Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 - 1/27/09

[Anna]

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Blue Moon, good to see you have electricity but the ice storm is still in progress. 

I hope all in its path stay safe and warm but OK declared a state of emergency.

 

Anna, are you in Oklahoma????  Me too!

No, Always 1, I am in Alabama.

Just a worrier!

[Anna]

Well, I thought the FBI was going to send the polygraph results to the NFI who would in turn send it to Hans Mos.

Where did I get such an idea, I wonder.


 

[klaasend]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

[jen3560]

Well, I thought the FBI was going to send the polygraph results to the NFI who would in turn send it to Hans Mos.

Where did I get such an idea, I wonder.


 

That was actually in an article from Diario that I ran across and posted here the other day.

That is precisely what the article said - from the FBI, to the NFI, and then to Aruba.  Tim Miller wasn't in that loop - according to Diario.

[jen3560]

klaas - I believe it was sent by lala's to someone else - who then passed it on.

I was also told (via telephone) the same thing - that Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

[Poochy]

So CAPS is 2 different people?

two different people use that nic we believe.

I agree, by site meter and grammar used.

Question, if I am logging into SM from two different laptops, daytime from my work laptop and different location, and then sometimes if I work VO logging in also daytime from my home laptop, won't I have 2 different IP addys?

But I am not two people, only one.

Laptops are mobile. They can travel about Aruba and connect to anybody's unsecure wireless router....

Just a thought..

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - think back to last March and April when we were working with Caps and the pond.  None of us were thinking about the cage because we were satisfied with the FBI report that fabric found didn't match Natalee's DNA.  We had naturally trusted that we had been given the accurate information from Persistence and we were all looking forward to the time when they would return to study the remaining sites that they had identified.  There was really no need for a diversion because we had placed our complete trust in the Persistence venture.  In March and April when we were working on Simian/Merian Ernest, we were focused on Daury and the arrest of Duary Rodriguez that we wouldn't have even known about had Caps not told us about it from news in Aruba.  We were all thinking about Patrick's video with Urine's confession, and we were trying to decypher the cryptic codetalker messages.  Persistence was out of our minds until they had enough money for a return trip.  The Persistence diversion came from Persistence itself, not from Caps. 

SS ... you are correct.  I was suspicious that CAPS was a troll from the getgo ... a troll who was attempting to distract Monkeys from persuing what was known about the coverup.  Aside from his deception regarding his grasp of the English language, cryptic messages, misinformation, changing theories ...

1.  CAPS lacked knowledge regarding well-known aspects of the case.  Monkeys had to fill him in.

2.  CAPS lacked knowledge regarding the names of family members.  Monkeys had to fill him in.

3.  CAPS upheld Dave Holloway and Julie Renfro while undermining Jug and Beth.

However ... I never made the Persistence connection.

I put two and two together when Kyle Kingman submitted the following posts to the SM Forum.  His January post made me very uncomfortable but ... his March post and ... Private Eye's responses cause a light to go on in my head in regards to a CAPS connection and ... it has never dimmed.

The revelation of Kyle Kingman's posts submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' site was such a relief.  My suspicions were confirmed when the CAPS/Silvetti connection was revealed.

Janet

++++++

OCEAN EXPLORATION

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help. They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning. Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
 Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

BUMPED

[klaasend]

klaas - I believe it was sent by lala's to someone else - who then passed it on.

I was also told (via telephone) the same thing - that Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

Thanks Jen!  In this particular case Kermit's post implies she (Kermit) got the email directly from Lala's and I just wanted to clarify. 

[klaasend]

So CAPS is 2 different people?

two different people use that nic we believe.

I agree, by site meter and grammar used.

Question, if I am logging into SM from two different laptops, daytime from my work laptop and different location, and then sometimes if I work VO logging in also daytime from my home laptop, won't I have 2 different IP addys?

But I am not two people, only one.

Laptops are mobile. They can travel about Aruba and connect to anybody's unsecure wireless router....

Just a thought..

Poochy - I agree you cannot go by the IP or location alone.  The person could also be using a proxy.  Grammer and posting/writing style are far more telling.

[Tamikosmom]

klaas - I believe it was sent by lala's to someone else - who then passed it on.

I was also told (via telephone) the same thing - that Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

It was rumored from the getgo that the Persistence undertaking was two-fold.  I do not have a problem with this other than the two-fold aspect of the undertaking was not shared.  It was denied when confronted.  Donors to the undertaking did not have a clue that they were supporting an oil mapping venture in the hopes that Natalee Hollway's remains could be located.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGSMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS - REFUGEE UNLIMITED

klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #702 12/7/2007
« Reply #281 on: December 07, 2007, 04:58:53 PM »

Quote from: jenna (RU)

... I believe that you are doing geophysical surveys for a commercial purpose. Morally, you must be justifying to yourself that Dave can use this for publicity purposes because you just by some fluke may possibly find the body of Natalee. I find your deception disgusting because certain people are using this as a fundraiser ...

Quote from: oceanexploration (RU)

... This search is funded by generosity and driven only by the desire to bring closure to the family ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.280

[jen3560]

klaas - I believe it was sent by lala's to someone else - who then passed it on.

I was also told (via telephone) the same thing - that Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

Thanks Jen!  In this particular case Kermit's post implies she (Kermit) got the email directly from Lala's and I just wanted to clarify. 

YW klaas!

[Blue Moon]

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Blue Moon, good to see you have electricity but the ice storm is still in progress. 

I hope all in its path stay safe and warm but OK declared a state of emergency.

 

I am at work.  Our electricity just went off and is back on.  I don't know how it is at home yet.  Over 1" ice and trees are breaking and falling.  We are getting a letup in the freezing rain right now but it will move back in late this afternoon with more freezing rain, sleet and then a couple inches of snow.  Tomorrow will be the worst travel yet.  It is bad but does look like a winter wonderland.

[Tamikosmom]

Well, I thought the FBI was going to send the polygraph results to the NFI who would in turn send it to Hans Mos.

Where did I get such an idea, I wonder.


 

That was actually in an article from Diario that I ran across and posted here the other day.

That is precisely what the article said - from the FBI, to the NFI, and then to Aruba.  Tim Miller wasn't in that loop - according to Diario.

jen ... could you please repost that article.  In September, 2008 ... Tim Miller claimed the contrary.

 

Thanks

Janet

+++++++


THE POND WITNESS - TIM MILLER - THE POLYGRAPH


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Exclusive … Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch in Aruba to meet With ALE/Prosecutor … New Witness That Puts Joran & Paulus Van der Sloot Near Ponds on 5/30/05
September 10, 2008

We just recieved a call from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch. Tim is presently in Aruba and planning to meet with the Aruban prosecutor and the ALE. It appears that there is a new witness that has come forward that has placed Joran Van der Sloot in wet and muddy clothing out at 4:00am on 5/30/05. The 48 year old Aruban witness also places Paulus Van der Sloot at the scene picking up Joran in a red jeep.

Why is this witness potentially credible? The Aruban passed two polygraph tests in Houston, TX on August 5, 2008. The tests were performed by John Swartz of John Swartz & Associates, International Polygraph Examiners. The 48 year old Aruba, name withheld for obvious reasons, went to police early on in the investigation; however, was not taken seriously.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/


Search for Natalee Holloway:Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch … New Witness in Aruba, Discusions with Prosecutor Hans Mos & Polygraph Exams
Why does Aruba after all this time and bad PR still not want to cooperate and find Natalee Holloway?
September 12, 2008

Tim Miller met with Aruban Prosecutor Hans Mos to discuss and show Mos in person the results of the polygraph exams conducted in Houston, TX.  Miller discussed with Mos the new witness who had come forward and the fact that the 48 year old witness had passed two polygraph exams. However, Hans Mos was quick to point out to Tim Miller that polygraph tests are not looked upon favorably or have much credibility in Aruba.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/12/search-for-natalee-hollowaytim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-new-witness-in-aruba-discusions-with-proecutor-hans-mos-polygraph-exams/

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning, Monkeys!

Blue Moon, good to see you have electricity but the ice storm is still in progress. 

I hope all in its path stay safe and warm but OK declared a state of emergency.

 

I am at work.  Our electricity just went off and is back on.  I don't know how it is at home yet.  Over 1" ice and trees are breaking and falling.  We are getting a letup in the freezing rain right now but it will move back in late this afternoon with more freezing rain, sleet and then a couple inches of snow.  Tomorrow will be the worst travel yet.  It is bad but does look like a winter wonderland.

 

... and there is the myth that the weather is sooo cold in Canada that we live in igloos.

 

Janet

[ldstlou]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

[Artcolley]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

And just exactly WHAT point was Lalas trying to PROVE?

[SS]

About a year ago, I unknowingly included the name of a former SM member in one of my posts.  Below is the response that I received.  It seems that the SM Forum rules have changed.


Quote from: klaasend on March 22, 2008, 10:57:12 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

[Keepthefaith]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

And just exactly WHAT point was Lalas trying to PROVE?

When will Kyle,Caps,as well as anyone else speak for themselves?

[Artcolley]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

And just exactly WHAT point was Lalas trying to PROVE?

When will Kyle,Caps,as well as anyone else speak for themselves?

I would guess never. They have their "useful flunkies" for that

[Tamikosmom]

oceanexploration
I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.660



Sat Nov 22, 2008
Here is a snippet from an email I rec'd from Lalas.

I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer.



Isdtlou
So now you're trying to tell us that Jug Twitty lied to lalasmom or was it lalasmom lying to her friends?

Kermit - can you clarify please.  Did you recieve an email from Lala's or was it sent to someone else?  TIA

We are told this is from an email, and it explains what Jug said to someone else about John Silvetti and what Jug knew:


"I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.

Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

And just exactly WHAT point was Lalas trying to PROVE?

When will Kyle,Caps,as well as anyone else speak for themselves?

They have ... loud and clear.

Good Morning Keepthefaith

It is snowing again in the Valley.  What is it like in Seattle?  The snow falling is a breathtaking view from our living room window.  All the dirty old snow that had not melted is now covered with fresh stuff.  Nevertheless ... I have had it with snow.

 

Janet