Because the security guards did get compensation.  Agreeing to not bring a suit was most likely a part of the package.  I'm sure they were convinced that the package offered for their silence was more than they could ever get in a legal suit.

[AZLady]

Joran has a liar's reputation but when he starts saying things that can be corroborated, that's when they will shut him up.  How ironic that they thought they were safe with him on the other side of the world.  I'm grateful that Greta hopped a plane to Thailand.  I'm not so sure anyone else would have done that.

[crazybabyborg]

Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

[crazybabyborg]

Mr. Hey-el-man (phontetic spelling) is the witness according to Jossy.

[IBE]

Jossey said Mr. Hiermann, or Heirmann, Herman

[IBE]

Not pronounced like Herman like we would pronounce.

[Magnolia]

Greta just said it best.

Nobody or entity who can or could have, is or has done anything, and even now, nobody remembers what this is all about: Natalee.

Admissions of a cover up, and where are the authorities?

One would think that the Minister of Justice coming out
and saying that Van der Straaten and Paulus were guilty
of a cover-up would call for an immediate arrest of those
two at least.

[crazybabyborg]

Joran has a liar's reputation but when he starts saying things that can be corroborated, that's when they will shut him up.  How ironic that they thought they were safe with him on the other side of the world.  I'm grateful that Greta hopped a plane to Thailand.  I'm not so sure anyone else would have done that.

Yeah, I don't think so either. I'm grateful to her.

According to the last segment, apparently it takes a first generation tape to be a voice exemplar.

[IBE]

CBB.. you ears are better