Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[ldstlou]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

Morning Mum!!!

I have to be honest. I couldn't keep up with Caps posts..lol...I was so busy last 2 months,...I was away for quite awhile!! I keep bugging Lalas to catch me up!! I am sure I am driving her crazy!!

I spoke to Jug again this morning. He asked me to please try and keep everyone focused on what is happening NOW!! It could be HUGE!!! They really finally have real HOPE!! that the cover-up we have been investigating for over three and a have years is FINALLY going to be blown wide open. It is very real!! A lot is happening behind the scenes that we don't know of. The focus right now should not be on who is right or wrong amounst the Monkeys, it should be on JAN VAN DER STRAATEN!!! He holds ALL the answers!! And he is sweating bullets along with paulus right now I am sure!!

[AZLady]

As to the relevance of the discussion regarding Kermit's theory, I recall Monkey's poured over the details of pictures a certain wildly painted van and homes on Aruba in infinite detail.  The same could be said of these conversations (that they weren't important or relevant) but at the time we didn't know that.  Time will tell if Kermit's theory has relevance, but we'll only know that after we've thoroughly dissected it.

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Lala's for reminding me...

Here is the link for some early discussions in Shango on Clyde Burke. Kermie used a post to back up one of his posts...

Ask Lala's and Finngirl...It is all about context... 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2860

Maybe you have to explain the context...

Good Morning!...Shango 101 Context?

[AZLady]

I wouldn't worry about the Monkey's focus, ldstlou.  We have always had our eye on the real prize in this case--truth and justice for Natalee.  The more theories we discuss, the more we come back to that. 

[crazybabyborg]

As to the relevance of the discussion regarding Kermit's theory, I recall Monkey's poured over the details of pictures a certain wildly painted van and homes on Aruba in infinite detail.  The same could be said of these conversations (that they weren't important or relevant) but at the time we didn't know that.  Time will tell if Kermit's theory has relevance, but we'll only know that after we've thoroughly dissected it.

Well said, AZ. Here, Merry Christmas!


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/caz.gif

[BUCKSHOT]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

My point is simple.

Everyone, for the most part, concedes that Kermit is telling the truth. Kermit has asserted that remains of NH were found in the cage.

Other posters acknowledge speaking to the family of NH, as it pertains to Kermits assertions, and report back that they (the family) believe Kermit's assertions to be off base, and out in left field.

My point is: How can they both be right? Remains of NH were either found in the cage or they were not. Plain and simple.

If there are reasons beyond me for concealing the truth of the cage search, then shame on me. Was only asking a question, which seemed logical to me.

[ldstlou]

One more chi ching of 2 cents on this:

BECAUSE of the way this case has been corrupted by all who should have been investigating it, the door has always been wide open to explore any possibilities. In fact, the corruption is so deep, the cover-up so incredulous, the arrogance so blatent, that there just aren't any borders that define what could have happened, even when looked at by very reasonable people.

Agreed.  Kermit's pictures taken in consideration with various posts made in the past by OE and the actions of other individuals make this as plausible a theory to consider and discuss as Natalee being buried in Jalitza's grave.  Actually, I find the first more plausible than the second.

I will absolutely agree with both posts. NO ONE!! knows where Natalee is..not even her own family. She could be anywhere. Well...someone knows!!! whoever was responsible for disposing of her body. I think van der straaten is the one who holds ALL of the answers..he and the sloots!

[klaasend]

LDSTLOU - in a due respect, we can focus on more than one issue at a time.  The fact the Rudy is calling out Van der Straaten is not lost on any of us.  We have not lost sight nor dismissed the possibility of FINALLY something happening, some kind of justice in Aruba.

That said, it has no bearing on side discussions of how we got to to this point and where Natalee was disposed of/hidden.

[AZLady]

Thanks, CBB.  I guess it is time to get dressed for the holidays.  You see, some of us focus on one thing, and some of us focus on another!     And then, some of us manage to focus on several things at once.  Aren't we amazing Monkeys!

[Edward]

One thought I have on this gal Jalitza
Is the Holiday Inn video showing a gal who looked like Natalee. Beth took a look at the video and discounted it as NOT Natalee..
Was it actually Jalitza on that video ?
Part of an early plan to deceive and then eliminated..
Just a thought.

[MumInOhio]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

Morning Mum!!!

I have to be honest. I couldn't keep up with Caps posts..lol...I was so busy last 2 months,...I was away for quite awhile!! I keep bugging Lalas to catch me up!! I am sure I am driving her crazy!!

I spoke to Jug again this morning. He asked me to please try and keep everyone focused on what is happening NOW!! It could be HUGE!!! They really finally have real HOPE!! that the cover-up we have been investigating for over three and a have years is FINALLY going to be blown wide open. It is very real!! A lot is happening behind the scenes that we don't know of. The focus right now should not be on who is right or wrong amounst the Monkeys, it should be on JAN VAN DER STRAATEN!!! He holds ALL the answers!! And he is sweating bullets along with paulus right now I am sure!!

You are right Lisa...again!

Wonder who in Aruba has Paulus' phone records?

[Tamikosmom]

DECEMBER 2, 2008

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR HOLLOWAY FAMILY

Holloway Attorney: Pleas for Arrest Met With 'Deafening Silence'
Wednesday, December 03, 2008

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: "Arrest them." That's what the lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family told the Aruban prosecutor. Joran van der Sloot told us "On the Record" that he sold Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba ...

Transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,460908,00.html


Holloway attorney awaits answer after demanding Joran van der Sloot's arrest

Video:http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3265793&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

+++++++++++

DECEMBER 4, 2008

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR HOLLOWAY FAMILY
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY
JOSSY MANSUR, DIARIO NEWSPAPER IN ARUBA

Holloway Cover-up By Aruban Law Enforcement?
Friday, December 05, 2008

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: John Q. Kelly, you have a voicemail. Well, the lawyer for Natalee Holloway's family has been trying to get Aruban's chief prosecutor, Hans Mos. Well, Mos finally returned Mr. Kelly's call, and apparently left John Kelly a rather nasty voicemail. John Q. Kelly is with us ...

Transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,462349,00.html


NO CALL WAITING
Aruban prosecutor calls Holloway's attorney

Video:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3265793&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

[AZLady]

Klaas, great Monkey minds do think alike!   

[ldstlou]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

My point is simple.

Everyone, for the most part, concedes that Kermit is telling the truth. Kermit has asserted that remains of NH were found in the cage.

Other posters acknowledge speaking to the family of NH, as it pertains to Kermits assertions, and report back that they (the family) believe Kermit's assertions to be off base, and out in left field.

My point is: How can they both be right? Remains of NH were either found in the cage or they were not. Plain and simple.

If there are reasons beyond me for concealing the truth of the cage search, then shame on me. Was only asking a question, which seemed logical to me.

That was a fair question. I have to go back to CBB's great post. She was POSITIVE based on evidence that the blonde hair was Natalee's. I have always said I truly believe Kermit 110% believes that Natalee was found. Was she? We don't know for sure...no one can say 100% for sure yes or no...we weren't there. I can say 100% sure, Natalee's family does not have her remains..and Natalee's family does not BELIEVE...because they were not there either..but they do not believe she was found in that cage.

[AZLady]

One thought I have on this gal Jalitza
Is the Holiday Inn video showing a gal who looked like Natalee. Beth took a look at the video and discounted it as NOT Natalee..
Was it actually Jalitza on that video ?
Part of an early plan to deceive and then eliminated..
Just a thought.

Edward, I believe the video Beth said was not Natalee was taken in a jewelry store (maybe in a hotel lobby, if I recall).  The video in the Holiday Inn casino of Natalee at the Blackjack table was identified as Natalee, as were videos of her walking into the casino.  Now, which video are you referencing?

[Anna]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

Kermit posted yesterday that experts said remains in the cage were Natalee.  I think it is a pretty good question to ask if the remains are Natalee or not since we are told the family says they are not.

Family supports Caps but which theory as he first said all Dave had to do was come down and claim the body.  Posted that several times.  Good thing Dave didn't.  At one point Natalee was even under Lorenzo's new driveway!  It was exhausting to dig all that up by hand, I can tell you!  Just kidding.

But theories have abounded that came to nothing and even the legendary Shango has given information that was just plain wrong. 

Keep in mind the massive misinformation campaign and it's more easy to understand how wrong theories can be born from all we have been told and led to believe.  The Strategic Task Force did a very good job and they started on the day after Natalee disappeared and were in full swing within ten days to two weeks to insure the truth was totally obfuscated.  I believe the DEA agent Eric Williams may have been working for them from the get go even when Beth first arrived but JMO.

Still, I just want to know which experts said the remains matched Natalee.  I still see a service cap instead of skirt in the photos.  So I think something of interest was there, just not sure who or what.

[ldstlou]

Kermit says Natalee remains found in cage.
Others, who claim to have spoken to family, say that Natalee remains not found in cage.

Question: Who is right?
(Remember: Kermit never lies..., Is the family lying? Why?)

second time for this post. Not sure what the point or the question really is?

Not sure either Lisa...Good Morning...

My point from the previous thread was...

Please read the posts that Kermit has quoted "In Context"

Sure Caps mentioned 3 ponds, maybe more...he didn't say Natalee was in any of them from what I can recall.

Morning Mum!!!

I have to be honest. I couldn't keep up with Caps posts..lol...I was so busy last 2 months,...I was away for quite awhile!! I keep bugging Lalas to catch me up!! I am sure I am driving her crazy!!

I spoke to Jug again this morning. He asked me to please try and keep everyone focused on what is happening NOW!! It could be HUGE!!! They really finally have real HOPE!! that the cover-up we have been investigating for over three and a have years is FINALLY going to be blown wide open. It is very real!! A lot is happening behind the scenes that we don't know of. The focus right now should not be on who is right or wrong amounst the Monkeys, it should be on JAN VAN DER STRAATEN!!! He holds ALL the answers!! And he is sweating bullets along with paulus right now I am sure!!

You are right Lisa...again!

Wonder who in Aruba has Paulus' phone records?

Betcha Rudy does!! I hope he does after announcing he knows of all the phone calls between paulus and him.

[AZLady]

That was a fair question. I have to go back to CBB's great post. She was POSITIVE based on evidence that the blonde hair was Natalee's. I have always said I truly believe Kermit 110% believes that Natalee was found. Was she? We don't know for sure...no one can say 100% for sure yes or no...we weren't there. I can say 100% sure, Natalee's family does not have her remains..and Natalee's family does not BELIEVE...because they were not there either..but they do not believe she was found in that cage.

I have no way of verifying what you've just posted. 

However, Kermit did show me a pic of blue denim in the cage.  He showed me references made to blue denim by OE and Private Eye.  However, he also showed me comments that lead me to believe the FBI was not given blue denim from the cage to test.  When my curious mind wonders about this discrepancy, I can only draw the conclusion that the fabric in the cage was not given to the FBI to test, although they admit to testing some fabric and it didn't relate to Natalee.  Hmmmm...this points to Aruban coverup, again. 

[Tamikosmom]

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #839 on: Today at 03:47:21 AM »

I think we are all in agreement that the original five photographs were sent to the family and they were posted by Robin on BFN.  I think Kermit's issue is that there were/are additional photographs that clearly show denim, etc.  This was not clear in the original five photographs.  I am not trying to speak for Kermit, but rather explain what I interpreted that she was telling us.  I think her concerns were that Kyle, himself, was initially concerned that information had not been shared with the H/Ts and the FBI.  I have understood that Kyle approached Kermit for help in getting this information to the family and the FBI.  However, according to Kermit, Kyle changed his mind and instead withheld the additional photographs.  Kyle also reported to Kermit that Louis had sold photographs for a documentary and Kyle attempted to broker photographs.  I could be incorrect, but I interpreted what Kermit said as she (Kermit) was the one who gave Beth the remaining photographs after Kyle chose not to.  I think that this is the big problem here and more so than the debate as to whether or not Natalee's remains were in the cage.  I think that the big issue is that information/photographs were withheld from the family and the FBI, and that because ALE has possession of the cage contents, there is no way to know what was actually in the cage.  I have intrepeted this as the big issue here.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.820

[vms]

Thanks Lala's for reminding me...

Here is the link for some early discussions in Shango on Clyde Burke. Kermie used a post to back up one of his posts...

Ask Lala's and Finngirl...It is all about context... 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2860

Maybe you have to explain the context...

Good Morning!...Shango 101 Context?

Morning, Mum.

Yes, can you do that in 20 words or less?

No, I meant that it seems to me that you may have to explain what Caps meant when her referred to Clyde Burke in that post.