Natalee Case Discussion #731 2/14 /08 - 2/15/08

[Lala'sMom]

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

Well, let's throw a friggin party shall we!!

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not. 

May GOD have mercy on these people.

Bladerunner ... thank you.  My sentiments exactly!

Janet

Great comments Bladerunner. He lies so his confession cannot be believed, he confessed the first day about the seizures and the cops covered it up. Mos and comnpany probably don't ever have his first statements but rather than ask why and investigate the cover-up they just take the low road and continue covering it up themselves with legal jargon. Sorry, doesn't wash, the cover-up is too damn obvious.
[/quote]

Because the ALE did not do their jobs...there is now no evidence to link anyone with anything.  What we know is probably more than the entire dossier (yes, the one Refro loves to quote) in this case.  If Aruba isn't going to prosecute Joran...then released what evidence you do have and let the whole world know how totally stupid and incompetent you are!!  All of us here at SM already know. 

Sorry, my frustration level is rising...need a break.

[Bladerunner]

I want to follow up on this part of the release I commented on:

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”


How did this go down in court? If you're trying to get the judges to see that Joran was telling the truth on the tape, why you say he has a "serious personality disorder". Something just does not make sense here. The press release states this using em dashes for emphasis. Why did they feel the need to emphasize that it was the prosecution that voiced this concern?

[Lifesong]

Ya know - while most of these recent events in last few months don't sit right with me, joran's confession notwithstanding, two of them are especially troubling.

First, when Joran was arrested in November, there were reports of infiltration and secret recording of him by someone close to him in Holland.  This was not part of the 'new' evidence Mos presented and these reports were never explained.

Second, both Peter and Patrick stated in interviews that either the day before or the actual day that they were supposed to start recording Joran in the outfitted SUV he was suddenly arrested and taken to Aruba.

These two items of information taken together lead me to believe that Joran was arrested and returned to Aruba to PREVENT him from confessing on the hidden tapes.   Even JQK said Mos didn't have anything new at the time.

It was fortunate that Joran is such an *sshole that he'd come right out of jail, get into the vehicle and start talking.

JMO, of course.

Lifesong....I said that same thing this morning in little rant in the 'Shango' thread. I believe the word I used was 'setup'!

There is no way that the PTB in Aruba didn't know about this. I hope deVries is hopping mad.

Thanks, Mum!  Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.  I still smell a rat over that November arrest with no new evidence and the leaked reports of infiltration/secret recording RIGHT BEFORE it started. 

I agree with your word - SETUP!

[teacat]

Suspect in Natalee Holloway case fears for life
Published: Friday 15 February 2008 08:06 UTC
Last updated: Friday 15 February 2008 15:13 UTC

Hilversum - Bert de Rooij, the lawyer of the main suspect in the Natalee Holloway case, has told Radio Netherlands Worldwide that his client Joran van der Sloot is in hiding in the Netherlands and fears for his life. "He's not hiding from the police, but from a nationwide kangaroo court. He has very good reason to fear that, if he goes out, he won't make it to the other side of the street."

The lawyer was referring to the public response to a television show broadcast on Dutch television on 3 February, in which Joran van der Sloot revealed his part in Natalee Holloway's disappearance in hidden camera footage. The two-hour programme was watched by seven million viewers, more than any Dutch TV programme this century. The undercover operation was the brainchild of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

Mr De Rooij said some of the things Mr Van der Sloot said during the programme couldn't possibly be true.

for some reason I can't copy the rest....

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5643380/Suspect-in-Natalee-Holloway-case-fears-for-life

aawwwhh He's having issues...... can't leave the house...... isn't welcome back in Aruba..... hey!   
Here's a thought!!!!!

Maybe he should ".......go (back) to AlaBAMA!!!!"  {envision Forest Gump, speaking to Jenny!}  I'll bet he'd be real welcome there......
 

[Peaches]

I want to follow up on this part of the release I commented on:

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”


How did this go down in court? If you're trying to get the judges to see that Joran was telling the truth on the tape, why you say he has a "serious personality disorder". Something just does not make sense here. The press release states this using em dashes for emphasis. Why did they feel the need to emphasize that it was the prosecution that voiced this concern?

If the Court has a question concerfning the goon's mental fitness or lack thereof, why don't they detain him for psychiatric evaluation?  He's obviously a danger to others.

[Dayhiker]

I am confused.  Something is not right!

Why is the American media silent in to regards to yesterday's ruling?  All major networks must have picked up on it by now.  Greta was alluding to it last night.  Nothing but a mention hidden deep in an article by ABC regarding the connection between the date rape drug and ... Natalee's condition as per Joran.  Why are Americans not outraged?

What is Senator Richard Shelby take on the latest developments?  Could he be encouraged to again make a stand for Natalee Holloway ... an 18 year old American citizen?

i am sure americans are outraged??

but it would be good if a american politician makes a damning comment about the dutch system.
make it an election issue.

remember all those international courts and tribunals in the hague.
the plan of the city is to attract even more courts to become some judicial capital of the world.

america didn't sign up with one of those courts or tribunals because bush didn't want to risk army officials or politicians to have to go to court there.

if america starts questioning why al those international courts should be in the hague of all places.
without even mentioning natalee holloway by name - to not directly interfere with a foreign justice system.

i think the dutch gov will get the message. and it will hurt.

Caesu, Imnoangel, and our other Dutch friends. You are much appreciated here. I hope you don't take offense when I rail at the Dutch government. They knew right off that Paulus was a judge in training for their judicial system in Aruba and had to have friends in the system, and they should have gotten involved from the very start. They should have recognized a conflict of interest right away and made sure judges were in place from Holland that had no connection to Paulus van der Sloot. They sat back on their asses and did nothing. All we saw for years was the Arubans saying it was a Dutch problem and the Dutch saying it was an Aruban problem.

Now Ballkende comes out with this comment like a light bulb just went off in his head! It's ridiculous to think it took him this long to surmise the Dutch are taking a beating in this case. The Dutch system looks horrendous in all of this regardless of whether it happened in Aruba or not.

[Silverfox]

Ya know - while most of these recent events in last few months don't sit right with me, joran's confession notwithstanding, two of them are especially troubling.

First, when Joran was arrested in November, there were reports of infiltration and secret recording of him by someone close to him in Holland.  This was not part of the 'new' evidence Mos presented and these reports were never explained.

Second, both Peter and Patrick stated in interviews that either the day before or the actual day that they were supposed to start recording Joran in the outfitted SUV he was suddenly arrested and taken to Aruba.

These two items of information taken together lead me to believe that Joran was arrested and returned to Aruba to PREVENT him from confessing on the hidden tapes.   Even JQK said Mos didn't have anything new at the time.

It was fortunate that Joran is such an *sshole that he'd come right out of jail, get into the vehicle and start talking.

JMO, of course.

Lifesong....I said that same thing this morning in little rant in the 'Shango' thread. I believe the word I used was 'setup'!

There is no way that the PTB in Aruba didn't know about this. I hope deVries is hopping mad.

Thanks, Mum!  Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.  I still smell a rat over that November arrest with no new evidence and the leaked reports of infiltration/secret recording RIGHT BEFORE it started. 

I agree with your word - SETUP!

Perhaps the tipoff was made to certain high ranking officials in Aruba and they had Joran Picked up in November for purposes of "briefing him" about what was about to happen (secret video taping) so that he could "plant" a story back in Holland once he returned -- sorta like "chumming"" the fish so to speak.

[Silverfox]

Ya know - while most of these recent events in last few months don't sit right with me, joran's confession notwithstanding, two of them are especially troubling.

First, when Joran was arrested in November, there were reports of infiltration and secret recording of him by someone close to him in Holland.  This was not part of the 'new' evidence Mos presented and these reports were never explained.

Second, both Peter and Patrick stated in interviews that either the day before or the actual day that they were supposed to start recording Joran in the outfitted SUV he was suddenly arrested and taken to Aruba.

These two items of information taken together lead me to believe that Joran was arrested and returned to Aruba to PREVENT him from confessing on the hidden tapes.   Even JQK said Mos didn't have anything new at the time.

It was fortunate that Joran is such an *sshole that he'd come right out of jail, get into the vehicle and start talking.

JMO, of course.

Lifesong....I said that same thing this morning in little rant in the 'Shango' thread. I believe the word I used was 'setup'!

There is no way that the PTB in Aruba didn't know about this. I hope deVries is hopping mad.

Thanks, Mum!  Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.  I still smell a rat over that November arrest with no new evidence and the leaked reports of infiltration/secret recording RIGHT BEFORE it started. 

I agree with your word - SETUP!

Perhaps the tipoff was made to certain high ranking officials in Aruba and they had Joran Picked up in November for purposes of "briefing him" about what was about to happen (secret video taping) so that he could "plant" a story back in Holland once he returned -- sorta like "chumming"" the fish so to speak.

Perhaps the entire "confession" was already "scripted" and all Joran had to do was learn his lines and look like an ass...with the guarantee of a pre-determined outcome,,,

[Frank]

Hey better late then never.

I don't think the Joran confession was a plan, I mean why bother? The case was dead as a doornail and did not help the coverup.

Now the coverup is more highlighted.

I know the people behind the coverup think they're smart, but even they know Joran is a time bomb, that's why they don't want him in Aruba, ever.

[Bladerunner]

I am confused.  Something is not right!

Why is the American media silent in to regards to yesterday's ruling?  All major networks must have picked up on it by now.  Greta was alluding to it last night.  Nothing but a mention hidden deep in an article by ABC regarding the connection between the date rape drug and ... Natalee's condition as per Joran.  Why are Americans not outraged?

What is Senator Richard Shelby take on the latest developments?  Could he be encouraged to again make a stand for Natalee Holloway ... an 18 year old American citizen?

i am sure americans are outraged??

but it would be good if a american politician makes a damning comment about the dutch system.
make it an election issue.

remember all those international courts and tribunals in the hague.
the plan of the city is to attract even more courts to become some judicial capital of the world.

america didn't sign up with one of those courts or tribunals because bush didn't want to risk army officials or politicians to have to go to court there.

if america starts questioning why al those international courts should be in the hague of all places.
without even mentioning natalee holloway by name - to not directly interfere with a foreign justice system.

i think the dutch gov will get the message. and it will hurt.

Caesu, Imnoangel, and our other Dutch friends. You are much appreciated here. I hope you don't take offense when I rail at the Dutch government. They knew right off that Paulus was a judge in training for their judicial system in Aruba and had to have friends in the system, and they should have gotten involved from the very start. They should have recognized a conflict of interest right away and made sure judges were in place from Holland that had no connection to Paulus van der Sloot. They sat back on their asses and did nothing. All we saw for years was the Arubans saying it was a Dutch problem and the Dutch saying it was an Aruban problem.

Now Ballkende comes out with this comment like a light bulb just went off in his head! It's ridiculous to think it took him this long to surmise the Dutch are taking a beating in this case. The Dutch system looks horrendous in all of this regardless of whether it happened in Aruba or not.

I'm not worried about offending the Dutch on this board because they know what the deal is. It's way past the point of worrying about offending ANYONE.

[Bladerunner]

Hey better late then never.

I don't think the Joran confession was a plan, I mean why bother? The case was dead as a doornail and did not help the coverup.

Now the coverup is more highlighted.

I know the people behind the coverup think they're smart, but even they know Joran is a time bomb, that's why they don't want him in Aruba, ever.

Agreed, a tipoff and script scenario are HIGHLY unlikely.

[Lifesong]

Ya know - while most of these recent events in last few months don't sit right with me, joran's confession notwithstanding, two of them are especially troubling.

First, when Joran was arrested in November, there were reports of infiltration and secret recording of him by someone close to him in Holland.  This was not part of the 'new' evidence Mos presented and these reports were never explained.

Second, both Peter and Patrick stated in interviews that either the day before or the actual day that they were supposed to start recording Joran in the outfitted SUV he was suddenly arrested and taken to Aruba.

These two items of information taken together lead me to believe that Joran was arrested and returned to Aruba to PREVENT him from confessing on the hidden tapes.   Even JQK said Mos didn't have anything new at the time.

It was fortunate that Joran is such an *sshole that he'd come right out of jail, get into the vehicle and start talking.

JMO, of course.

Lifesong....I said that same thing this morning in little rant in the 'Shango' thread. I believe the word I used was 'setup'!

There is no way that the PTB in Aruba didn't know about this. I hope deVries is hopping mad.

Thanks, Mum!  Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.  I still smell a rat over that November arrest with no new evidence and the leaked reports of infiltration/secret recording RIGHT BEFORE it started. 

I agree with your word - SETUP!

Perhaps the tipoff was made to certain high ranking officials in Aruba and they had Joran Picked up in November for purposes of "briefing him" about what was about to happen (secret video taping) so that he could "plant" a story back in Holland once he returned -- sorta like "chumming"" the fish so to speak.

Perhaps the entire "confession" was already "scripted" and all Joran had to do was learn his lines and look like an ass...with the guarantee of a pre-determined outcome,,,

You may be right.  I kind of think it could go either way...either they arrested him and yanked him back to the island to keep him out of the car, or they did it to warn him and tell him what to say.  I think the first is more plausible (who would actually trust this guy to get anything right?), but the second is certainly possible.

Either way, it certainly looks bad in hindsight.  Not a real arrest with real new evidence.  No secret recordings even made at the time, yet being reported nonetheless.

[Maggie]

I hope de Vries will continue his fine work and drive this evil off the plank, but IMO if he does have a plan, it will have to look like he's not interested in pursuing the case...or maybe he won't be interested in a follow-up and in that case will also look like he's not interested. Monkeys, keep the faith!

[Dayhiker]

Suspect in Natalee Holloway case fears for life
Published: Friday 15 February 2008 08:06 UTC
Last updated: Friday 15 February 2008 15:13 UTC

Hilversum - Bert de Rooij, the lawyer of the main suspect in the Natalee Holloway case, has told Radio Netherlands Worldwide that his client Joran van der Sloot is in hiding in the Netherlands and fears for his life. "He's not hiding from the police, but from a nationwide kangaroo court. He has very good reason to fear that, if he goes out, he won't make it to the other side of the street."

The lawyer was referring to the public response to a television show broadcast on Dutch television on 3 February, in which Joran van der Sloot revealed his part in Natalee Holloway's disappearance in hidden camera footage. The two-hour programme was watched by seven million viewers, more than any Dutch TV programme this century. The undercover operation was the brainchild of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

Mr De Rooij said some of the things Mr Van der Sloot said during the programme couldn't possibly be true.

for some reason I can't copy the rest....

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5643380/Suspect-in-Natalee-Holloway-case-fears-for-life

aawwwhh He's having issues...... can't leave the house...... isn't welcome back in Aruba..... hey!   
Here's a thought!!!!!

Maybe he should ".......go (back) to AlaBAMA!!!!"  {envision Forest Gump, speaking to Jenny!}  I'll bet he'd be real welcome there......
 

He's not hiding from the police, but from a nationwide kangaroo court.

And who's fault is that, Bert? Tell your client he needs to be accountable for his actions.

[truthseeker2]

How did this go down in court?

Something like this:

Joran Van Der Sloot



“You see Judge, what happened is this… Natalee really wanted me.  You know how it is when you are a Sporter.  All the girls want you.  Well, she was really, really drunk.  But she knew what she was doing.  Deepak, Satish and I dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, but not really.  Deepak and Satish left me and Natalee on the beach and, well, she just died so I had my friend come and dump her in the ocean.  I then walked home, but not really.  Deepak came and picked me up, but not really, it was Satish.  Actually, as I remember telling this before I know none of it is true because…well, I’m a little stoned right now so anything I say can’t be held against me right now.  Right?  No body, no case, right?  But my Dad didn’t tell me to say that, okay?”


The Honorable Judge Red Van Der Monkey:



Bullshit!  Guilty!  Take him away!   (what kind of fool does that boy think I am?)

[Frank]

Bladerunner,

Thank you for saying that, I've been trying to articulate that but you hit it.

It's way past the point of worrying about offending anyone. De vries, Mansur, Greta etc.

Jug needs more air time. He makes shango look like the coward they are.

[Dayhiker]

I want to follow up on this part of the release I commented on:

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”


How did this go down in court? If you're trying to get the judges to see that Joran was telling the truth on the tape, why you say he has a "serious personality disorder". Something just does not make sense here. The press release states this using em dashes for emphasis. Why did they feel the need to emphasize that it was the prosecution that voiced this concern?

It is obvious they are making excuses for Joran. They don't have the balls to do anything so they are taking the easy way out. Same thing that happened last time under Mos, same thing with Jannsen before that. Zero backbone = no justice for the victim.

[imnoangel]

Caesu, Imnoangel, and our other Dutch friends. You are much appreciated here. I hope you don't take offense when I rail at the Dutch government. They knew right off that Paulus was a judge in training for their judicial system in Aruba and had to have friends in the system, and they should have gotten involved from the very start. They should have recognized a conflict of interest right away and made sure judges were in place from Holland that had no connection to Paulus van der Sloot. They sat back on their asses and did nothing. All we saw for years was the Arubans saying it was a Dutch problem and the Dutch saying it was an Aruban problem.

Now Ballkende comes out with this comment like a light bulb just went off in his head! It's ridiculous to think it took him this long to surmise the Dutch are taking a beating in this case. The Dutch system looks horrendous in all of this regardless of whether it happened in Aruba or not.

i don t mind you saying that at all. truth is always appreciated

[klaasend]

Truthseeker - 

[Bladerunner]

How did this go down in court?

Something like this:

Joran Van Der Sloot



“You see Judge, what happened is this… Natalee really wanted me.  You know how it is when you are a Sporter.  All the girls want you.  Well, she was really, really drunk.  But she knew what she was doing.  Deepak, Satish and I dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, but not really.  Deepak and Satish left me and Natalee on the beach and, well, she just died so I had my friend come and dump her in the ocean.  I then walked home, but not really.  Deepak came and picked me up, but not really, it was Satish.  Actually, as I remember telling this before I know none of it is true because…well, I’m a little stoned right now so anything I say can’t be held against me right now.  Right?  No body, no case, right?  But my Dad didn’t tell me to say that, okay?”


The Honorable Judge Red Van Der Monkey:



Bullshit!  Guilty!  Take him away!   (what kind of fool does that boy think I am?)

 

Finally, something to make me crack a smile! I'm really fumed right now, but that is pretty funny.