Natalee Case Discussion #731 2/14 /08 - 2/15/08

[Nut44x4]

Sorry all ya'll.  I didn't intend to scare everyone off.

You didn't scare me  .....I am right along beside you

[ala_gunslinger]

Klaas --

Do you have link to JQK's NY filing -- when jvds was slapped with papers by Bo Dietl?

I think that's the one referred to.

Thanks!

.

Not sure if we have the NY Filing link.  That's NOT what they ar referring to now though, this referenced a Dutch attorney.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3311688/_Joran_geplukt_door_Beth__.html

Through translator:

Joran picked by Beth
Beth Twitty, Natalees mother, is preparing a civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot.
   
Mother Beth had a lot to with Nathalee

She has previously lawyer Bram Moszkowicz approached. Moszkowicz examine whether Joran van der Sloot has been guilty of 'tort', on the basis of which he financially can be addressed, so that the lawyer said Friday in NOVA.

Her decision follows the decision of the Court on Curaçao that Joran van der Sloot will not be re-arrested in the Holloway case. According to the court, the programme of Peter R. De Vries not enough significant new evidence. The Public Prosecutor and the Court will not rule out that Joran has a severe personality disorder, which makes him less credible. The OM goes by investigating his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Now a successful criminal therefore uncertain if Natalees mother, a civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot start. When it comes to a procedure will be conducted in the Netherlands. Moszkowicz notes two facts as tort: the shock that Beth Twitty is being taken because they had knowledge of Jorans confessions in the program by Peter R. De Vries, and the concealment of the facts by Joran van der Sloot.

According to crime reporter Peter R. De Vries makes it an important opportunity.

The civil proceeding is separate from the criminal prosecution by the public prosecutor in Aruba. The probability that Joran criminal will be convicted eight Moszkowicz small. He considers the decision to non-detention by the court of the Dutch Antilles as a clue: "I think the criminal case at the end of runs. I say that I do not understand, or that I agree with it."

Bram Moszkowicz

most well known Dutch lawyer imo.

but last year he made a huge blunder by defending Willem Holleeder (biggest gangster after Klaas Bruinsma) and it came out from the Endstra-tapes that Willem Holleeder blackmailed Willem Endstra. Moszkowicz was also lawyer of Endstra.
But Endstra got assassinated. Conflicting interest. So he had to pass on the case to another lawyer.
Holleeder got convicted of 9 years in prison for money laundering.
just last week he got arrested in prison for assassinations in the last few years.
the Endstra-tapes ware a sting operation in Endstra-car this time not by a civilian but by the police.

so maybe Moszkowicz wants to save his reputation and go all the way for Beth!!!!!!!!! 

there are hundreds of connections.
if you read all about it you know everything about the Amsterdam/Dutch-maffia.
of course Peter R. de Vries is also covering Willem Holleeder.
the last few years there have been many assassination in that maffia.
for a period almost weekly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Moszkowicz < wiki got just made not enough info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Holleeder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Endstra

Moszkowicz is a lawyer family.
Max is the father and David Moszkowicz, Max Moszkowicz jr., Robert Moszkowicz en Bram Moszkowicz are all lawyers.

Thank you for your help. 

[imnoangel]

you're welcome

[ala_gunslinger]

Sorry all ya'll.  I didn't intend to scare everyone off.

You didn't scare me  .....I am right along beside you

Nut, if you ever want to shoot some 'exotic' guns or cannons, let me know!

[Frank]

Imnoangel,

Great point. The tipping point for those in Aruba and Holland were 2 things I think:

The way Joran spoke about Natalee

The fact he wanted to get rich off Natalee and more important, the very people he claims to care about.

The second one will doom him.

I still predict you will never see the van der sloots even bring a suit anywhere but Aruba.

Is a small world now Paulus.

I wish the U.S. would have a reason to attempt to arrest the van der sloots if they step on any soil that has an agreement.

[caesu]

Klaas --

Do you have link to JQK's NY filing -- when jvds was slapped with papers by Bo Dietl?

I think that's the one referred to.

Thanks!

.

Not sure if we have the NY Filing link.  That's NOT what they ar referring to now though, this referenced a Dutch attorney.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3311688/_Joran_geplukt_door_Beth__.html

Through translator:

Joran picked by Beth
Beth Twitty, Natalees mother, is preparing a civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot.
   
Mother Beth had a lot to with Nathalee

She has previously lawyer Bram Moszkowicz approached. Moszkowicz examine whether Joran van der Sloot has been guilty of 'tort', on the basis of which he financially can be addressed, so that the lawyer said Friday in NOVA.

Her decision follows the decision of the Court on Curaçao that Joran van der Sloot will not be re-arrested in the Holloway case. According to the court, the programme of Peter R. De Vries not enough significant new evidence. The Public Prosecutor and the Court will not rule out that Joran has a severe personality disorder, which makes him less credible. The OM goes by investigating his role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Now a successful criminal therefore uncertain if Natalees mother, a civil lawsuit against Joran van der Sloot start. When it comes to a procedure will be conducted in the Netherlands. Moszkowicz notes two facts as tort: the shock that Beth Twitty is being taken because they had knowledge of Jorans confessions in the program by Peter R. De Vries, and the concealment of the facts by Joran van der Sloot.

According to crime reporter Peter R. De Vries makes it an important opportunity.

The civil proceeding is separate from the criminal prosecution by the public prosecutor in Aruba. The probability that Joran criminal will be convicted eight Moszkowicz small. He considers the decision to non-detention by the court of the Dutch Antilles as a clue: "I think the criminal case at the end of runs. I say that I do not understand, or that I agree with it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Moszkowicz < wiki got just made not enough info

i mean wiki doesn't look complete

[Nut44x4]

O/T Speaking of guns...where is San?? Is she okay? 2 days...no posts 

[imnoangel]

NATALEE…Y E FARSANTENAN!       
Tuesday, 22 January 2008 
Ta tempo pa e farsantenenan cu ta pulula manera musca entorno e caso lamentable di Natalee desentende nan mes di dje, y lague keda circumscribi na loke tin para den e procesverbaalnan policial. Fuera di nan, ken cu ta por specula, pretende di papia cu spirito, scucha voznan di ultratumba, enfin, bin cu delaster ridiculez posible. Esnan cu kier sa loke a pasa cu Natalee mester lesa tur e procesverbaalnan cu e intergadornan a traha despues di a scucha cada un di e tres sospechosonan, ademas di e tata di Joran y e cantidad di testigonan di interes pa polis.

 

Trece spiritistanan estilo Yomanda, o Negro Felipe, o Maria Lionza ta propio di hendenan cu ta biba den un mundo aleha di realidad. Y pa esnan cu no sa, un “spiritista” ta un persona cu ta kere den e doctrina cu e spirito di e mortonan por drenta den comunciacion cu e bibonan. Segun mi por a compronde, Rudy Croes parce di ta un creyente di tal doctrina.

E realidad di e caso ta, sinembargo, cu Natalee a desaparece ora cu e tabata den compania di tres sospechoso: Joran, Deepak y Satish! Punto! Ningun otro persona a bin padilanti pa bisa cu e sa concretamente kico a pasa cu e mucha muher, y no tabata tin ni un solo persona durante mas di dos aña y mey desde su desaparicion cu a constata cu evidencia irefutable cu e sa kico a pasa cu Natalee, ni unda e of su restonan ta. Di cu e por ta bibo? E ta un posibilidad cu ta sigui existi mientras no haya algun evidencia concreto cu e ta morto, pero mayoria di nos cu conoce e pormenornan di e caso ta convenci cu e mucha no ta na bida mas.

Mi a tende y lesa tanto disparate ultimamente cu tin biaha mi ta puntra mi mes si pa ocupa un puesto di Ministro e unico credencial cu bo tin mester ta un diploma den bobedad. Pa e Ministro di Husticia aparece na television den un di su arankenan emocional pasobra dos “spiritista” a bin cu un tou di invento tocante Natalee, mi no por pensa riba nada otro sino cu e ta indicativo di e nivel di inteligencia cu ta domina den e gobierno actual. Mi ta compronde e frustracion di e mandatarionan den ausencia di un solucion di e caso, pero loke mi no por compronde ni ta acepta tampoco ta e intento constante di Gobierno pa purba desvia atencion di e berdadero sospechosonan, navegando den e mundo di spiritonan cu e farsantenan cu un di nan mes a trece.

 
 

i have copied this from the diario, can anybody tell in short what it says?

[Anna]

Slowly, slowly, more pieces of the puzzle fall into place. . . .

Remember when Karin Janssen wrote that totally ridiculous letter to our Department of Justice asking if Beth was Hitler's sister's daughter or whatever Joran said, if she was related to Hitler.

My, how we laughed and laughed and speculated on that one.

It is now crystal clear, unfortunately, that she was in fact laying the groundwork for the "Joran Lies Defense" with that act.

At last I understand why an educated person would do something so laughable.

The OM I believe is supposed to remain neutral and represents "Justice" is that correct?

Except in this instance, OM, ALE and the judiciary were all extensions of the Defense Team.

There was never anyone at all to work on behalf of the victim in this instance.

I don't believe it is possible for OM to be neutral at all.  And if that's the case, why call them Prosecutors if they are in fact working to find only reasons not to do so.

MOO

.

[klaasend]

O/T Speaking of guns...where is San?? Is she okay? 2 days...no posts 

Now you have me worried.  I don't think I talked to her yesterday but I'm pretty sure I did the day before.  I'll check.  Didn't see her online last night.

[caesu]

you're welcome

i didn't watch tv today.

but i think Beth makes a good chance with Bram Moszkowicz.
also because he knows how to play the media.
and in this huge case that is important because everybody has an opinion about it.

[Blue Moon]

I have a hypothetical question.

Joran had stated that he wanted enough money from suing the Aruban Government to buy a house in Spain. 

Since he is no longer 'welcome' in Aruban, and he feels his life is in danger in Holland, what if he moves to Spain declares himself a citizen, and lives there.  Could he then be extradited back to Aruba if they decide to file charges against him, or would he be safe in Spain.  What about Portugal?  Anyone know??

Do they have any mafia in Spain?  What??  I was just asking...

How about Italy (where Joe practices law)?  Makes sense that Joe would want to protect the Sporter.

[JE]

so now all parties all talking about who s gonna sue who for what. Before the truth has even surfaced. Maybe we should all take a moment and evaluate this whole affair.
In my opinion it should be about justice. Are we al losing sight of what this is all about? A young girl with her whole life ahead of her went missing and i my opinion it happened at the hands of this JVDS person. I cant prove it and  maybe i m right and maybe i m wrong. But that is not the point. The point is that we apparently live in a society where money, connections, and swinging public opinion your way equals justice.
From looking at the de Vries tapes the impression i got was that if you, as a suspect of such a crime felt the need to brag about it to anyone whatever the reason, you should do the time for just aspiring to be the cool guy that could get away with it.
In other words there's no way you can be even remotely proud of being a suspect of such a deed. If i were a suspect of murder i could not imagine bragging about it to someone that i had known for 6 months. Hell I would not even tell or brag to someone i knew my whole life.
I might sound a bit vague here but my point is if people like JVDS are putting out books, and people buy them we are creating a society that is based on the infamous 15min of fame and lose sight of the basic values of right and wrong.
My lawyer is smarter than yours  so i get away with it it. That's what this boils down to. It s not about justice it s a game. And to tell you the truth if that's what this world and the human race is about it sucks.

Sorry if some of you feel i dont make any sense but english is not my first language

[imnoangel]

someone asked about peter de vries, if it is likeable he will be sued for making the confession tapes.

i can tell you that it is not very likely, peter has done this several times in other cases,
and he never got sued for it.

i have another question: if and when joran gets convicted for hiding natalees remains, is it possible that joran has to pay for the ongoing boatsearch?

[Tamikosmom]

Posted at RU by Glenda - no link of course:

Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.

J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not

Thank you Klaas.

[Anna]

you're welcome

i didn't watch tv today.

but i think Beth makes a good chance with Bram Moszkowicz.
also because he knows how to play the media.
and in this huge case that is important because everybody has an opinion about it.

But where can we see his PHOTO, lol!  Is he handsome like deVries?

Not being shallow or anything, just saying. . . . 

[imnoangel]

JE convictions are all about evidence. since there is no body and no evidence (yet), lawyers try other sources.

[ala_gunslinger]

someone asked about peter de vries, if it is likeable he will be sued for making the confession tapes.

i can tell you that it is not very likely, peter has done this several times in other cases,
and he never got sued for it.

i have another question: if and when joran gets convicted for hiding natalees remains, is it possible that joran has to pay for the ongoing boatsearch?

You have to have LOVE to pay for that.

[Anna]

Dutchie Posters,

Do not worry about your English!  This is a huge country with much variation even among us posters here.

We will figure it out or ask!

Thanks for all you are doing to help us.  We may not sound like it at times but you DO help us to understand much better.  At least it helps ME.

Also, I am Dutch American as are others here.  So you are not totally in hostile territory, lol.

 

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas --

Do you have link to JQK's NY filing -- when jvds was slapped with papers by Bo Dietl?

I think that's the one referred to.

Thanks!

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/hway/hwayvds21606cmp.html