Natalee Case Discussion #712 1/12 - 1/16/08

[private eye]

I think that Jossy led us out of the forest and did his part, at great risk to himself. Is Jossy completely clean? Probably not, but he is not ethically challenged, and if he did skirt some laws it was probably in the past and was totally unrelated to this case. But Aruba owes him a big apology because he tried to step up and lead a country he obviously cares very much for in the right direction, he tried to expose the illegal Dutch friends who were in a position to blackmail for instance Rudy Croes and the Arubian government into shutting up and cooperating with and allowing the cover up of the Dutch boy, and he apparently was clean enough that the local Dutch had no blackmail material on him. Jossy's path would have preserved the tourism business that the locals depend on for their income. He was protecting them as much as he was helping Beth. The two had similar goals in that the right thing solved both the locals and Beth's problems.

The MEP, the controlling party was founded by Betico Croes, the liberator of Aruba, and as his son, Rudy, had entirely too much influence with the locals for Jossy to win against the MEPs. But despite the great influence that Rudy had with the locals, and his dominance in the political arena too great for Jossy, he was too weak to handle the Dutch investigation due to his own criminal activities, unrelated to Natalee, of which the local Dutch boys were aware, as they control the key positions at the police, and the prosecutors office, and they had friends who were the judges. But the judges could only consider the case developed by the prosecutor and police, so in reality they had little to with which to work.

Maybe even at first Jossy was going to play the cover up as evidenced by his infamous tale that the FBI was chasing a car with Natalee in it, he soon realized that Beth was not going on, and he reversed strategy and became Beth's strongest supporter there. And for that he has my undying admiration, respect, and friendship, even though I will never meet him, and I sincerely wish him the best with his family's trouble and wish there was something I could do to help him. He stood tall and strong for Beth.

And I realize that this is speculation, and I apologize to Mr Mansur if I have it wrong. But I know I am not wrong for thanking him for supporting Beth and for wishing him the best. I also hope that he stays silent on this from here on out and concentrate on his and his family's future. They apparently need him.

Thank you PI.  Your post is definite food for thought.

Nevertheless ... it grieves me to think that there is not one person on that Island who is exposing those ... within the corrupt Aruban investigation ... within the Aruban government ... within the judiciary ... who are denying Natalee Holloway justice and ... forcing the the family into a nightmare that is neverending.

Jossy Mansur is the ONLY Aruban who is in a position to make a difference that has been there for the family since day one.  The family need him and ... justice for Natalee is counting on him.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++


BETH TWITTY
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, you know, I‘ll be forever grateful for Jossy Mansur, who is there. And he has been so instrumental. And he‘s just a hero to all of us. And, you know, he‘s my only hope on the island. And we‘ll be forever grateful to him.


DAVE HOLLOWAY
Dana Pretzer Show
September 8, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Jossy has been very helpful to try to find the truth, the fact he lives in Aruba and publishes a newspaper, they're attacking him because he's looking for-- fighting for-- the truth. That’s what a good journalist does--He's going to go after the people, regardless, and try to find the truth


STEVE HOLLOWAY
Scared Monkey - FP Comments
April 6, 2007
 
Comment #20 ... I think he is a good man looking for the truth. He will not let them push him around. This is his home and is probably sick of the corruption that happens every day on such a large scale on such a small island.
Comment by Steve Holloway | April 6, 2007, 1:02 pm


JUG TWITTY
Scared Monkey - FP Comments
December 5, 2005

Comment #6 ... THANK YOU JOSSY I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT BUT YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FOR US FROM THE BEGENNING AND THE PEOPLE OF ARUBA SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOU.
Comment by JUG TWITTY | December 5, 2006, 10:57 am

I honestly think I am close to understanding the dynamics of the cover up, but I realize that I could easily be way off target.

But I do feel that Mr. Mansur gave Beth all he could afford to give, and I feel that a man's first responsibility is to take care of his own family first, so I want to support him in that regard and make sure he knows how much his help was appreciated.

I know that many disagree with me, but Mos and Holland seems to have finally taken notice of the cover up, and with Joran's latest wine-y interview, I hope his infrastructure of support will implode on its own. Even if it doesn't, and I am wrong about Mos and Holland, I can't in good conscious want Mr. Mansur's family to suffer any more harm or take any more risks than he feels he can afford.I also want him to know that I am sure Beth understands his first obligation is to his family despite her desperately needing help still. Sometime it is best to be appreciative of what has been given instead of resentful that more wasn't given. I think professionally his newspaper will still provide unbiased coverage, and when he feels he can, I am sure he will step up again. His island needs his leadership, as does Beth, and he will lead when he can.

[kooolkatt]

Posted at BFN:

Good afternoon everybody! I just talked to John about 5 minutes ago. The boat is docked because the high speed wench is broken.  They have found some parts to fix it and will be working on that tonight. He said they will probably stay docked and go back out in the morning.

Thank you for bringing this over class. I know many monkeys have been waiting for word from the brave crew of the Persistence 

Good evening monkeys, does anyone know where I might be able to find some quotes regarding the drugging of Natalee's and other tourists drinks? I'm not so good at using the search feature yet 

[kooolkatt]

Uuugggh obviously I don't know how to use the quote feature either 

[private eye]

Mr. Mansur can only lead his country and help Beth from a position of strength. He will rest, handle his own affairs, and come out even stronger and be in a better position to help both parties. He stood like an old Oak tree defying the winds of a tornado, as his roots run deep in Aruba and his ethics are as strong as the oak branches the roots support. He is not going anywhere, lets wish him the our best, await his return, and trust his judgment.

[kooolkatt]

Posted at BFN:

Good afternoon everybody! I just talked to John about 5 minutes ago. The boat is docked because the high speed wench is broken.  They have found some parts to fix it and will be working on that tonight. He said they will probably stay docked and go back out in the morning.

Thank you for bringing this over class. I know many monkeys have been waiting for word from the brave crew of the Persistence 

Good evening monkeys, does anyone know where I might be able to find some quotes regarding the drugging of Natalee's and other tourists drinks? I'm not so good at using the search feature yet 

And that would be a BIG THANK YOU to Klass who has lots of class

[Tamikosmom]

I honestly think I am close to understanding the dynamics of the cover up, but I realize that I could easily be way off target.

But I do feel that Mr. Mansur gave Beth all he could afford to give, and I feel that a man's first responsibility is to take care of his own family first, so I want to support him in that regard and make sure he knows how much his help was appreciated.

I know that many disagree with me, but Mos and Holland seems to have finally taken notice of the cover up, and with Joran's latest wine-y interview, I hope his infrastructure of support will implode on its own. Even if it doesn't, and I am wrong about Mos and Holland, I can't in good conscious want Mr. Mansur's family to suffer any more harm or take any more risks than he feels he can afford.I also want him to know that I am sure Beth understands his first obligation is to his family despite her desperately needing help still. Sometime it is best to be appreciative of what has been given instead of resentful that more wasn't given. I think professionally his newspaper will still provide unbiased coverage, and when he feels he can, I am sure he will step up again. His island needs his leadership, as does Beth, and he will lead when he can.

PI ... I understand where you are coming from in regards to Jossy Mansur.  It just makes me very sad for the family ... the family's one and only advocate on that Island.

PI ... are you in a position to share with the forum why you have faith that Hans Mos and Holland will come through concerning justice for Natalee.

The statement from the prosecutor's office (Hans Mos) implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish are no longer suspects.  It also implies that the case would be reopened only if "new" evidence should surface.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++


Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
Tuesday, Dec 18, 2007 - 11:33 AM
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

<snipped>

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

[AZSunny]

Is Luis Mansuer Jossy's brother? 

[Tamikosmom]

Mr. Mansur can only lead his country and help Beth from a position of strength. He will rest, handle his own affairs, and come out even stronger and be in a better position to help both parties. He stood like an old Oak tree defying the winds of a tornado, as his roots run deep in Aruba and his ethics are as strong as the oak branches the roots support. He is not going anywhere, lets wish him the our best, await his return, and trust his judgment.

PI ... you articulate your position so well.

Thank you.

Janet

[klaasend]

Is Luis Mansuer Jossy's brother? 

Yes the Luis Mansur that is currently in jail is Jossy's brother.  From what I hear they aren't very close. 

[Tamikosmom]

Is Luis Mansuer Jossy's brother? 

Eduardo Mansur - Jossy's son
Eric Mansur - Eduardo's cousin - Jossy's nephew

______________________

Eduardo Mansur
October 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/10/natalee_hollowa_15.html

Dear Dan

I noticed in these blogs alot of people talking bad about my father Jossy Mansur. to begin with, i don't know who you are, and i don't care who you are. Your famous research about my family may have some things right but alot of bs. Yes two of my cousins were extradited to puerto rico but were never judged. This was all internal politics by the mep government. Then i read about the gardner being my employee? (never knew the guy until we investigated the rumor about the domino game in the jail with a kalpoe where a relative of ours is doing time for shooting a fire arm. a nephew a cousins son.. (are we responsible for his actions?) Then i read about my father not being able to go to the United States that we love and respect soo much. Well this is about a personal problem and descrimination with a U.S. Immigration official here in aruba by the last name of Tissdale. And she did all this fake accusations on my father. Contact me and i will explain to you.. Do you have any proof that my father or his sons are or have ever done anything illegal? Please show them. If not don't slander my father.

All we are tryning to do is to help, we have worked very hard on this case and it has nothing to do with revenge or vendetta etc. We just care. We are using our own resources to help on this case and want nothing in return much less a reward. Didn't your research show you how many long hours we worked on this case? Did it show you how many times we defend the United Stated through out the years in everything you do?. Did you know that we love america and americans here in Aruba and abroad?

If you knew my father you would realize what kind of person he is, he never even got a traffic violation ticket in his life. Much less all the things you said he is involved in. We wish we were as rich as you make people think we are.

But them again you have freedom of speech and you can say what you want.

I have been searching for natalee since june 3rd and do you know i have not seen my wife and kids since then?they are in south america going to school. no one has put more hours in this case than i. I searched all of aruba by foot mostly. I searched all the wells and mineshafts, i was at the land fill searching and diggin for 13 days mostly by myself, you would not stand it for 1 hour. and now i am searching the ocean, ON our own resources and want nothing in return.

By the way do you know my father is in the U.S.?anyway i could go on but i felt bad reading these things about my father and that is why i wrote this. we will keep working on this, God knows how much longer, but we want to get the persons responsible for this punished, because they deserve to be punished and not the entire Island. Arubans are good people and here we are in trouble because of 3 foreigners and a substitude judge who so far seems to be avove the law.

All of us Jossy's sons went to Military school and college in the United states.

Semper Fi.

Eduardo Mansur

Posted by: EDUARDO | Thursday, October 27, 2005 at 10:48 PM

______________________


http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355

In August 1994, the United States indicted cousins Eric and Alex Mansur along with 52 others allegedly involved in a massive drug money-laundering enterprise.

[Dayhiker]

Mr. Mansur can only lead his country and help Beth from a position of strength. He will rest, handle his own affairs, and come out even stronger and be in a better position to help both parties. He stood like an old Oak tree defying the winds of a tornado, as his roots run deep in Aruba and his ethics are as strong as the oak branches the roots support. He is not going anywhere, lets wish him the our best, await his return, and trust his judgment.

Hope I didn't sound harsh. I appreciate everything Jossy has done and definitely would not want him to put he or his family's life in danger. He has been a bastion of truth, the only we have seen from Aruba. You are correct in that there is some very complex goings on in Aruba and it is a third world country with all the dangers that come with it. Any country that allows drugs to be openly sold on the streets and beaches with full permission of law enforcement is dangerous.

[Dayhiker]

And that would be a BIG THANK YOU to Klass who has lots of class

She is a klassy lady, a real gem.

[private eye]

I honestly think I am close to understanding the dynamics of the cover up, but I realize that I could easily be way off target.

But I do feel that Mr. Mansur gave Beth all he could afford to give, and I feel that a man's first responsibility is to take care of his own family first, so I want to support him in that regard and make sure he knows how much his help was appreciated.

I know that many disagree with me, but Mos and Holland seems to have finally taken notice of the cover up, and with Joran's latest wine-y interview, I hope his infrastructure of support will implode on its own. Even if it doesn't, and I am wrong about Mos and Holland, I can't in good conscious want Mr. Mansur's family to suffer any more harm or take any more risks than he feels he can afford.I also want him to know that I am sure Beth understands his first obligation is to his family despite her desperately needing help still. Sometime it is best to be appreciative of what has been given instead of resentful that more wasn't given. I think professionally his newspaper will still provide unbiased coverage, and when he feels he can, I am sure he will step up again. His island needs his leadership, as does Beth, and he will lead when he can.

PI ... I understand where you are coming from in regards to Jossy Mansur.  It just makes me very sad for the family ... the family's one and only advocate on that Island.

PI ... are you in a position to share with the forum why you have faith that Hans Mos and Holland will come through concerning justice for Natalee.

The statement from the prosecutor's office (Hans Mos) implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish are no longer suspects.  It also implies that the case would be reopened only if "new" evidence should surface.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++


Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
Tuesday, Dec 18, 2007 - 11:33 AM
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

<snipped>

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

I hate to say why I feel that he is legit because some of the very proof I see is the exact act than angered so many of Beth's supporters and what her attorney scoffed at. And I understand that Beth is not convinced he is legit.

But I think his strategy or rearresting the boys had possibilities and was a legitimate tactic. It could have easily produced results, and after following basically a cleanup crew in the prosecutors office, there simply wasn't much evidence with which for him to work. Then he spoke out to his home country Holland complaining and revealing of the coverup to a certain degree. The proof I took as Wit speaking out defending himself, Rudy purposely being kept in the dark, and I suspect that some how his actions affected the wine--y interview. And Holland seems to be turning squarely against Joran based upon the translated articles.

True, Mos did not hit a home run, but since his arrival it seems that Joran's position has been rattled some what. Call it a gut feeling, karma, coincidence, or maybe it is the only horse available at the moment. My feeling isn't coming from anything connected to Beth or her supporters, and definitely not from inside information. It is mine and mine alone belief, unsupported, but strongly felt. Or maybe strongly hoped for. It is no more valid though than any belief that anyone else might have though.

[Buckeye]

Janet

I signed in to post that.  Thanks.

[Tamikosmom]

I honestly think I am close to understanding the dynamics of the cover up, but I realize that I could easily be way off target.

But I do feel that Mr. Mansur gave Beth all he could afford to give, and I feel that a man's first responsibility is to take care of his own family first, so I want to support him in that regard and make sure he knows how much his help was appreciated.

I know that many disagree with me, but Mos and Holland seems to have finally taken notice of the cover up, and with Joran's latest wine-y interview, I hope his infrastructure of support will implode on its own. Even if it doesn't, and I am wrong about Mos and Holland, I can't in good conscious want Mr. Mansur's family to suffer any more harm or take any more risks than he feels he can afford.I also want him to know that I am sure Beth understands his first obligation is to his family despite her desperately needing help still. Sometime it is best to be appreciative of what has been given instead of resentful that more wasn't given. I think professionally his newspaper will still provide unbiased coverage, and when he feels he can, I am sure he will step up again. His island needs his leadership, as does Beth, and he will lead when he can.

PI ... I understand where you are coming from in regards to Jossy Mansur.  It just makes me very sad for the family ... the family's one and only advocate on that Island.

PI ... are you in a position to share with the forum why you have faith that Hans Mos and Holland will come through concerning justice for Natalee.

The statement from the prosecutor's office (Hans Mos) implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish are no longer suspects.  It also implies that the case would be reopened only if "new" evidence should surface.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++


Natalee Holloway Case Dismissed
Tuesday, Dec 18, 2007 - 11:33 AM
By NBC 13 Staff
E-mail

From a press release by the Aruban Public Prosecutor’s Office:

<snipped>

http://www.nbc13.com/gulfcoastwest/vtm/news.apx.-content-articles-VTM-2007-12-18-0004.html

I hate to say why I feel that he is legit because some of the very proof I see is the exact act than angered so many of Beth's supporters and what her attorney scoffed at. And I understand that Beth is not convinced he is legit.

But I think his strategy or rearresting the boys had possibilities and was a legitimate tactic. It could have easily produced results, and after following basically a cleanup crew in the prosecutors office, there simply wasn't much evidence with which for him to work. Then he spoke out to his home country Holland complaining and revealing of the coverup to a certain degree. The proof I took as Wit speaking out defending himself, Rudy purposely being kept in the dark, and I suspect that some how his actions affected the wine--y interview. And Holland seems to be turning squarely against Joran based upon the translated articles.

True, Mos did not hit a home run, but since his arrival it seems that Joran's position has been rattled some what. Call it a gut feeling, karma, coincidence, or maybe it is the only horse available at the moment. My feeling isn't coming from anything connected to Beth or her supporters, and definitely not from inside information. It is mine and mine alone belief, unsupported, but strongly felt. Or maybe strongly hoped for. It is no more valid though than any belief that anyone else might have though.

Thank you for sharing PI.  I pray with all heart that you are right.  The family certainly needs somebody in Aruba who is in a position to make a difference ... somebody who  is fighting for justice on behalf of Natalee.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Janet

I signed in to post that.  Thanks.

Buckeye ... your are welcome.

I am searching for some info that Jossy posted on Easy's site regarding his roots in Aruba.  I will continue search but ... if a Monkey has has access to that info ... I would appreciate if they could post it.

Thank you.

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Uuugggh obviously I don't know how to use the quote feature either 

Search feature is tough because it requires a word/phrase to look for PLUS the person who posted it....it isn't easy.  It was easier on the old format for search....maybe someone will come to your rescue....I just was catching up and wanted to respond.

[Tamikosmom]

I found it!!


Wednesday, April 11, 2007

http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-record.html

For The Record:
 
Mike: Jossy, I received an email this morning asking me about something they thought they heard in a television interview. It has to do with you having Joran Van Der Sloot followed, before the Holloway incident. Do you have any memory of such a thing?

Jossy: That question is way off base since I never had Joran followed by anyone! I never mentioned anything of the sort in any interview. People many times give reign to their imaginations and come up with unbelievable theories and ideas that do not conform to the reality. My loyalties to Aruba are unquestionable, but my loyalty with the truth has priority over everything else. I do not have any agendas, hidden or public; I just do my job as Director of the DIARIO.

Mike: There has been misinformation floating around on the internet for a long time about your background. Would you mind giving us a brief biographical sketch?

Jossy: I was born in Aruba in 1934. My father came from Venezuela in the year 1901, together with my grandfather, who emigrated from Lebanon to Venezuela in or around 1894. The exact date has not been established. They came to Aruba hidden in a fruit boat, to put as much distance as possible between themselves and the political persecutions that were going on at that time. (I believe Cipriano Castro was then in power).

I was born in Aruba and attended school at St. Dominicus College, where I finished the sixth grade. I then went to Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, when I was 14, to attend high school at St. Stanislaus, of the Sacred Heart Brothers, where I graduated in 1951. I then went on to Mobile Alabama, to attend college at Spring Hill College, of the Jesuit order. I graduated in 1954. I came back to Aruba and then traveled to Venezuela to find employment. I was hired by the Mobile Oil Company and stayed with them for 9 years as Safety Supervisor. I worked for the company in Barinas, Anaco and Puerto Cabello. In 1967 I came back to Aruba and remained here until now.

When in Venezuela I used to contribute many articles (of a literary nature) to El Universal, and published quite a lot of material (short stories, essays, etc.) in the best magazines of the country (Bohemia, Elite, etc.)

I started to write for a paper called Nobo, published in Curacao, then started my own section of a paper (EXTRA) with a friend from Curacao. Then I decided to start DIARIO more than 25 years ago, and was able to make it the largest (by far!) of the papers circulating in Aruba. Today it has over 89% of the market exclusively.

I started to publish books in Papiamento, English and Spanish, and have so far published 56 of them, including 4 dictionaries, 4 novels published in Cali, Colombia, the History of Aruba, and other fiction and non-fiction books. I am considered to be the most prolific writer in the history of the Netherlands Antilles, not only because of the quantities published, but also because of the quality.

That, my friend, is a brief summary of my schooling and literary activities.

[private eye]

Janet

I signed in to post that.  Thanks.

Buckeye ... your are welcome.

I am searching for some info that Jossy posted on Easy's site regarding his roots in Aruba.  I will continue search but ... if a Monkey has has access to that info ... I would appreciate if they could post it.

Thank you.

Janet

I don't think he is from Aruba is he? But his home and business is there is what I mean, and at his age, his way of life is there.

[wreck]

I think Robots and me were the staunchest supporters of Mos and Holland -- only to be knocked to reality. No, I don't think there is any alterior motives to Mos' approach. If he sensed a "cover-up" -- all he had to do was SAY so. The public sentiment would have FORCED justice. I respect your optimism P.I. --- but an outcry from The Netherlands is only going to come fom Joran "hanging" himself like he did a few nights ago. My only hope is for Natalee to be found and brought home. There will never be justice from Aruba or The Netherlands.