Haleigh Marie Cummings #17 6/26/09 - 8/6/09

[islandmonkey]

IM Thank you for posting the post of CVZ!!

Yes IM, Thank you , I had no idea that is why you were saying profilers state she is dead. I just do not see in there where he states she is.

Searching~I never said they came right out and stated she is dead, what I said was Misty and Ron's stories (plural) do not add up, and if you read one of CVZ's comments he talks about people living vicariously thru these cases hoping for a good outcome and to solve them....well, here is the comment:

Even though you get a feeling after years of working these cases, you still know that you need to develop proof beyond a reasonable doubt or all you have is that feeling, one that does not convict, though the media does an interest job in the court of public opinion. Many people live vicariously through such cases, hoping beyond hope at times that they can somehow help solve the case and bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.

AND, LE was using Cadaver dogs (usually known to be used to search for Cadavers???)

[islandmonkey]

What sets me off on this one is when the police arrived, Ronald Cummings had a bleeding hand. He says he hit the back door, he was so upset. So they took DNA at the scene from his hand. Those police didn't have a clue how to do it. His hand should have been bagged and he should have been escorted right to a hospital. The back door ? It was taken away weeks later after everyone and their dog and the media dogs had their hands on the damn door.
That's my issue with this investigation right from the get go.
Ron and Misty should have been separated even if they had to hold them for questioning in separate cells.  Right from that night.

Right there with you Kat Gram.  I worry about the way DNA was taken.  The door bothers me.  But mostly, I was screaming at the top of my lungs that Misty and Ronald should have been separated immediately.  There was no way to hold them for any period of time though, and apparently you can get out of jail damn near for free in Putnam county, no matter what you do!

ITA about seperating them, the DNA, the Door and getting a free pass in the Putnam County jail for almost anythi ::MonkeyNoNo::g.

[cookie]

Heart...that was very interesting with the pictures of folks who have lived in that area for years and years! did you notice also the Griffis's name?   no wonder some of these folks seem to be related in some way...

[Searching]

IM Thank you for posting the post of CVZ!!

Yes IM, Thank you , I had no idea that is why you were saying profilers state she is dead. I just do not see in there where he states she is.

Searching~I never said they came right out and stated she is dead, what I said was Misty and Ron's stories (plural) do not add up, and if you read one of CVZ's comments he talks about people living vicariously thru these cases hoping for a good outcome and to solve them....well, here is the comment:

Even though you get a feeling after years of working these cases, you still know that you need to develop proof beyond a reasonable doubt or all you have is that feeling, one that does not convict, though the media does an interest job in the court of public opinion. Many people live vicariously through such cases, hoping beyond hope at times that they can somehow help solve the case and bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.

AND, LE was using Cadaver dogs (usually known to be used to search for Cadavers???)

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

[Thunder Bunny]

IM, in your post above, do you believe the author is talking about people who insert themselves into a case or the actual players?  I've read and reread his article, which is very very well written, and out of his possible scenarios that he has developed, I do not find him to say she's gone.  The scenarios are not great, no.  But he also does not mention anything about a family abduction.  (Personally, if it were anyone in the family, I do not think it had anything to do with back child support, but for different reasons on a more personal level.) I wonder what he thinks now, looking back at the last few months and after hearing what the police keep repeating.  And I would love to be able to hear what the current  FBI profiler is saying about the case to LE.  Would have been NICE to hear that, or anything at all about this case, yes Monkeys????

I think a disservice has been done by keeping such a tight lid on things.  A LITTLE information might have helped crack this case by now, because I personally believe that once a small bit of info comes out in the media, players realize and whoever else knows realizes that they are GOING TO GET CAUGHT.  Might have helped some people come forward with any information by now.

[islandmonkey]

IM Thank you for posting the post of CVZ!!

Yes IM, Thank you , I had no idea that is why you were saying profilers state she is dead. I just do not see in there where he states she is.

Searching~I never said they came right out and stated she is dead, what I said was Misty and Ron's stories (plural) do not add up, and if you read one of CVZ's comments he talks about people living vicariously thru these cases hoping for a good outcome and to solve them....well, here is the comment:

Even though you get a feeling after years of working these cases, you still know that you need to develop proof beyond a reasonable doubt or all you have is that feeling, one that does not convict, though the media does an interest job in the court of public opinion. Many people live vicariously through such cases, hoping beyond hope at times that they can somehow help solve the case and bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.

AND, LE was using Cadaver dogs (usually known to be used to search for Cadavers???)

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

AGAIN~I have never insisted that she is not alive......I personally don't think she is due to many factors (many of which Blumonkey laid out in an earlier post) I think something happened to her in that trailer and the 911 call was staged, I used the facts that there are a litany of inconsistancies with Ron and Misty's account of what happened, they do not add up and they haven't been ruled out as suspects. In fact, Ron marries the main hindrance into the investigation. I was pointing out that the profilers concur that something stinks regarding their stories and they don't make sense. I'd LOVE to be wrong, but won't apologize for what I feel, especially considering the circumstances surrounding this case.

bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.

It's my opinion that the above statement from CVZ leads me to believe that it WONT be a good outcome, you are free to read into that what you wish, add to that all his other statements regarding Ron and Misty and it doesn't sound good.

[Searching]

Snipped

In regards to looking for these precious children, IIRC Tim Miller was looking in the woods thru heavy brush, and swamps..........I guess I just trust his instincts as to what he is looking for determined by WHERE he is looking.

I trust TM and know that he left after 2 days searching and stated this is not what it seems (not verbatim) Therefore, I believe TM knew he would not find her in those woods.

It is disturbing how so many are insisting she is dead with no evidence pointing to that fact. I saw on another forum, a missing 8 yr old boy who's mother has a history of abuse inflicting injury on a child, yet they are not willing to say he is dead,but are willing to say Haleigh is, I just do not understand the insistance that she is.   

I read Tim was asked to leave by LE I'll find the link if you want.also, if he did say things are not as they seem-there are MANY ways to interpret that statement IMO, especially after the Caylee ANthony case and the lack of cooperation, the same type of lack of cooperation that Misty has showm per LE.

I haven't insisted she's dead, I pray she is alive-but I don't believe she is based on the facts and length of time she has been missing, and the professional profilers...........I'd love to be wrong and hope I am, but statistically the odds are not good.

What facts might those be? There has been no evidence she is not alive and LE has stated they believe she is, so what FACTS are you going by to determine she is dead? Children have went missing for years and been found alive as adults.

The fact that she went missing from the care of her father/Misty, their numerous inconsistent statements, if you want me to list them I can (not today as I have an appt in 20 minutes), nut they don't add up.......Ron said he knew something was wrong because when he pulled up Misty was awake and at the door and she was usually aleep.......did he forget she had called him several times???? The fact there has been NO sighting of Haleigh. The fact that Ron and Misty decided to get married so soon as if  they are ready to move on with life. He and Misty constantly referred to her in past tense. Those are facts to me and facts that don't add up, but let me leave you with not my perception but the perception of criminal profilers, as they are the experts:

CLint Van Zandt:

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it
 
Sheriff's investigators, Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials, FBI Agents, criminal profilers and others are involved in a race against the clock to find missing Haleigh Cummings and, unfortunately, it is the clock and not the good guys that are winning the race. We can only hope for a positive conclusion to this case, but again, we know the odds are against this.
 
Cat,
I've seen spys and murderers pass polygraphs and seemingly innocent people come up deceptive (see my past msnbc.com article "Do Lie Detectors Lie?" at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7992482/, and since we have the father's characterization of the two of them "passing," this without law enforcement confirmation, I'm not ready to give them a pass on this case, especially with the circumstances as they currently appear. While the father's behavior appears crude but otherwise appropriate, many question his girlfriend's affect, or lack thereof. While, as my article suggests, there are a number of scenarios to explain what happen to the little girl, the two adults in the home still have explaining to do.
Best,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Jodi,
I fully believe that the investigators are continuing to look at the father and the teenager.
Best,
CVZ
Diane-914336
It is a shame that another young child is missing. The entire family on both sides appear to be uneducated and very poor. Makes you wonder how they afford the cigarettes they are puffing away on. Sorry, some people should not reproduce.
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#13 - Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:01 PM EST
{"commentId":5596336,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Diane,
The father was very educated on how he was allowd to ue physical punish on his daughter per the Fla Dept of Soc Svs. His own form of "I got you" to the State.
Best,
CVZ
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1 vote
·         Clint Van Zandt
·         Native,
·         They are still using cadaver dogs and as far as the initial search of the trailer, I saw (on TV) investigators going in and out of the trailer without the requisite white suits, but that may have been after the CSI team went through. Usually we would recommend they search for a body disposal site anywhere around where a suspect may have worked or where he otherwise knew his way around the area.
·         
·         Best,
·         CVZ
·         {"commentId":5719195,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
·         Clint Van Zandt
·         Lynn,
·         You are right, I believe, in that the key to Haleigh's disappearance rests with Misty and Ronald. They, are someone they know, will ultimately be fould responsible for whatever happened to the little girl, a story that is repeated far too often in this country...
·         Thanks for your comments!
·         CVZ
 
Clint Van Zandt
Kimm,
And Misty, the current girlfriend of the father, is but one of a string of 17 year old girlfriends he's allegedly had... Social Services really has its hands full in so many areas.
CVZ
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1 vote
#17.1 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 7:43 PM EST
 
 
 
MomOf3,
From a dad of 3, I also find the whole story fishy. While not appearing to be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, Misty, as you suggest, appears to have delayed calling 911 for reasons yet explained. We hear of drug usage by both and could assume that she had to hide the drugs before calling the cops...
For the father not to know his daughter's birthday is just unbelieveable and could speak volumes about his possible relationship with his daughter. Where is the test of truth by fire when we need it?
Best,
CVZ
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1 vote
 
#19 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 10:28 AM EST
 
 
Clint Van Zandt
Kim,
I am sorry for your loss. Who better than you could suggest how someone would "normally" respond to the loss of their child. My experience investigating kidnappings is that I usually encountered parents like you and your husband, couples that were shell shocked when their child was first kidnapped, and were afraid to even leave their home for lunch for fear their child would call or somehow show up and they not be there to greet their missing child.
While no one can suggest what the behavior of another should be, there are certain standards of response that are normal and what we see from Ron and his new bride do not fit that known standard.
Regards,
CVZ
Angellica,
It are good insincts like yours that keep you safe and life and help investigators solve cases. Misty looks like a scared little kid under the control of a tryant.
Best,
CVZ
mommy of 5
As a mother of 5, I don't think that anyone or anything would stand in the way of finding my child. Especially a WEDDING. God knows the truth, and someday we will too. Just to think that a wedding is more important than searching for my daughter. That is foolish. And as far as the interview is concerned...I would have done it from the back yard of my home, not hopped on a plane to NY. What were they thinking? I know in my heart that my husband would not pay any attention to anything other than finding his little girl, but I guess if you are involved the best thing to do is stay away I guess. I would be in those fields searching with the police to find my little girl.
I just have one question...What is wrong with people today?
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1 vote
#47 - Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:45 AM EDT
{"commentId":5934935,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Mommy of 5,
I believe that too many people believe the world begins and ends at the end of their own nose. They could really care less about others. While this goes along with part of the definition of a sociopath, it also speaks of someone who never learned to be a good human being, much less a good parent. Chldren are a gift and far too many people do not appreciate the gift they have.
Best,
CVZ
Bob Miler
Just a random thought.
If the father was at work he obviously clocked out or was seen leaving and the Police know when the call came and how long it took to get home. So if they called Police right when he got home that doesn't leave much time for him to be involved in anything does it?
I definetly believe something fishy but also believe the Police know what it is.
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1 vote
#49 - Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":5937514,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Bob,
Correct unless whatever happened, happened before he went to work and Misty was told to wait until the end of his work shift to call police. When the missing child was last seen by anyone other than the "two adults" in the home would be important, plus any physical evidence from the father's vehicle to suggest any side type trip, one that would be off the beaten path that he traveled back and forth to work. It is a time line that police need for the lask known 24 hours in the victim's life that would help resolve the case.
Best,
CVZ
AAraoz, Mary and other reasonable readers,
The most absurd part of this in Ron and Misty's belief that they could marry and fly off to NYC and it wouldn't point the finger at them. The combination of stupidity and arrogance is overwhelming!
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Ga-nana,
I think you are right, one of the two will crack or make a mistake. Misty already blew the interview on the Today Show, and her new husband is just too smug to be able to pull this off.
Also the issue of his mom being his alibi, we'll see if that holds water...
Best,
CVZ
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1 vote
 
#58.1 - Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:07
 
Mary-962194
Ron Cummings is just too quick and too smug with his answer "I don't know, I was at work".   This sounds like it was a planned alibi.  One he knew would stand because he was always at work at that time.    How odd that Misty woke up just before time for him to come home and for them to make the 911 call.   Everything just seems to be timed too perfert.
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#59 - Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:39 PM EDT
{"commentId":5987429,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Mary,
Almost as if it has all been orchestrated and Ron is proud of how he put this all together...
Best,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
BCH,
Good catch! That and any past tense reference, like "she would have wanted me to get married," are possible clues to either his guilty knowledge or his stupidity, or both...
Tks,
CVZ
{"commentId":6130213,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Meadow...,
There are a lot of questions left unanswered here and of the two that apparently have the answers, one is too grightened to talk and the second too smug to talk.
Be Safe,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Ronda,
I think you've hit upon the fact that the entire family, up and down, is disfunctional, and the children are the ones that suffer the most. While no one is perfect and most of us who are parents and grandparents have made our share of mistakes, most of us really try. In the case of Ron, Crystal and his new wife, the children had three strikes against them to begin with. Ron, Jr., has survived physically, but mentally will be another thing.
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
concerned,
While I share your caution on rushing to judgement, we each compare the behavior that we see with what we would expect from ourselves or from others. While we know it is wrong to compare, it is, nonetheless, part of life. When some over the top talk shows dedicate their nightly program to such cases, and when over 1 million people watch to get their crime fix, we know, unfortunately, such are human interest stories. As far as amateur detectives, it would appear that even the real world investigators are challenged by such cases. Even though you get a feeling after years of working these cases, you still know that you need to develop proof beyond a reasonable doubt or all you have is that feeling, one that does not convict, though the media does an interest job in the court of public opinion. Many people live vicariously through such cases, hoping beyond hope at times that they can somehow help solve the case and bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.
I believe in your prayers; hopefully they will bring the answer that so many now seek.
Best,
CVZ


PAT BROWN:

Pat Brown said...
I find Ronald Cummings reactions and statements a bit odd. The most recent comments to the press:

"Ronald Cummings also said he doesn't suspect his 17-year-old girlfriend did anything wrong the night Haleigh disappeared.

"I don't have any suspicions of anybody," Cummings said. "Obviously, if I knew what was going on, I would have my daughter."

Why would he have no suspicions of anyone or have any feeling the girlfriend could be involved? Usually the opposite is the problem....that you start suspecting everyone, especially the girlfriend you called a bitch and so many think are lying. As much of a control freak as this guy is and the fact he doesn't seem to worry much whether people like him, it is surprisingly he wouldn't be vicious toward his girlfriend if he had the slightest inkling she was lying.

Something doesn't add up here with Mr. Cummings.
February 20, 2009 12:34 PM
 
 
Pat Brown said...
The father is twenty-five. I don't think it is a big issue that the girl is seventeen in that she is not in school nor living with her parents and the emotional age between the two is not that great. The bigger problem is the involvement of social services in the family life which indicates there are issues within the home that have put the children's health and welfare at risk in the past. History is a great indicator of future issues whether they be neglect or abuse.
February 20, 2009 3:10 PM
 
 
Pat Brown said...
As disgusting as the Geraldo interview was with Ronald Cummings, I did find it fascinating that Ronald claimed he NEVER has used drugs, he has NEVER been abusive, that he NEVER sold drugs. If it turns out that he has lied about any of these issues, then we will have an example of how someone can stand in front of a camera and lie with total boldness. And, if he did lie about these things, does that mean he has lied about what happened to his daughter as well? I am looking forward to finding out what the truth is about Ronald Cummings. It will be very educational.
February 24, 2009 12:22 PM








These echo my sentiments and pattern of facts/actions that make no sense to me, and this is just a fraction of my list.........

The part I have bolded and colored, that is insinuating that CVZ "s "perception" is that she is dead. I was asking you what facts you were talking about that support your saying she is dead. You kept saying you determined her to be dead by facts and profilers "weighing in" . That looks as though profilers have stated that she is dead. I am just trying to understand this because I have not seen anything supporting that she is dead.

[mlee]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

[Searching]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

[mlee]

IM, in your post above, do you believe the author is talking about people who insert themselves into a case or the actual players?  I've read and reread his article, which is very very well written, and out of his possible scenarios that he has developed, I do not find him to say she's gone.  The scenarios are not great, no.  But he also does not mention anything about a family abduction.  (Personally, if it were anyone in the family, I do not think it had anything to do with back child support, but for different reasons on a more personal level.) I wonder what he thinks now, looking back at the last few months and after hearing what the police keep repeating.  And I would love to be able to hear what the current FBI profiler is saying about the case to LE.  Would have been NICE to hear that, or anything at all about this case, yes Monkeys????

I think a disservice has been done by keeping such a tight lid on things.  A LITTLE information might have helped crack this case by now, because I personally believe that once a small bit of info comes out in the media, players realize and whoever else knows realizes that they are GOING TO GET CAUGHT.  Might have helped some people come forward with any information by now.

Bunny, I do believe the purpose for keeping so a tight lid on this case,  was to protect the direction of travel the investigation was actually going in.  If the players at hand were aware of all the details,  then they would have the advantage.  LE apparently believes they are looking for a child who is very much alive.  A child well hidden,  a case that is basically circumstantial evidence, to lack of evidence.  If the payers knew that Le was actually building the case against them, Haleigh might well be moved, and continued to be moved, always a step ahead of Le.  This is primarily why they have said repeatedly, that finding Haleigh was the perquisite, and once she was found.. Then Heads will roll....  The concept that Haleigh must now be dead, is generated only by a statical basis, a generality.  Based on Evidence at hand versus No Evidence at hand. And only some peoples opinion, not based on any evidence currently held by Le.   And done so, to discourage the concept that anyone should continue searching for a living child.

[islandmonkey]

IM, in your post above, do you believe the author is talking about people who insert themselves into a case or the actual players?  I've read and reread his article, which is very very well written, and out of his possible scenarios that he has developed, I do not find him to say she's gone.  The scenarios are not great, no.  But he also does not mention anything about a family abduction.  (Personally, if it were anyone in the family, I do not think it had anything to do with back child support, but for different reasons on a more personal level.) I wonder what he thinks now, looking back at the last few months and after hearing what the police keep repeating.  And I would love to be able to hear what the current  FBI profiler is saying about the case to LE.  Would have been NICE to hear that, or anything at all about this case, yes Monkeys????

I think a disservice has been done by keeping such a tight lid on things.  A LITTLE information might have helped crack this case by now, because I personally believe that once a small bit of info comes out in the media, players realize and whoever else knows realizes that they are GOING TO GET CAUGHT.  Might have helped some people come forward with any information by now.

I think he is talking about those that insert themselves into the case, not the players.

CVZ in the article points out the 4 different theories:

Authorities are faced with at least four potential theories to explain Haleigh's disappearance, to include:

1) She was kidnapped by some unknown child predator.

Knowing that the Cummings clan has resided in the trailer home for less than one month, it is challenging to believe that a predator was able to identify the trailer as the home of two children and was then get in and out of the home, and the common bedroom, without his presence becoming known to Croslin, and without leaving some indication of how he was able to enter the dead bolted residence.

2) She was a kidnapped due to a vendetta against the former resident of the trailer, perhaps with someone believing he was taking another person's child as a kidnap victim.

While Phoenix, Arizona, has become the kidnap capital of America with 400 reported and perhaps another 400 unreported kidnappings in the past year, most of these are drug related crimes related to Mexican drug cartels and illegal aliens from south of the border, personal crimes such as this are not unknown to other southern states to include Florida.

3) She was the direct, targeted victim of an unknown person who had a reason to want to hurt or punish the victim's father due to some unknown personal matter.

Like the above scenario, there are those who seek to punish or force their demands on another by taking some action against the family of their target. Ron Cummings would obviously be able to tell investigators if this could be the case.

4) She was injured and/or killed by someone within her home or visiting her home, i.e., her father, her 17-year-old female caretaker, or a person visiting the trailer and someone known to one or both of the two "adults" who resided there, with everything after her disappearance and/or death representing a cover-up.

I don't think he included family abduction as IMO it an unrealistic and convuluted theory, but I do agree that the LE needs to be less tight lipped in this case as it's gotten them nowhere. They are back to square one, so maybe a different tactic might help.

I honestly don't think CVZ's opinions have changed because the facts are the same......nothing new has been gleened, and Ron and Misty still aren't cleared as suspects, I'm not sure but I'd think almost 6 months should be enough time to clear them and that is crucial as they were the last one's to see Haleigh and Haleigh disappeared under their care and their stories don't add up........

[islandmonkey]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

[islandmonkey]

Snipped

In regards to looking for these precious children, IIRC Tim Miller was looking in the woods thru heavy brush, and swamps..........I guess I just trust his instincts as to what he is looking for determined by WHERE he is looking.

I trust TM and know that he left after 2 days searching and stated this is not what it seems (not verbatim) Therefore, I believe TM knew he would not find her in those woods.

It is disturbing how so many are insisting she is dead with no evidence pointing to that fact. I saw on another forum, a missing 8 yr old boy who's mother has a history of abuse inflicting injury on a child, yet they are not willing to say he is dead,but are willing to say Haleigh is, I just do not understand the insistance that she is.   

I read Tim was asked to leave by LE I'll find the link if you want.also, if he did say things are not as they seem-there are MANY ways to interpret that statement IMO, especially after the Caylee ANthony case and the lack of cooperation, the same type of lack of cooperation that Misty has showm per LE.

I haven't insisted she's dead, I pray she is alive-but I don't believe she is based on the facts and length of time she has been missing, and the professional profilers...........I'd love to be wrong and hope I am, but statistically the odds are not good.

What facts might those be? There has been no evidence she is not alive and LE has stated they believe she is, so what FACTS are you going by to determine she is dead? Children have went missing for years and been found alive as adults.

The fact that she went missing from the care of her father/Misty, their numerous inconsistent statements, if you want me to list them I can (not today as I have an appt in 20 minutes), nut they don't add up.......Ron said he knew something was wrong because when he pulled up Misty was awake and at the door and she was usually aleep.......did he forget she had called him several times???? The fact there has been NO sighting of Haleigh. The fact that Ron and Misty decided to get married so soon as if  they are ready to move on with life. He and Misty constantly referred to her in past tense. Those are facts to me and facts that don't add up, but let me leave you with not my perception but the perception of criminal profilers, as they are the experts:

CLint Van Zandt:

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it
 
Sheriff's investigators, Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials, FBI Agents, criminal profilers and others are involved in a race against the clock to find missing Haleigh Cummings and, unfortunately, it is the clock and not the good guys that are winning the race. We can only hope for a positive conclusion to this case, but again, we know the odds are against this.
 
Cat,
I've seen spys and murderers pass polygraphs and seemingly innocent people come up deceptive (see my past msnbc.com article "Do Lie Detectors Lie?" at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7992482/, and since we have the father's characterization of the two of them "passing," this without law enforcement confirmation, I'm not ready to give them a pass on this case, especially with the circumstances as they currently appear. While the father's behavior appears crude but otherwise appropriate, many question his girlfriend's affect, or lack thereof. While, as my article suggests, there are a number of scenarios to explain what happen to the little girl, the two adults in the home still have explaining to do.
Best,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Jodi,
I fully believe that the investigators are continuing to look at the father and the teenager.
Best,
CVZ
Diane-914336
It is a shame that another young child is missing. The entire family on both sides appear to be uneducated and very poor. Makes you wonder how they afford the cigarettes they are puffing away on. Sorry, some people should not reproduce.
{"commentId":5591509,"threadId":"502675","contentId":"2441536","authorDomain":"snowowl725"}
#13 - Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:01 PM EST
{"commentId":5596336,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Diane,
The father was very educated on how he was allowd to ue physical punish on his daughter per the Fla Dept of Soc Svs. His own form of "I got you" to the State.
Best,
CVZ
{"commentId":5596336,"threadId":"502675","contentId":"2441536","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
1 vote
·         Clint Van Zandt
·         Native,
·         They are still using cadaver dogs and as far as the initial search of the trailer, I saw (on TV) investigators going in and out of the trailer without the requisite white suits, but that may have been after the CSI team went through. Usually we would recommend they search for a body disposal site anywhere around where a suspect may have worked or where he otherwise knew his way around the area.
·         
·         Best,
·         CVZ
·         {"commentId":5719195,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
·         Clint Van Zandt
·         Lynn,
·         You are right, I believe, in that the key to Haleigh's disappearance rests with Misty and Ronald. They, are someone they know, will ultimately be fould responsible for whatever happened to the little girl, a story that is repeated far too often in this country...
·         Thanks for your comments!
·         CVZ
 
Clint Van Zandt
Kimm,
And Misty, the current girlfriend of the father, is but one of a string of 17 year old girlfriends he's allegedly had... Social Services really has its hands full in so many areas.
CVZ
{"commentId":5744319,"threadId":"502675","contentId":"2441536","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
1 vote
#17.1 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 7:43 PM EST
 
 
 
MomOf3,
From a dad of 3, I also find the whole story fishy. While not appearing to be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, Misty, as you suggest, appears to have delayed calling 911 for reasons yet explained. We hear of drug usage by both and could assume that she had to hide the drugs before calling the cops...
For the father not to know his daughter's birthday is just unbelieveable and could speak volumes about his possible relationship with his daughter. Where is the test of truth by fire when we need it?
Best,
CVZ
{"commentId":5778256,"threadId":"502675","contentId":"2441536","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
1 vote
 
#19 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 10:28 AM EST
 
 
Clint Van Zandt
Kim,
I am sorry for your loss. Who better than you could suggest how someone would "normally" respond to the loss of their child. My experience investigating kidnappings is that I usually encountered parents like you and your husband, couples that were shell shocked when their child was first kidnapped, and were afraid to even leave their home for lunch for fear their child would call or somehow show up and they not be there to greet their missing child.
While no one can suggest what the behavior of another should be, there are certain standards of response that are normal and what we see from Ron and his new bride do not fit that known standard.
Regards,
CVZ
Angellica,
It are good insincts like yours that keep you safe and life and help investigators solve cases. Misty looks like a scared little kid under the control of a tryant.
Best,
CVZ
mommy of 5
As a mother of 5, I don't think that anyone or anything would stand in the way of finding my child. Especially a WEDDING. God knows the truth, and someday we will too. Just to think that a wedding is more important than searching for my daughter. That is foolish. And as far as the interview is concerned...I would have done it from the back yard of my home, not hopped on a plane to NY. What were they thinking? I know in my heart that my husband would not pay any attention to anything other than finding his little girl, but I guess if you are involved the best thing to do is stay away I guess. I would be in those fields searching with the police to find my little girl.
I just have one question...What is wrong with people today?
{"commentId":5933020,"threadId":"526744","contentId":"2542581","authorDomain":"rtlanz"}
1 vote
#47 - Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:45 AM EDT
{"commentId":5934935,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Mommy of 5,
I believe that too many people believe the world begins and ends at the end of their own nose. They could really care less about others. While this goes along with part of the definition of a sociopath, it also speaks of someone who never learned to be a good human being, much less a good parent. Chldren are a gift and far too many people do not appreciate the gift they have.
Best,
CVZ
Bob Miler
Just a random thought.
If the father was at work he obviously clocked out or was seen leaving and the Police know when the call came and how long it took to get home. So if they called Police right when he got home that doesn't leave much time for him to be involved in anything does it?
I definetly believe something fishy but also believe the Police know what it is.
{"commentId":5936885,"threadId":"526744","contentId":"2542581","authorDomain":"impapa25"}
1 vote
#49 - Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
{"commentId":5937514,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Bob,
Correct unless whatever happened, happened before he went to work and Misty was told to wait until the end of his work shift to call police. When the missing child was last seen by anyone other than the "two adults" in the home would be important, plus any physical evidence from the father's vehicle to suggest any side type trip, one that would be off the beaten path that he traveled back and forth to work. It is a time line that police need for the lask known 24 hours in the victim's life that would help resolve the case.
Best,
CVZ
AAraoz, Mary and other reasonable readers,
The most absurd part of this in Ron and Misty's belief that they could marry and fly off to NYC and it wouldn't point the finger at them. The combination of stupidity and arrogance is overwhelming!
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Ga-nana,
I think you are right, one of the two will crack or make a mistake. Misty already blew the interview on the Today Show, and her new husband is just too smug to be able to pull this off.
Also the issue of his mom being his alibi, we'll see if that holds water...
Best,
CVZ
{"commentId":5971977,"threadId":"526744","contentId":"2542581","authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
1 vote
 
#58.1 - Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:07
 
Mary-962194
Ron Cummings is just too quick and too smug with his answer "I don't know, I was at work".   This sounds like it was a planned alibi.  One he knew would stand because he was always at work at that time.    How odd that Misty woke up just before time for him to come home and for them to make the 911 call.   Everything just seems to be timed too perfert.
{"commentId":5986879,"threadId":"526744","contentId":"2542581","authorDomain":"mjphil"}
#59 - Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:39 PM EDT
{"commentId":5987429,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Mary,
Almost as if it has all been orchestrated and Ron is proud of how he put this all together...
Best,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
BCH,
Good catch! That and any past tense reference, like "she would have wanted me to get married," are possible clues to either his guilty knowledge or his stupidity, or both...
Tks,
CVZ
{"commentId":6130213,"authorDomain":"clintvanzandt"}
Clint Van Zandt
Meadow...,
There are a lot of questions left unanswered here and of the two that apparently have the answers, one is too grightened to talk and the second too smug to talk.
Be Safe,
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
Ronda,
I think you've hit upon the fact that the entire family, up and down, is disfunctional, and the children are the ones that suffer the most. While no one is perfect and most of us who are parents and grandparents have made our share of mistakes, most of us really try. In the case of Ron, Crystal and his new wife, the children had three strikes against them to begin with. Ron, Jr., has survived physically, but mentally will be another thing.
CVZ
Clint Van Zandt
concerned,
While I share your caution on rushing to judgement, we each compare the behavior that we see with what we would expect from ourselves or from others. While we know it is wrong to compare, it is, nonetheless, part of life. When some over the top talk shows dedicate their nightly program to such cases, and when over 1 million people watch to get their crime fix, we know, unfortunately, such are human interest stories. As far as amateur detectives, it would appear that even the real world investigators are challenged by such cases. Even though you get a feeling after years of working these cases, you still know that you need to develop proof beyond a reasonable doubt or all you have is that feeling, one that does not convict, though the media does an interest job in the court of public opinion. Many people live vicariously through such cases, hoping beyond hope at times that they can somehow help solve the case and bring the victim home safe. Good thoughts, but not very realistic in nature.
I believe in your prayers; hopefully they will bring the answer that so many now seek.
Best,
CVZ


PAT BROWN:

Pat Brown said...
I find Ronald Cummings reactions and statements a bit odd. The most recent comments to the press:

"Ronald Cummings also said he doesn't suspect his 17-year-old girlfriend did anything wrong the night Haleigh disappeared.

"I don't have any suspicions of anybody," Cummings said. "Obviously, if I knew what was going on, I would have my daughter."

Why would he have no suspicions of anyone or have any feeling the girlfriend could be involved? Usually the opposite is the problem....that you start suspecting everyone, especially the girlfriend you called a bitch and so many think are lying. As much of a control freak as this guy is and the fact he doesn't seem to worry much whether people like him, it is surprisingly he wouldn't be vicious toward his girlfriend if he had the slightest inkling she was lying.

Something doesn't add up here with Mr. Cummings.
February 20, 2009 12:34 PM
 
 
Pat Brown said...
The father is twenty-five. I don't think it is a big issue that the girl is seventeen in that she is not in school nor living with her parents and the emotional age between the two is not that great. The bigger problem is the involvement of social services in the family life which indicates there are issues within the home that have put the children's health and welfare at risk in the past. History is a great indicator of future issues whether they be neglect or abuse.
February 20, 2009 3:10 PM
 
 
Pat Brown said...
As disgusting as the Geraldo interview was with Ronald Cummings, I did find it fascinating that Ronald claimed he NEVER has used drugs, he has NEVER been abusive, that he NEVER sold drugs. If it turns out that he has lied about any of these issues, then we will have an example of how someone can stand in front of a camera and lie with total boldness. And, if he did lie about these things, does that mean he has lied about what happened to his daughter as well? I am looking forward to finding out what the truth is about Ronald Cummings. It will be very educational.
February 24, 2009 12:22 PM








These echo my sentiments and pattern of facts/actions that make no sense to me, and this is just a fraction of my list.........

The part I have bolded and colored, that is insinuating that CVZ "s "perception" is that she is dead. I was asking you what facts you were talking about that support your saying she is dead. You kept saying you determined her to be dead by facts and profilers "weighing in" . That looks as though profilers have stated that she is dead. I am just trying to understand this because I have not seen anything supporting that she is dead.

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

[mlee]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

That can easily be resolved, I'll find his email address and pose the question to him.. when I receive the reponse, I will post it..

[Searching]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

Apparently you missed the bolded part.

[islandmonkey]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

That can easily be resolved, I'll find his email address and pose the question to him.. when I receive the reponse, I will post it..

I see you have already posted that question on his blog on the 23rd........I look forward to a respone

[islandmonkey]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

Apparently you missed the bolded part.

No, I was looking my boded part......... .

[mlee]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

That can easily be resolved, I'll find his email address and pose the question to him.. when I receive the reponse, I will post it..

I see you have already posted that question on his blog on the 23rd........I look forward to a respone

And, I have just sent the email off to him.. waitiing for a response.

[Searching]

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

 I have not put words into your mouth at all. You are consistently stating that you believe her to be dead. I have not heard or read anywhere lately that LE is still stating Ron and Misty are lying, matter of fact, I do not believe they ever have. There is no reason at all for you to be so snippy. I responded to Thunder Bunny yesterday and you were all over me like white on rice. I put a generalization in my post yesterday,not any certain name, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

[Searching]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

Apparently you missed the bolded part.

No, I was looking my boded part......... .

Well then, Maybe you should read the entire post instead of picking a part of it that you can use to try to make someone look bad as well as be snide.