Natalee Case Discussion #712 1/12 - 1/16/08

[Nut44x4]

I flipped this photo around so Val is standing the same way in the vid. still.
Val has a big nose. I think it is him.

[klaasend]

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

[NM]

Klaas, Still looks like Bendix to me. It's that hair cut and nose.


CBB a belated THANK YOU for my Vtine avatar!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Joran is indeed being punished for his acts, even while being free from a cell. His life is ever so slowly disintegrating right in front of Anita's eyes, as is the life of her family and each family member's individual life. Individually, and collectively.

Anita's soul is empty and weary from trying to cheat God so there is nothing available for her other children to help nurture their lives, there is nothing to bring color into the relationship of Anita and Paulus, joy into their home, hope for their future. Punishment is descending upon them and into them coloring their world a bleak gray. Without confession, and punishment by society, society will forever feel that Joran's debt is still current and owed, so interest will accrue, and thus no redemption and no ending date to their pain will be set. Joran's ability to be rehabilitated is being diminished as he ages and hardens due to the rejection he feels from all. Everybody has an innate need to be wanted and loved.

Deservedly, yes, but the pain and harm could be greatly diminished, hope and color could be restored to her other children's lives, rehabilitation could begin while there is a chance for Joran, and a future reestablished for Anita's family, if Anita will turn to God to find the strength and faith to do the right thing.

Anita, I don't know how you can bear to sit back and watch your family being destroyed one day at a time, realize that you and you alone control whether this process continues or not, and then decide to do nothing. Ignorant of the Lord and the Lord's ways, weak, lost soul, foolish, of little faith, impotent mother, and not caring all come to mind.

Praise the Lord that Beth has faith, Beth's Mom has faith, and they will free themselves and their family from there pain without your help. If you need proof, just look at Beth. Based upon your approach her loss has been immense compared to yours, yet she is healing, she has hope, her family has a future even though her daughter, Matt's sister, Ann's granddaughter has been taken away permanently from them in this life.

Your worst prospect is to temporarily have restricted access to your son, not nearly so severe, yet the pain you are going to inflict on your family to avoid this temporary restriction will inflict a far greater toll on you and your family than Beth's loss, and for no reason other than your ignorance of the Lord and selfishness. Your legacy to your family for generations to come. And it is apparent that you would rather satisfy your own selfish urges to have unrestricted access to Joran than to get Joran the help he needs and thus provide for him to have a future.

Your family is dependent on you and you alone to save them from this dark path they are traveling and that you have chosen for them.

PI ...  thank you.

My pray is that Anita somehow reads your heartfelt words.  Maybe ... just maybe ... she will comprehend that ... in time ... through truth ... through truth that can pierce the darkness ... lives ... relationships ... can be restored.

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

I was just thinking that the Sloots must be on an extended Christmas holiday...would think that Anita and the boys would be back to school....maybe they all escorted Joran back to his 'college'...and his adoring neighbors near his apartment. 

[NM]

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

I was just thinking that the Sloots must be on an extended Christmas holiday...would think that Anita and the boys would be back to school....maybe they all escorted Joran back to his 'college'...and his adoring neighbors near his apartment. 

Hey 2NJ,
You just reminded me of the reports from the neighbors unfortunate to live near jurin. They said jurin threw garden waste (manure) on a neighbor.

[crazybabyborg]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

[Nut44x4]

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

I was just thinking that the Sloots must be on an extended Christmas holiday...would think that Anita and the boys would be back to school....maybe they all escorted Joran back to his 'college'...and his adoring neighbors near his apartment. 

Didn't we hear he may have changed schools?? Or did I dream that, lol.
Perhaps if he did then they went to get him settled into his new school and find an apartment w/ new neighbors just like him so they won't worry 
Amsterdam, I hear.

[memphis]

Just posted by Victor (Lazlo) at Scrux:

Not even a month ago the OM in Aruba "closed" the Natalee Holloway case.
The American student has been missing since May 2005.

Joran van der Sloot has been a prime suspect in this case together with two of his friends.

The decision to make it a sepot was followed due to a lack of new concrete evidence, according to head officer Hans Mos during a press conference.

(clip of Hans Mos) "That fact and the fact that the all three decided to take their right to remain silent during their detention that together has brought us to the conclusion that there simply was not enough juridical evidence to charge and prosecute them".
-end of clip-

Joran van der Sloot has been the prime suspect since 2005 in the Holloway case, he after all was the one that saw her last, and gave statements that were untrue. Later Joran admitted that he had lied.
In November he was arrested again. During his detention that lasted for two weeks Joran again took his right to remain silent.

Last night, Joran together with his parents Joran one more time gave an interview to Pauw and Witteman. At the table also crime reporter Peter de Vries, who has never made it a secret to doubt Joran's statements.

When the broadcasting had ended, the following happened:

-clip of Joran throwing wine in de Vries's face is shown-

De Vries: I think he proved himself a bad service,
Witteman: This incident is not going to contribute to him gaining any much trust.

-clip-
de Vries asking: "Tell me now how did you got home that night".
Joran: I was brought home by D.. Satish the brother of Deepak
"de Vries: But he denies that, he says I did not bring him home at all.
Joran: Yes
de Vries: and first you have stated that Deepak have brought you home, not Satish
Joran: Mr de Vries, I don't know if you...
de Vries: Why would they lie about that? [/b] -end of clip-

Peter Plasman: I found the performance of the family van der Sloot really dramatic (as in not good).
Intervieuwer: Why?
Plasman: Because these people with this story can never win over the battle of the public opinion.

Joran van der Sloot yesterday had come with his parents to the talkshow P&W now that he is not going to be prosecuted about Natalee Holloway, right after the program things get out of hand.

-clip- :
Joran: If there ever will be clearity about what happened, and it turns out you are wrong, will you apologize, are you man enough to do that?
De Vries: What do you think?
Joran: No.
De Vries: No?
Joran nods his head that no he thinks no.
Anita starts to laugh real hard, audience is mumbling.
The interviewer then says: What a beautiful ending of such a ...!
Anita van der Sloot: Nice ending (laughing)
-end of clip-

Witteman: Everybody was shaking hands, any way, Jeroen and I were shaking hands with all our guests, and Joran stood up and I got the impression that Joran was going to shake hands with Peter.

Peter de Vries: After the broadcasting, my sender was taken of and I arrange my clothes, I was looking down, at that moment Joran had stood up and I myself had not seen that, and shortly thereafter I got an amount of wine in my face that he had thrown.
There was a full glass of wine on the table, and he had grabbed that and threw it in my face. And because I did not see that coming I got the wine in my eyes, and of course because there was alcohol in it, that itched.

-clip-
De Vries is standing with his hands for his eyes, his wife next to him and Jeroen Pauw says he should use some water for his eyes.
Anita with a sad voice: Why do you do that now, come on now, ohhh!
Wife of de Vries towards Anita: Now you have done such a great job raising that, yes, very well raised indeed. -end of clip-

Witteman: After the broadcasting he said he was so agitated during the broadcasting because he had to explain why he had lied again and again, and he had then felt he could do this, now I have the chance, and then he did this.

de Vries: He did this out of a form of frustration, agitation. I have later talked with him, and he then apologized, and he then said that already during the broadcasting he had wanted to insult me, but that during the broadcasting he had been able to held back, but then then at the end, it came out of him, and before he knew/realised it himself he had thrown wine in my face.

-clip-
May 2005, the American Natalee Holloway is with her class on Aruba vacationing, after a night of going out she takes of with some guys, they end up at the beach, in the end she is together with Joran van der Sloot, but ever since there is no trace of Natalee.
Joran van der Sloot is a suspect and is interrogated over and over again, but last month the Aruban judge let go of the case.
-end of clip-

In the interview last night he was attacked because in the case he had taken his right to remain silent.

-clip-
de Vries: The fact that also now, the last time he was arrested he refused to answer any single question during all that time, I find that very strange, and I wonder if this is something his father agrees with, as being a man who attempted to become a judge himself. That your son, In such a crucial case in which a girl has went missing, in which the mother is desperate about the faith of her daughter, that you then keep your mouth shut, while the goal of the investigation is to obtain clearity. -end of clip-

Interviewer: Why is it a good idea at times to take your right to remain silent?
Peter Plasman: Because if you know the prosecution does not have enough against me and you then remain silent, then there cannot come anything upon that, at least not from me. If justice does not have enough and you are questioned and give answers, you take the risk of making mistakes -regardless if you are innocent or guilty, also innocent people make mistakes- that can be interpreted wrongly, and look we now have contradicting statements, and additional incriminating material.

-clip-
Joran: And I have told everything, and I also feel, why would have have to give the police 20 statements, the only thing they want is to find differences in that.
-end of clip-

Interviewer: To take your right to remain silent in many cases is a normal strategy.
De Vries: Well I do not feel this a normal strategy, we are here not dealing with a career criminal of a drugs case, these usually standardly get the advise of their lawyers to take their right to remain silent.
We are here dealing with a guy who last saw a girl, so please give me one reason why you would not tell your story.

-clip-
Joran: I no longer have faith in the OM in Aruba, they are not after truthfinding in this case, they just want to hang someone. Just for their own ego's.
Witteman: Also when the person is innocent?
Joran: Yes also when the person is innocent I am convinced of that.
de Vries: I find it kind of strange you say that you have no trust in the OM, while you are the one who have continued to lie.
Joran: Yes I have lied, I admit that, but there are reasons for that, and those reasons you know also.
de Vries: I would like to know these reasons, to lie about something you did, while you have nothing to hide. Why would you have to lie then, please explain. -end of clip-

Plasman: This could not go right. The questions of Peter de Vries could have been predicted in advance, it were very legitimate questions. Questions like, why remain silent if you have nothing to hide, you cannot explain that yourself, if you want to explain that you will have to let a professional do that.
Plus all the inside information that was given, especially by the father, I found the role of father especially saddening (as in worse of all) .Well, they just never should have done this (going on the show). -clip- Anita: Now I am his mother, I love him very much, I am convinced he would not harm a girl.
These initial emotions for me are also important to notice at him, because I did actually had doubts about him for a while.
I have thought, damn, could an accident have happened, could something have happened, does he not want to tell? -end of clip-

Plasman: If you go to a television broadcasting, and you know in advance that the mother is going to say that she has doubted her son, then that in itself is a reason not to go.
Interviewer: So this is not so smart
Plasman: No no no
Plasman: Especially the father should have known what questions would come up, and how the mother would react upon the questions. And if he knows that if there is going to be a question did you ever doubt him and that she is going to answer yes, he should have decided not to go there. 
-clip-
Witteman: You were a stand in judge
Paulus: Yes
Witteman: Imagine Joran had told you, dad I did something terrible, what would you have done?
Paulus: I would have gone with him to him to the OM.
Witteman: Did you had a talk about this?
Anita: Between us as parents? Yes, yes.
Witteman: And you agreed with that?
Anita: Yes I agreed with that fully.
Witteman: You would then have brought in your own son?
Anita: Yes
Joran: And I can confirm that also.
-end of clip-

Plasman: What I found dramatically to hear from the parents was that they said, if he had told them he had something to do with it, that they would have gone to the police, since that means as parents you are cutting of your role as a parent to your son, you then know going to your parents with your problems, asking advise, telling what happened means jail, the parents taking over the role of police officers, incredible for parents.

clip-
-Wine incident is shown again-

de Vries: I can imagine it in many ways and do not make a big deal out of this. I mean if this is the worse you have to meet in your career as a crime reporter, then I have no reason to complain.

Witteman: By a larger public I think he has become more solid in the chair of a supsect, but we will have to wait for the body of Natalee Holloway to know what really has happened.

http://www.novatv.nl/novaplayer/player169.html?bw=bb&player=wmp&id=hpe-1-0&x=11&y=6#

Wow. There's so much to be gleened from that interview. It tells me that Joran was never really pushed in interrogations. He has no pat answers even now as to why he lied. Anita, his own Mother had doubts about what he did. Who knows him better than his mother? If she could fathom him guilty, who are we to question his capability for participation in a crime? Anita does react to the wine throwing, and she directs it as an admonishment at Joran. It's weak and sad, and probably typical of the lack of grit her parenting skills have, but her comments aren't in the nature of, "Oh, Goody, DeVries got what was coming to him." She does grasp that Joran has done something wrong and she does direct her comments at him. She may be thinking it hurts the family's position and is not concerned at all for DeVries, but she does grasp Joran has done something wrong. Flame me if you want, but I think, at that moment, that Anita's reaction was recognition of both the harm done to Joran's image and to the action DeVries was victim of.

Joran basically says that he remained silent due to a well thought out strategy to assure his release. It's a legal strategy with total disregard to what happened to Natalee, but DeVries won't let his answers go without holding Joran's answers up to a moral standard. Joran consistantly falls short of the mark on those basis and his buttons are pushed over and over. Moral standards are a real pesky thing to Joran, and he certainly did not expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf! After all, he knows the line that suggest they should be extended to himself as victim of ALE and the Holloways........Taco refined that argument and Greta bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it served him extremely well. Greta announced to the world that she believed him, and it worked like a charm in a public forum there!

This is a picture of a sociopath. This is a picture of Natalee Holloway's killer.

   

[dennisintn]

[
[/quote]

Wow. There's so much to be gleened from that interview. It tells me that Joran was never really pushed in interrogations. He has no pat answers even now as to why he lied. Anita, his own Mother had doubts about what he did. Who knows him better than his mother? If she could fathom him guilty, who are we to question his capability for participation in a crime? Anita does react to the wine throwing, and she directs it as an admonishment at Joran. It's weak and sad, and probably typical of the lack of grit her parenting skills have, but her comments aren't in the nature of, "Oh, Goody, DeVries got what was coming to him." She does grasp that Joran has done something wrong and she does direct her comments at him. She may be thinking it hurts the family's position and is not concerned at all for DeVries, but she does grasp Joran has done something wrong. Flame me if you want, but I think, at that moment, that Anita's reaction was recognition of both the harm done to Joran's image and to the action DeVries was victim of.

Joran basically says that he remained silent due to a well thought out strategy to assure his release. It's a legal strategy with total disregard to what happened to Natalee, but DeVries won't let his answers go without holding Joran's answers up to a moral standard. Joran consistantly falls short of the mark on those basis and his buttons are pushed over and over. Moral standards are a real pesky thing to Joran, and he certainly did not expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf! After all, he knows the line that suggest they should be extended to himself as victim of ALE and the Holloways........Taco refined that argument and Greta bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it served him extremely well. Greta announced to the world that she believed him, and it worked like a charm in a public forum there!

This is a picture of a sociopath. This is a picture of Natalee Holloway's killer.
[/quote]

   
[/quote]
well, memphis, we'll get broiled together like a shiskabob if there's any flaming going happen, because i agree with you l00%.  i really think most monkeys here will agree with you too.
dennisintn

[2NJSons_Mom]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

I posted earlier this morning that it was no longer there...I got a message that it was removed by the owner or producer...I forget the term they used. 

[klaasend]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

There's a message at the top:

This video has been removed by the user.

[Peaches]

I am a little bit amazed and pleasantly surprised at how
much media attention Joran's wine throwing incident has
attracted.  All of the major networks have reported
the story.  Nobody stops and asks: "who is Joran vander Sloot?"
I know that we, as Monkeys, are all concerned with Natalee's disappearance,
but this just proves that the story has not diminished in the least.
People everywhere are still waiting for answers in this case,
and the majority know where the answers lie. ARUBA and the SLOOTS.

As of 1:21 EST, this clip has been viewed on You Tube 282,425. times. 

By the end of the day, everyone and their brother will have observed that the delicious sporter has no manners and a bad temper.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

I was just thinking that the Sloots must be on an extended Christmas holiday...would think that Anita and the boys would be back to school....maybe they all escorted Joran back to his 'college'...and his adoring neighbors near his apartment. 

Didn't we hear he may have changed schools?? Or did I dream that, lol.
Perhaps if he did then they went to get him settled into his new school and find an apartment w/ new neighbors just like him so they won't worry 
Amsterdam, I hear.

You may be correct...preferably neighbors who can dodge things being thrown at them.

[private eye]

Isn't there another kid standing by him?

In the TV studio photo, I believe that's an adult standing next to what looks like Valentijn.  Remember Joran and Valentijn are pretty tall.

I think it looks like Joran's Holland 'buddy'>>>>

Jorans younger brother is a lot nicer looking than Joran for sure

[dennisintn]

I am a little bit amazed and pleasantly surprised at how
much media attention Joran's wine throwing incident has
attracted.  All of the major networks have reported
the story.  Nobody stops and asks: "who is Joran vander Sloot?"
I know that we, as Monkeys, are all concerned with Natalee's disappearance,
but this just proves that the story has not diminished in the least.
People everywhere are still waiting for answers in this case,
and the majority know where the answers lie. ARUBA and the SLOOTS.

As of 1:21 EST, this clip has been viewed on You Tube 282,425. times. 

By the end of the day, everyone and their brother will have observed that the delicious sporter has no manners and a bad temper.   
i've seen this incident and tape reported on all the networks and a bunch of tv stations and i've yet to see anyone express any surprise that he would have done something like this, or that it's an example of anything but what they all ready knew he was capable of.  any surprise was that he was unlucky and got caught in the act this time.
dennisintn

[crazybabyborg]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

There's a message at the top:

This video has been removed by the user.

Thanks, Klaas and 2nj! I hate it because it was really interesting to watch Joran's facial expressions and be able to know exactly what he was saying at the same time. It showed his question to DeVries about apologizing if he were exhonerated, and the laugh. Joran was furious, and DeVries was really intent. You could hear Anita saying, OH.......NO.........NO at Joran and you saw exactly what DeVries wife was saying to Anita in real time. Hopefully, somebody will re post it.

[Nut44x4]

Good catch NUT - could be:

Thanks...that may not be Val, but there is no denying that other guy is Jorans Bud.

[private eye]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

There's a message at the top:

This video has been removed by the user.

sounds like the user was threatened by a lawyer to me

[crazybabyborg]

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

There's a message at the top:

This video has been removed by the user.

sounds like the user was threatened by a lawyer to me

He's a "media director" according to his profile on this page:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=tomroes

Should have added that he's from the Netherlands.