Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 - 1/27/09

[Anna]

I've been lurking, lurking, lurking and wondering why noone is discussing the fact that TES is still working with the Silvetti Group.  Has Tim joined the DarkSide?  Is this subject off limits?  Is TES in cahoots with Silvetti?  IsTim not aware that he (himself) was kicked off the Persistence? Does he think he left on his own?  Should Kermit or the Freebirds warn Tim about what is really going on? Isn't Tim the one who asked for the donations right before the Persistence left Aruba?

Sorry, this is a drive by.  I have to work. 

Good to see SS and lstlou posting.

Another thought:  In my opinion, it seems like when a poster says they "stand with the frog" that statement in itself creates division amongst the monkeys.  It makes it seems like you have to choose to stand or not stand with the frog, when maybe you don't wish to choose at all, but you would like to have independent thoughts of your own. Yet, when you go that route, you get accused of causing disruption in the cage, and/or trying to mislead or asked if you are involved with Kyle or Silvetti, etc.  That is why I have gone to lurking.

I seriously doubt that Tim Miller is aware of how the search by the Persistence was concluded.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to send to him all the compiled information but then it is rather complicated.  He has been treated for a bleeding ulcer and has expressed a desire to retire.  Note he is still communicating with the Anthonys long after every one else has labeled them as evil.  Tim Miller has a great deal on his mind.  And he is totally non-judgmental.  That's not what he is about.

Recently he was on Dana but I don't think Dana took questions and the discussion was the subpoena for TES records in the Caylee Anthony case.  I can't imagine Dana just throwing questions out of left field about something like this at any guest with no warning.  He doesn't play dirty like that.

And Tim was not on the Persistence for the final dive but was mysteriously lead away by Marcos to Nicaragua.

I don't recall ever posting the words that I stand with the frog.  I might have but don't remember doing so.  I have said I stand with Natalee before.  It isn't necessary to post either one to post here unless one is incapable of posting without approval of the other posters.  I don't require that myself.

My thoughts are totally independent and do not require the support of all the other posters.  I may be the only one who firmly believes that Lorenzo van Rijn is not related to any Sloots, was born in Holland before his parents even knew any Sloots and is no choir boy but is not involved in Natalee's disappearance in any way. 

And yet I post here for the most part unmolested by other posters.  That's because I don't seek nor require their approval and praise.  I know what I know and how I came to know it and that's good enough for me. 

We all have our own therories and ideas and do not speak as one single voice.  Never have and probably never will.

Those that require total support for their ideas are just not likely to find it here.  We don't all have to think alike to all be seeking the same thing, justice for this missing girl, Natalee Holloway.

Certain information is posted and we are each free to either accept it or reject it, no requirement to state which it is and no requirement to convince anybody of anything. 

But some of the things that have come to light just do not have any good explanation for why they would happen at all.  And as time passes, there seem to be more and more of those kind of things revealed.

There comes a time when most thinking people are going to conclude something was very wrong with an elaborate search that ended with ALE having the sole custody of the finds of the search. 

I don't see any other conclusion that can be reached given ALE's past history.

JMO

[Anna]

O/T

And I am up checking on the weather being somewhat near the line of ice.

Doesn't look good at this hour for those in the path of the ice storm.

Hope everyone is warm and safe.

[klaasend]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/01/crime_reporter_is_tv_personali.php

Crime reporter is tv personality of the year
Tuesday 27 January 2009

Crime journalist Peter R de Vries has been awarded the Dutch broadcasting industry's most prestigious prize as the Beeld en Geluid tv personality of the year.


De Vries also took the award in the information category for his investigation into the disapearance of teenager Natalee Holloway on the Caribbean island of Aruba in 2005.

In September 2008, De Vries won an Emmy award for the same programme.


© DutchNews.nl

[Buckeye]

Dr. Phil/K2:

   

01/26/2009 at 08:30 am in Department 69, Edward A. Ferns, Presiding
Motion to Compel - Not Held-Continued

 Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW

Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending

Future Hearings
None

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil


 

[johan555]

Tres atracador di turista captura den forma relampago


ORANJESTAD(AAN)-Tres atracador ayera a comete dos atraco riba bishitantenan, y na un forma relampago, danki na bon observacion di un polis na civil den auto particular, a mira e vehiculo cu tabata ser busca y a notifica coleganan. Na un manera silencioso e patruyanan a yega unda e atracadornan tabata y asina cu nan a sali a pone man riba nan. E accion aki a ricibi masha bon elogio di e bishitantenan cu a bira victima di atraco. Den e edicion aki riba pagina 59 por lesa mas di e acaso aki.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200901055296/Local/Tres-atracador-di-turista-captura-den-forma-relampago.html

[nonesuche]

I have to weigh in here on some of the exchange here last night, not that I think my opinion holds more value than any other, for I do not feel that it does. But for the life of this case the only certainty has been Aruba's determination not to provide justice for Natalee.

I even closed another forum I had started just for fun, frolic, off-topic silly subjects due to all of the in-fighting here carrying over there. That was also due to another forum and it's anarchist leader, with posters that left SM to join him, and that then became the huddle point for some who then spun off the grumbling forum. I joined it because it had a chat room and others I knew well were there in the evenings, but soon I realized I just had no part there so I left without feeling the need to post all over the planet the why's or the how's.

When is enough? Why is the fact that kermit has an opinion that differs from others create such animosity? I've never been a big believer in Shango, I may be completely wrong if ever this case is solved with certainty and Shango is a key point in that, but I don't feel the need to bash others who think Shango reigns?

I will however state that I really do not believe that coorespondence with the family of Natalee is as deep or wide as some would portray that it is. I also hope posters don't spam the family for geez, haven't they suffered enough? What do you think John Kelly is there for? Do you really think he can't locate you if he needs your help?

To slam Tim Miller now is beyond the pale, if you didn't notice during the course of this case that he at certain points has zipped his lips in order to keep some form of exchange open with Aruba to allow him to continue to go there and participate in searches - then you were not watching carefully.

Anyway, try to give it all some thought in an effort to make sure you aren't part of the problem here. Another point I would like to make here is that Klaas and San have real jobs, they are not paid employees of SM as some would like to believe or broadcast. That is just another lie being perpetuated by those who feel their opinion is more important than all others.

The solution is real simple, if you don't like posting here then don't. If you do like posting here then you have to accept you don't make the rules and you don't have the right to tell SM how to run the forum.

Enough said, carry on.

[Blonde]

So CAPS is 2 different people?

two different people use that nic we believe.

I agree, by site meter and grammar used.

[Blonde]

QUESTION:

According to MOS, Tim Miller has never sent him the polygraph reports.  Does anyone know anything about this?

We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously. He is also claimed to have spoke with Hans Mos. Whether an actual police report exists of the witness is unknown.

Read the following English translation from Diario regarding the new witness, what he has stated what he saw that fateful night that Natalee Holloway went missing. Remember, this witness has passed two polygraph tests.


JORAN SEEN FULL OF MUD WALKING NEAR THE DAM WITH ONLY ONE TENNIS SHOE ON HIS FEET… (Diario)

THE DAM AT MONSERAT GETTING NEW ATTENTION IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

ORANJESTAD (AAN) Perhaps many will say today that God is great, and in
a meticulous way does His work so that every crime has hidden clues so
that the solution may be reached. Today it has gone so far that DIARIO
can reveal officially to the people that at last a masculine witness
has come forward.

This witness felt he could no longer hold back, and at last gave
his complete declaration as to what he saw at the end of May 2005, at
4′oclock in the morning, from the window of his living room.


Due to his fear of reprisals, he only gave to the local authorities a
partial statement, in other words that he saw Joran walk past his
house at 4:05 a.m. , walking strangely because he only had one tennis
shoe on.

The local authorities, principally Prosecutor Mr. Mos, was acting
very hostile towards this witness, and that made the witness hold back
the totality of his story to him as to what happened.

Nevertheless, with the American investigators and to his lawyer he
gave the complete story, not just the part regarding Joran alone.
Parts of the complete story will appear later in the DIARIO.

But, the first aspect of the story of this witness, immediately
created suspicion by the Americans. Even though he lives at about 1.9
kilometers from the Fishermen Huts, his declaration can have important
implications to complete this big puzzle.

The Americans wanted more assurances and asked the witness to
travel to the United States, where one of the most trusted experts in
Polygraph Examinations, the famous John S. Swastz, made the test with
him, to determine whether this Aruban witness was lying.

He passed all the examinations perfectly, and John Swartz is
convinced that this witness is telling the truth about what he saw at
4 a.m. in front of his house.

Even though Prosecutor Mr. Mos and also the Van Der Sloot family,
want to or not, this gives a complete turnaround in the whole
investigation. Today DIARIO focuses on the first part of the
declaration of the witness. What is being published today is what the
local authority (e.o. Prosecutor Mos) know from him, since they have
his signed declaration.

But the next publication which will appear in the DIARIO, will
reveal more than the authorities in Aruba know. This is something that
the local witness did not dare tell the local detectives nor to the
prosecution that received him in the beginning. He was too afraid to
do so. But, to the Americans he did give his complete declaration, and
he passed a Lie-Detector test in the United States to prove that he
was telling the truth.

JORAN’S CLOTHES WERE FULL OF MUD WHEN HE WAS WALKING NEAR THE DAM AT MONSERAT

First part of the new revelations by the witness

ORANJESTAD(AAN) A new witness who has proven to be speaking the truth,
is bringing the long-awaited clarity in the disappearance of Natalee
Holloway in May 2005 in Aruba. At last, after studying the new
revelations of the witness during the last few months, now DIARIO has
gotten the results back from the U.S. about the first part of his
declaration.

DIARIO again wants to put emphasis on the fact that Prosecutor Mos
has knowledge of this part, but doesn’t know what he did with it. The
second part which will appear soon in the DIARIO contains information
that the Prosecution of Aruba has no knowledge of at this point,
simply because every time the witness gave his declaration he was
pushed into a corner of fear for reprisals.

This witness, a man born in Aruba, went to the United States where
he took and passed a polygraph test successfully.

THE WITNESS SPEAKS:

It was on the night of the 30th of May2005 that he was asleep in
his room at his house, when he was awoke by the sound of numerous
dogs barking out of control and in very menacing tones.

The witness opened his eyes, looked at the watch and saw that it was
4:05 in the morning.

Listening to the direction from which the sounds of the dogs were
coming, he went to the living room of his house and observed what the
dogs were barking at with such urgency.

Listening to the direction from which the sounds of the dogs were
coming, he went to the living room of his house and observed what the
dogs were barking at with such urgency.

Under a street lamp he saw a person walking in the direction of his
house. He was coming from the sports field of Nacional, near the Dam
of Monserat, going in the direction of the hotels. The person on foot
passed under the following street lamp and the witness saw the person
very well and clearly. He was a notably tall, thin, masculine, white
skin, short dark hair, a relatively young man who looked like a
Dutchman.

He also saw the form (profile) of his head and one side of his face.

The clothes he had on was a red tee shirt and long clear colored pants .

Remarkable was that this person was walking with a limp, and here
is where the witness saw that he lacked one tennis shoe. He calculated
that from the way he was walking, he was missing the tennis shoes of
his right foot.

Another thing that he noticed was that the person was breathing
heavily, as if he had been running for quite a while. His chest was
heaving up and down rapidly.
CLOTHES WERE WET

The witness continued to declare (and proved with his test that he
was telling the truth) that the man he saw had on wet clothes, and had
a notable stripe of muddy waters that reached to his chest, about 5
centimeters more or less over his flannel.

The stripe on his flannel showed clearly that from the muddy waters
going down his clothes were completely wet.

At first the witness thought that this person had been in a fight
and ran away so as not to receive any more blows. The side of his face
that the witness noticed, however, did not show any signs of blood or
blows. But, due to the fact that the person did not once look over
his shoulder to check if anyone was following him, and continued to
walk with his head down and, with accelerated velocity, the witness
thought that he was involved in something else and not in a fight.

The person continued to walk in front of his house until he lost
him from sight, and in no instance did the man look up or back, and
continued to walk in the direction of the hotels.

All this happened in about 1 minute.

After he lost the person from sight, the witness sat in his living
room for about 15 to 20 minutes before he went back to sleep.

DIARIO COMMENT: Here something else happened, that the witness did
not reveal to the local authorities, but well to the American
investigators. In our next publication DIARIO will reveal what else
the witness saw that eventful morning. The Polygraph test he took
proved that here too he was telling the truth!)

The witness woke up and went to his work at about 11: a.m. Then the
news about Natalee’s disappearance was on the radio and he found out
that there was a tourist teenager who did not make it back to her
hotel. He immediately remembered what he saw a few hours earlier

After the news became bigger, and they began to arrest the wrong
persons, the witness felt discouraged to come forward, and after he
saw that the young man Joran van der Sloot in the news, he recognized
him immediately as the person he saw walking past his home.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noord

He also got himself a lawyer, because the case was so big and he needed advice.

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test
discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of
them.

IN another article, DIARIO will show how Prosecutor Mos paid little
attention to this witness and on the contrary, tried to discredit him.
This makes you wonder: Is it true that they want to protect van der
Sloot cost what it may?

I had this saved no link

[Nut44x4]

QUESTION:

According to MOS, Tim Miller has never sent him the polygraph reports.  Does anyone know anything about this?

I am behind, sorry if this has been addressed.

IMO IF Tim didn't send them, then this is why......

Mos told Tim that polygraph exams are not deemed credible in Aruba
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, do you have a theory? You know, we have obtained this evidence and we've spent the last several months trying to prove it or disprove it and what we're -- and do you have a theory why Hans Mos would not at least meet me in Miami, meet me on a weekend to look at it, or why he would not follow up with Dave, Natalee's father, on the witness that they have uncovered and apparently polygraphed? Why is he simply just looking the other way and just refusing to look at anything?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If Tim DID send them, then Mos is a liar.

[Nut44x4]

Does anyone know what happened today in the Kalpoe/Dr Phil case?  TIA

DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending

Future Hearings

12/13/2525 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012

Pleaseeeeeeee, can we settle this case??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNM2K8cmU8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic&feature=related

In the year 2525 by Zager & Evans

[Nut44x4]

So CAPS is 2 different people?

two different people use that nic we believe.

I agree, by site meter and grammar used.

ita, and have from wayyy back

[Blue Moon]

Kermit - I am not attacking you.  I have no reason to do so.  I am disappointed in the way the Freebirds handled the exposure of what took place on Persistence.  It was presented as a guessing game over a period of several weeks.

Our group was being lied too and also threatened.
So if it seemed like a guessing game; it was not intentional.
I know for a fact, many of the monkeys are really good and figured out many times exactly what was cryptically being said. You and wreck and magnolia and Janet and keepingtheFaith were/are sharp.
So are many of the monkeys, just not naming all of them at this time is all. So don't anyone take offense.
I think I have always pointed out when someone was correct.

I appreciate that Beth gave her permission to expose the coverup, but if there was a coverup involving fraud, public trust, and public finances, it was not up to Beth to determine when and if the questionable activities on the Persistence should be exposed.  If what you have told is correct, it should have been exposed immediately as an issue of public trust and because it was an attempt to defraud the public.

Yeah, that IS and WAS my statement to good ol Kyle. To which he continued threats.
 

I am concerned that the Freebirds feud became the larger SM feud and I don't feel that the resulting casualties were necessary. 

We do not feel that way. We/I knew who was doing what and when and all that. Not necessary to go into it.

I happen to agree that the activities on the Persistence were deplorable.  The way it was dragged through this forum was not necessary.

I believe I gave Kyle the opportunity to stop lying. He chose another path.
Because I was bringing the message a few didn't want to believe, I was called a number of names, insulted, lied about and it continues. Behavior is truth.
 

I am concerned that both sides of this Freebird issues claim to be speaking for Beth and Dave, yet Beth and Dave have remained silent.  I don't want to be told what Beth and Dave said. 

As I have said, the proof of whether or not Beth gave her permission is and has been given to the proper people.

I have heard too many people claiming to be speaking for Beth and Dave, and Jug.   I want to see or hear for myself what Beth and Dave think about the activities of the Persistence in relation to Natalee and her possible remains being in that cage.  There are people on this forum who have given years of their time in an effort to find justice for Natalee.  They deserve more than this. 

Here's my thinking on this. The grieving parents don't owe anyone anything. They have a great loss.
If anyone can help in anyway to bring their daughter home where she belongs in the USA, then that
is the goal I am involved in. Those who cause distrust, call or email the grieving parents with their petty
stuff are insenstive. I got the yes response, freebirds were informed and that is all that is needed. I don't need for them to say it again and again and again and then oh please go get my back for me at Scared Monkeys because a couple of posters are being outright difficult and slandering me.

I never took on this endeavor to find Miss Natalee thinking the parents would have my back.

BUT as I said, the people that needed the information are well aware.

As far as the financial aspects and money raising activities of the Persistence voyage, that actually has nothing to do with Dave and Beth.  That is a legal issue involving Silvetti, Schafer, and unfortunately Tim Miller with TES.  I want to know what is being done through legal actions.  If nothing is being done, then why not?  The issue with Kyle and the photographs is an additional issue with Kyle and the FBI, if he was in fact withholding evidence from a crime investigation and attempting to make financial gains.  What has been done and if nothing, why not?

Well, the FBI and John Q. Kelly have the evidence. Kyle told me in an email that the FBI did contact him AFTER the Freebirds sent the FBI the evidence.

I am very weary of hearing that the FBI thinks this, Beth says this, Dave says that, Jug said this, Silvetti said that.  Everything that we have heard (from all sides of this issue) about what these people have said is nothing more than hearsay.

Not true. I have emails as proof and evidence and I have posts. It's all documented.[/color]

None of us have yet to see or hear an official statement one way or the other from the FBI, Beth, Dave, or Tim Miller.  Nothing has come directly to us.  Yes, the Freebirds have come to SM and made every attempt to answer all questions.  The bottom line remains that they are not the principles in this scenario and anything coming from them is still hearsay or their own interpretation of what took place.

Not true. The Freebirds have the evidence and the proof. Even though, *some* individuals want you to believe we have taken "out of context" the statements/pictures etc. It is untrue.

I personally believe that this issue remains an issue because the issue has yet to be resolved.  We have all been asked to believe the words of various people.  The accusations which the Freebirds have brought forward are huge issues.  They are issues beyond this forum or any other forum.  I want to know what is being done with the legalities of these issues and if it isn't enough for Dave and Beth to take action or speak out, then maybe it isn't enough for us to even be concerned about.  We have seen Beth and Dave go to the mat over issues over Natalee, why are they silent now?

I can only tell you from my own experience, it's not like I knew what Kenneth Starr was going to do next.
But when you see the evidence at some point in time being exposed, then you know. Whatever the families strategies are or not is up to them I guess.

What I hear you saying is you want some concrete proof that the Freebirds are telling you the truth because for you it's a he said she said kind of case for you and if only Beth or Dave would say something that supports what the Freebirds have said, then you'd be a peace.  I'm not sure how to resolve your dilemma, other then to be respectfully respond with the truth of what I know. That's all I can do.

I have problems with this statement. I know of one "post", that you portrayed as an email...that was a fake, posted to try and weed out those who were posting on one board and running to "tattle" on another. This was the post in regards to Jug "knowing" that the Persistence was going to Aruba to search for oil first, Natalee second. That was a complete fabrication and you brought it here to SM as though it were truth. It was a set-up Kermit and you fell hook line and sinker. So how does one then trust anything else you have posted?
That is when I said this has gotten way out of hand. I know nothing about the politics and division that has occurred, nor what was involved to cause the split of forums, I am glad I don't and was not a part of any of that garbage. I do know what I have been told first hand, and I was e-mailed about the "set-up". Kermit brought it to SM and so it was "truth".

I will just participate in my protest of Aruba at the Travel Show, continue to support Natalee's family and pray for justice for Natalee.

I still would like to ask why no one has asked Tim Miller his opinion on the Persistence? Is it because it would not support Kermit's theory? Wasn't he on Dana's show recently? Why didn't anyone just ask Tim and end the questions and the division?

Yes this is a hit and run. I stopped by to post about the Travel Show protest and made the mistake of stopping in the forum to read...and this is still going on. I have nothing left to say...and nothing more I could possibly add at this point so I am signing off and going to bed.

    

[Anna]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/01/crime_reporter_is_tv_personali.php

Crime reporter is tv personality of the year
Tuesday 27 January 2009

Crime journalist Peter R de Vries has been awarded the Dutch broadcasting industry's most prestigious prize as the Beeld en Geluid tv personality of the year.


De Vries also took the award in the information category for his investigation into the disapearance of teenager Natalee Holloway on the Caribbean island of Aruba in 2005.

In September 2008, De Vries won an Emmy award for the same programme.


© DutchNews.nl

And what a wise choice it is!

Perhaps this will even result in more photos for my screen saver!


 

[Tamikosmom]

QUESTION:

According to MOS, Tim Miller has never sent him the polygraph reports.  Does anyone know anything about this?

We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously. He is also claimed to have spoke with Hans Mos. Whether an actual police report exists of the witness is unknown.

Read the following English translation from Diario regarding the new witness, what he has stated what he saw that fateful night that Natalee Holloway went missing. Remember, this witness has passed two polygraph tests.


JORAN SEEN FULL OF MUD WALKING NEAR THE DAM WITH ONLY ONE TENNIS SHOE ON HIS FEET… (Diario)

THE DAM AT MONSERAT GETTING NEW ATTENTION IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

ORANJESTAD (AAN) Perhaps many will say today that God is great, and in
a meticulous way does His work so that every crime has hidden clues so
that the solution may be reached. Today it has gone so far that DIARIO
can reveal officially to the people that at last a masculine witness
has come forward.

This witness felt he could no longer hold back, and at last gave
his complete declaration as to what he saw at the end of May 2005, at
4′oclock in the morning, from the window of his living room.


Due to his fear of reprisals, he only gave to the local authorities a
partial statement, in other words that he saw Joran walk past his
house at 4:05 a.m. , walking strangely because he only had one tennis
shoe on.

The local authorities, principally Prosecutor Mr. Mos, was acting
very hostile towards this witness, and that made the witness hold back
the totality of his story to him as to what happened.

Nevertheless, with the American investigators and to his lawyer he
gave the complete story, not just the part regarding Joran alone.
Parts of the complete story will appear later in the DIARIO.

But, the first aspect of the story of this witness, immediately
created suspicion by the Americans. Even though he lives at about 1.9
kilometers from the Fishermen Huts, his declaration can have important
implications to complete this big puzzle.

The Americans wanted more assurances and asked the witness to
travel to the United States, where one of the most trusted experts in
Polygraph Examinations, the famous John S. Swastz, made the test with
him, to determine whether this Aruban witness was lying.

He passed all the examinations perfectly, and John Swartz is
convinced that this witness is telling the truth about what he saw at
4 a.m. in front of his house.

Even though Prosecutor Mr. Mos and also the Van Der Sloot family,
want to or not, this gives a complete turnaround in the whole
investigation. Today DIARIO focuses on the first part of the
declaration of the witness. What is being published today is what the
local authority (e.o. Prosecutor Mos) know from him, since they have
his signed declaration.

But the next publication which will appear in the DIARIO, will
reveal more than the authorities in Aruba know. This is something that
the local witness did not dare tell the local detectives nor to the
prosecution that received him in the beginning. He was too afraid to
do so. But, to the Americans he did give his complete declaration, and
he passed a Lie-Detector test in the United States to prove that he
was telling the truth.

JORAN’S CLOTHES WERE FULL OF MUD WHEN HE WAS WALKING NEAR THE DAM AT MONSERAT

First part of the new revelations by the witness

ORANJESTAD(AAN) A new witness who has proven to be speaking the truth,
is bringing the long-awaited clarity in the disappearance of Natalee
Holloway in May 2005 in Aruba. At last, after studying the new
revelations of the witness during the last few months, now DIARIO has
gotten the results back from the U.S. about the first part of his
declaration.

DIARIO again wants to put emphasis on the fact that Prosecutor Mos
has knowledge of this part, but doesn’t know what he did with it. The
second part which will appear soon in the DIARIO contains information
that the Prosecution of Aruba has no knowledge of at this point,
simply because every time the witness gave his declaration he was
pushed into a corner of fear for reprisals.

This witness, a man born in Aruba, went to the United States where
he took and passed a polygraph test successfully.

THE WITNESS SPEAKS:

It was on the night of the 30th of May2005 that he was asleep in
his room at his house, when he was awoke by the sound of numerous
dogs barking out of control and in very menacing tones.

The witness opened his eyes, looked at the watch and saw that it was
4:05 in the morning.

Listening to the direction from which the sounds of the dogs were
coming, he went to the living room of his house and observed what the
dogs were barking at with such urgency.

Listening to the direction from which the sounds of the dogs were
coming, he went to the living room of his house and observed what the
dogs were barking at with such urgency.

Under a street lamp he saw a person walking in the direction of his
house. He was coming from the sports field of Nacional, near the Dam
of Monserat, going in the direction of the hotels. The person on foot
passed under the following street lamp and the witness saw the person
very well and clearly. He was a notably tall, thin, masculine, white
skin, short dark hair, a relatively young man who looked like a
Dutchman.

He also saw the form (profile) of his head and one side of his face.

The clothes he had on was a red tee shirt and long clear colored pants .

Remarkable was that this person was walking with a limp, and here
is where the witness saw that he lacked one tennis shoe. He calculated
that from the way he was walking, he was missing the tennis shoes of
his right foot.

Another thing that he noticed was that the person was breathing
heavily, as if he had been running for quite a while. His chest was
heaving up and down rapidly.
CLOTHES WERE WET

The witness continued to declare (and proved with his test that he
was telling the truth) that the man he saw had on wet clothes, and had
a notable stripe of muddy waters that reached to his chest, about 5
centimeters more or less over his flannel.

The stripe on his flannel showed clearly that from the muddy waters
going down his clothes were completely wet.

At first the witness thought that this person had been in a fight
and ran away so as not to receive any more blows. The side of his face
that the witness noticed, however, did not show any signs of blood or
blows. But, due to the fact that the person did not once look over
his shoulder to check if anyone was following him, and continued to
walk with his head down and, with accelerated velocity, the witness
thought that he was involved in something else and not in a fight.

The person continued to walk in front of his house until he lost
him from sight, and in no instance did the man look up or back, and
continued to walk in the direction of the hotels.

All this happened in about 1 minute.

After he lost the person from sight, the witness sat in his living
room for about 15 to 20 minutes before he went back to sleep.

DIARIO COMMENT: Here something else happened, that the witness did
not reveal to the local authorities, but well to the American
investigators. In our next publication DIARIO will reveal what else
the witness saw that eventful morning. The Polygraph test he took
proved that here too he was telling the truth!)

The witness woke up and went to his work at about 11: a.m. Then the
news about Natalee’s disappearance was on the radio and he found out
that there was a tourist teenager who did not make it back to her
hotel. He immediately remembered what he saw a few hours earlier

After the news became bigger, and they began to arrest the wrong
persons, the witness felt discouraged to come forward, and after he
saw that the young man Joran van der Sloot in the news, he recognized
him immediately as the person he saw walking past his home.

After he found out that the father of the man was a lawyer and
studying to become a judge, and that he was an intimate friend of a
high ranking police officer, he felt totally discouraged to come
forward with what he saw.

ON top of that, knowing that the Aruban judicial system is totally in
the hands of the Dutch, he forced himself to keep quiet. This lasted
for over 2 years, until the end of 2007, when he felt he had to tell
about what he saw, and so he came forward slowly, to explain what he
saw in front of his house, which is situated at about 500 meters from
the Dam of Monserat at Noord

He also got himself a lawyer, because the case was so big and he needed advice.

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar
test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the
level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test
discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of
them.

IN another article, DIARIO will show how Prosecutor Mos paid little
attention to this witness and on the contrary, tried to discredit him.
This makes you wonder: Is it true that they want to protect van der
Sloot cost what it may?

I had this saved no link ::MonkeyEek:

THE POND WITNESS - TIM MILLER - THE POLYGRAPH


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05

September 10, 2008

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


Search for Natalee Holloway:Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch … New Witness in Aruba, Discusions with Prosecutor Hans Mos & Polygraph Exams
 
Why does Aruba after all this time and bad PR still not want to cooperate and find Natalee Holloway?
September 12, 2008

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/

[Tamikosmom]

However ... Hans Mos claims that Tim Miller did not provide him with the polygraph results of the witness.

 

Jossy?  Hans Mo?  Tamikosmom will go with Jossy until otherwise informed by a credible source.

Janet

______

hotping
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 -
« Reply #809 on: January 06, 2009, 07:14:06 PM »

Press Anouncement

Ladies and gentlemen!

The Public Prosecutors Office Aruba and the Aruban Police Force would like to give you an updated summary about the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

<snippped>

In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutor’s Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction. There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

This witness has turned himself to Dave Holloway, as we have been told. He has given a new statement and has undergone a lie detector test. According to the summary of the lie detector test results (a full report, as promised to my Office by Tim Miller was never received) the witness was considered to be reliable. This Office never questioned the reliability of what the witness claimed to have seen. Yet, the value of his statement in the reconstruction of facts of that night is very limited. With his sole statement this case could never be solved.

<snipped>


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4344.msg614673#msg614673

[Tamikosmom]

Crazy morning.  Hubby and company from Quebec just left the house.  Hubby is dropping company at the BC Ferries terminal prior to going to work (same area).

I was prepared to make a full breakfast ... pancakes, bacon, scrambled eggs, coffee.  However ... apparently this couple feels that breakfast on the 2 1/2 hour ferry ride to Vancouver Island is all part of the experience.

Anyways ... all is now quiet.  All is right with Tamikosmom's world.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
8:00 AM PT

[Magnolia]

Crazy morning.  Hubby and company from Quebec just left the house.  Hubby is dropping company at the BC Ferries terminal prior to going to work (same area).

I was prepared to make a full breakfast ... pancakes, bacon, scrambled eggs, coffee.  However ... apparently this couple feels that breakfast on the 2 1/2 hour ferry ride to Vancouver Island is all part of the experience.

Anyways ... all is now quiet.  All is right with Tamikosmom's world.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
8:00 AM PT

Good Morning, Janet!

I have said for years that the best part of company is their tail lights.

Hope your Yorkshire Pudding was delicious.

[Anna]

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Blue Moon, good to see you have electricity but the ice storm is still in progress. 

I hope all in its path stay safe and warm but OK declared a state of emergency.

 

[always 1]

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Blue Moon, good to see you have electricity but the ice storm is still in progress. 

I hope all in its path stay safe and warm but OK declared a state of emergency.

 

Anna, are you in Oklahoma????  Me too!

[Tamikosmom]

Crazy morning.  Hubby and company from Quebec just left the house.  Hubby is dropping company at the BC Ferries terminal prior to going to work (same area).

I was prepared to make a full breakfast ... pancakes, bacon, scrambled eggs, coffee.  However ... apparently this couple feels that breakfast on the 2 1/2 hour ferry ride to Vancouver Island is all part of the experience.

Anyways ... all is now quiet.  All is right with Tamikosmom's world.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
8:00 AM PT

Good Morning, Janet!

I have said for years that the best part of company is their tail lights.

Hope your Yorkshire Pudding was delicious.

The roast beef dinner turned out great and was enjoyed by all ... especially hubby.  It seems the only time he gets fed really good is when we have company.

I was spared the 45 minute ride back and forth to Vancouver Internation to pick up company by claiming I had to get dinner on.  The minute hubby left ... I put the roast and veggies all in the same roasting pan and ... was back on the computer within 30 minutes.

 

I am baaaad.  Sooo baaaad.

Janet