Natalee Case Discussion #825 10/12/09 - 11/07/09

[Kermit]

Deepak:  They're going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl.
(source: Police Car Conversation Joran & Kalpoes)

Deepak Kalpoe:
That’s what I mean, ]we know much more. 
(source: Jamie Skeeters tape)

Deepak Kalpoe:
Believe me, I know more than you in statements. There are, they
have probably enough on him. (chuckles) They let us go for a reason. Come on, the judge is not stupid.


Sept 17, 2007 - Mark Purcell emailed Capslockwizard

October 16, 2007 Capslockwizarch came to our blog via an email sent to him from Kawish Misier.   Karam Misier - A man contacted Dave & asked him to meet at the VIP Club (Owned by the Misier's) Kawish Misier is friends with Deepak, Satish along with Joran

11-21-07 Joran & Kalpoes re-arrested based on new "evidence"
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6973/neweividencewn1.jpg

Nov 26 2007 Caps search word Joran wiretapping

Jorans hearing is December 6, 2007
 

17-Dec - 1215 hrs: The Persistence has begun the search
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

18-Dec - 1500 hrs:
Aruba authorities and prosecutors close the Holloway case and investigation and said they do not have the evidence to charge anyone. Prosecutors said they could reopen the case "if new serious evidence were to be found."


DEC 29TH DIVE - A skull
DEC 30 DIVE
Capslockwizard emails Dave Holloway to get him to search the pond in Aruba.
JAN 7 DIVE ONLY ARUBAN DIVERS - denim SKIRT

*Jan 23 (Wed) - xxxxx gets email from xxxx asking to take focus off of Persistence

Jan 24 - Kyle shares concerns about a "leak"

Jan 24 - DeVreies gives Mos recorded "confession"

 DATE??mos tells Peter not enough evidence of recordings to warrant re=arrests

Jan 25 - Persistence writes about new search area based on confession

Jan 28 - Kyle NOT on the Persistence

Jan 29 - Kyle STILL not on Persistence (at least in the morning hours)
Jan 29 - 5th Rover tape with urine made in hurriedly outfitted new car

Jan. 30  (Wed) - Beth left for Netherlands and viewed Range Rover tapes with Peter deVries.

Jan 31 - Kyle hints at something found to US

Jan 31 - DeVries makes public this "confesstion"

Jan. 31  (Thurs)- oceanexploration was signed in at sm (from Atlanta Airport)
Jan 31 2008 - Beth views tape of Joran's confession with DeVries

Kermit, I added a couple thinks bolded in red above....not sure if they fit where you are going with this, but thought I'd add them to see what you think....

I added:
DATE??mos tells Peter not enough evidence of recordings to warrant re=arrests
Jan 29 - 5th Rover tape with urine made in hurriedly outfitted new car

Thank you billb - good memory.  I will look for that one too.



Fri November 30, 2007
Brothers to be freed in Natalee Holloway case

The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html

Dec. 3, 2007 'ON THE RECORD' Greta interview with John Q. Kelly

GRETA: "He [Hans Mos] told me the reason the investigation had failed was because of two reasons, one is the family, and bringing in the DA who happened to be there on the island at the time and the other is the media.
that's what he said is why this has failed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHeqjDk_kpg&feature=related
From the Public Prosecutor’s Office


Date December 5, 2007
MOS press release
the case file does not contain direct indications of the suspects’ involvement in a violent crime against Natalee the Court does not see sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects’ involvement in the crimes for which pre-trial detention has been requested by the Public Prosecutor (which is manslaughter or battery/assault causing death).


Castillo and Young Press Conference
January 16, 2008

Wednesday, 16 January 2008 Today, Beth Holloway the mother of Natalee Holloway will appear in a special show on one of the most popular television shows in the United States, the Oprah Winfrey show. However, today in a shocking fashion local radiostations presented a press conference that revealed new and shocking information in the dissapearance of the Alabama teenager, Natalee Holloway. http://aruba-zone.com/content/view/460/1%20

[Tamikosmom]

Deepak:  They're going to give you fifteen years if they find the girl.
(source: Police Car Conversation Joran & Kalpoes)

Deepak Kalpoe:
That’s what I mean, ]we know much more. 
(source: Jamie Skeeters tape)

Deepak Kalpoe:
Believe me, I know more than you in statements. There are, they
have probably enough on him. (chuckles) They let us go for a reason. Come on, the judge is not stupid.


Sept 17, 2007 - Mark Purcell emailed Capslockwizard

October 16, 2007 Capslockwizarch came to our blog via an email sent to him from Kawish Misier.   Karam Misier - A man contacted Dave & asked him to meet at the VIP Club (Owned by the Misier's) Kawish Misier is friends with Deepak, Satish along with Joran

11-21-07 Joran & Kalpoes re-arrested based on new "evidence"
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6973/neweividencewn1.jpg

Nov 26 2007 Caps search word Joran wiretapping

Jorans hearing is December 6, 2007
 

17-Dec - 1215 hrs: The Persistence has begun the search
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

18-Dec - 1500 hrs:
Aruba authorities and prosecutors close the Holloway case and investigation and said they do not have the evidence to charge anyone. Prosecutors said they could reopen the case "if new serious evidence were to be found."


DEC 29TH DIVE - A skull
DEC 30 DIVE
Capslockwizard emails Dave Holloway to get him to search the pond in Aruba.
JAN 7 DIVE ONLY ARUBAN DIVERS - denim SKIRT

*Jan 23 (Wed) - xxxxx gets email from xxxx asking to take focus off of Persistence

Jan 24 - Kyle shares concerns about a "leak"

Jan 24 - DeVreies gives Mos recorded "confession"

 DATE??mos tells Peter not enough evidence of recordings to warrant re=arrests

Jan 25 - Persistence writes about new search area based on confession

Jan 28 - Kyle NOT on the Persistence

Jan 29 - Kyle STILL not on Persistence (at least in the morning hours)
Jan 29 - 5th Rover tape with urine made in hurriedly outfitted new car

Jan. 30  (Wed) - Beth left for Netherlands and viewed Range Rover tapes with Peter deVries.

Jan 31 - Kyle hints at something found to US

Jan 31 - DeVries makes public this "confesstion"

Jan. 31  (Thurs)- oceanexploration was signed in at sm (from Atlanta Airport)
Jan 31 2008 - Beth views tape of Joran's confession with DeVries

Kermit, I added a couple thinks bolded in red above....not sure if they fit where you are going with this, but thought I'd add them to see what you think....

I added:
DATE??mos tells Peter not enough evidence of recordings to warrant re=arrests
Jan 29 - 5th Rover tape with urine made in hurriedly outfitted new car

billb ... I agree.

Janet

++++++++

Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

[Kermit]

Kermit

Thank you for sharing a compilation of your research and insights.  I appreciate your time and effort.

 

In my opinion ... yesterday ... you provided the forum with the Grandfather of all posts ... the post that "implied" in Kyle Kingman's own words a "possible" Persistence - Range Rover connection.  I am still pinching myself to make sure I am not dreaming.

For your dinner ... I will whip up one of those shoe fly pies ... that your Grandma used to make ... as a gesture of my appreciation.

I am off to catch the ingredients with our electric swatter.

Later, Janet

I'm not sure what the connection is you mention, but I'll take Shoe Fly Pie any ol day!

[Tamikosmom]

Could the detainments of Joran, Deepak and Satish in November, 2007 have been all about getting stories straight for the Range Rover recordings that Dutch Authorities knew were going to happen?  Could the the timing of the arrests have some significance?

Think about it.  Hans Mos claimed to have sufficient new evidence to warrant charges.  However ... John Kelly claims that the prosecutor had nothing new.

Janet

+++++++

PATRICK VANDER EEM:  THE TIMING OF THE ARRESTS

Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
February 4, 2008

Setback

But once the trap was set -- once de Vries had set van der Eem up with a brand new Range Rover tricked out with three hidden cameras, audio recording devices and a Lowjack-like tracking system, de Vries and van der Eem learned that their target had been re-arrested and was back in custody of the Aruba authorities.

"Three days before I was getting my car, he was gone,'' van der Eem said. "Oh, and it was the most … pain in my life. Peter [de Vries], me…everybody was devastated."

But the arrest eventually worked in their favor: Once a judge ordered van der Sloot released for lack of evidence and prosecutors acknowledged they would close the case, van der Eem said he realized he had a new opportunity on his hands.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4236425&page=2


Wednesday, February 06, 2008
Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.   Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/


HANS MOS:  JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ARRESTS

ABC NEWS - November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.

ttp://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


On the Record with Greta - November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html


JOHN Q. KELLY - NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ARREST

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: ... John, how was your weekend?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there ...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... The prosecutor had misleading statements?

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new, Greta. It's just the — you know, the — you know, the contradictory statements the boys made and some other accounts and the timeline and things like that that's been out there for two-and-a-half years now.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY: I can say it with 99 percent.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[wreck]

Kermit

Thank you for sharing a compilation of your research and insights.  I appreciate your time and effort.

 

In my opinion ... yesterday ... you provided the forum with the Grandfather of all posts ... the post that "implied" in Kyle Kingman's own words a "possible" Persistence - Range Rover connection.  I am still pinching myself to make sure I am not dreaming.

For your dinner ... I will whip up one of those shoe fly pies ... that your Grandma used to make ... as a gesture of my appreciation.

I am off to catch the ingredients with our electric swatter.

Later, Janet

I'm not sure what the connection is you mention, but I'll take Shoe Fly Pie any ol day!

Janet's contends that you validated that the Devries tapes were a diversion to the "cage" contents debacle. It is my contention that they may have contributed "after the fact" - but the "Range Rover" tapes had NOTHING to do with the Persistence -- they were planned before the Persistence search was even announced.

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit

Thank you for sharing a compilation of your research and insights.  I appreciate your time and effort.

 

In my opinion ... yesterday ... you provided the forum with the Grandfather of all posts ... the post that "implied" in Kyle Kingman's own words a "possible" Persistence - Range Rover connection.  I am still pinching myself to make sure I am not dreaming.

For your dinner ... I will whip up one of those shoe fly pies ... that your Grandma used to make ... as a gesture of my appreciation.

I am off to catch the ingredients with our electric swatter.

Later, Janet

I'm not sure what the connection is you mention, but I'll take Shoe Fly Pie any ol day!

I've just put the shoe fly pie in the oven.  The electric zapper implies I could double the amount of flies that the recipe calls for.  YUMMMY!

Considering hubby and I are having stir fried pork and veggies for dinner ... maybe you could share your pie with the lovely Miss Piggy.

Janet

++++++

THE PERSISTENCE - RANGE ROVER CONNECTION?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle said: "10 days before the announcement of the DeVries tapes I met Mos downtown in public"

During this time, I was eagerly waiting for results from the Jan-7th trap samples. I expected him to know something by then. When we met, he asked me how I was doing and he said that he was suprised that I was still in Aruba. After some small talk back and forth, he asked when I was leaving. I flipped the question around on him, asking, "Hans, you tell me. When am I going home?" With that, he hesitated. It was clear to me that he knew something big that we didn't. I picked up on this and looked right into his eyes and asked him "Hans, between you and I, when will my family see me again?" He looked around for anyone watching or listening, leaned forward and said into my ear: "ten days". He then turned and walked away without saying another word.

I had no idea what 10 days meant at the time, but it meant something big was going to happen. I had assumed it related to the trap and it's contents, but couldn't prove anything. Well, 10 days later the announcement was made about the existence of the land rover tapes. I was really confused and didn't know what to feel. I honestly was a little dissapointed that the 10 days was about the confession tapes.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

[wreck]

I stand by my contention that Devries knew absolutely nothing about The Persistence and the contents of the cage. 2 wholey different operations. If I'm wrong -- I'll gladly eat crow. I still cannot fathom why Joran would tell Patrick ("on purpose") that he was present during Natalee's demise. He has nothing to gain from it. Also -- I don't see how his "story" exonerates the Kalpoes. They are already are on record stating their involvement and getting on the internet with false stories. They were already admitting to things on the Skeeter tapes and a judge had already stated that they "were involved in body disposal". If Devries bought Joran's "confession" as a "full confession" -- he was simply WRONG. Being WRONG does not make him part of the cover-up.

[wreck]

Furthermore, as Texasmom pointed out earlier ---
Beth was on with Dana AFTER the release of the Devries tapes. On the show, Beth was concerned with the 1st 48 hours (not just that first night as in Joran's story). Beth was still adamant that Paulus was involved (again, that doesn't jibe with Devries' version). I think this shows that she was PLEASED with Devries -- but not taking Joran at his word verbatim.

[San]

I'm looking for Magnolia.  Magnolia if you are lurking come down and post. If you don't post I will send my two new puppies to your home and they are hyper   

[billb's daughter]

Kermit

I contend that Kyle Kingman's own words clearly reveals three of the distractions that were established to take the focus off the trap/cage which was located by the Persistence following the visit from the dectective who was in the know.

1.  The false lead of January 1, 2008.
2.  The Range Rover confession tapes of January, 2008.
3.  The Pond search of January, 2008.

Janet

And it's all documented as an orchestrated conspiracy to cover-up.

Bumped

[billb's daughter]

Good evening Good monkeys.....

[wreck]

Kermit

I contend that Kyle Kingman's own words clearly reveals three of the distractions that were established to take the focus off the trap/cage which was located by the Persistence following the visit from the dectective who was in the know.

1.  The false lead of January 1, 2008.
2.  The Range Rover confession tapes of January, 2008.
3.  The Pond search of January, 2008.

Janet

And it's all documented as an orchestrated conspiracy to cover-up.

Bumped

Well, I agree with #1 and # 3.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Furthermore, as Texasmom pointed out earlier ---
Beth was on with Dana AFTER the release of the Devries tapes. On the show, Beth was concerned with the 1st 48 hours (not just that first night as in Joran's story). Beth was still adamant that Paulus was involved (again, that doesn't jibe with Devries' version). I think this shows that she was PLEASED with Devries -- but not taking Joran at his word verbatim.

Let's not forget that a year following the rearrest and release, the Persistence and the Land Rover tapes, Joran gave Greta another story (11/25/08) about trafficking Natalee and later saying he made it up.  WTF? 

Beth was pleased with DeVries at that point & emotionally crushed by what the dialogue reviealed.  Joran remains the liar to the majority to this date.  Anita, he's a POS.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I'm looking for Magnolia.  Magnolia if you are lurking come down and post. If you don't post I will send my two new puppies to your home and they are hyper   

Magnolia, you're not giving up.  It ain't sitting well with most of us.

[billb's daughter]

Kermit

I contend that Kyle Kingman's own words clearly reveals three of the distractions that were established to take the focus off the trap/cage which was located by the Persistence following the visit from the dectective who was in the know.

1.  The false lead of January 1, 2008.
2.  The Range Rover confession tapes of January, 2008.
3.  The Pond search of January, 2008.

Janet

And it's all documented as an orchestrated conspiracy to cover-up.

Bumped

I bumped this forward from yesterday because of last evenings and today's discussions.
I think we all pretty much agree on numbers 1 and 3 above were orchestrated distractions meant to take focus away from the persistence discovery and the cage recovery.
Number 2 - not so much common agreement.....

[Magnolia]

No.....I am not giving up.

San, I didn't know you had puppies   What kind?

DeVries delivered the tapes of the Range Rover to Mos in Aruba a week before the airing
on television.  It is highly unlikely that DeVries just showed up at Mos' office with the tapes.
I  would imagine that DeVries called Mos several days in advance to tell him about the
recordings, when they would air and to make an appointment;
Then DeVries made a plane reservation to fly to Aruba.  I don't think DeVries would fly in blind.
So if Mos told Kyle "ten days", it is likely that Devries had told Mos when the progran was
scheduled to air and Mos was readying himself for the fallout.

What will it prove if DeVries sold out for "a price"?

[Kermit]

Could the detainments of Joran, Deepak and Satish in November, 2007 have been all about getting stories straight for the Range Rover recordings that Dutch Authorities knew were going to happen?  Could the the timing of the arrests have some significance?

Think about it.  Hans Mos claimed to have sufficient new evidence to warrant charges.  However ... John Kelly claims that the prosecutor had nothing new.

Janet

Knowing what we know now, I believe that is a high probability that Hans Mos was involved in the corruption/cover-up. But I do not think that Peter deVries was. I think Peter deVries would give his left nut to put Joran and his father away and serve Justice.
If anything, Hans Mos was probably well aware of where Joran was and his activities. I know I knew when johan was posting here that he said Joran was in Den Dolder and that was a lie. I knew it because I knew exactly where Joran was and I knew what he was doing. But it's Hans Mos that has shown himself to be a coward and a liar!

[Kermit]

Janet,
Thank you for the shoe-fly pie. Miss Piggy is in the other room licking her chops. I told her you made it special for us tonight. weeeeeeeeee

[wreck]

Could the detainments of Joran, Deepak and Satish in November, 2007 have been all about getting stories straight for the Range Rover recordings that Dutch Authorities knew were going to happen?  Could the the timing of the arrests have some significance?

Think about it.  Hans Mos claimed to have sufficient new evidence to warrant charges.  However ... John Kelly claims that the prosecutor had nothing new.

Janet

Knowing what we know now, I believe that is a high probability that Hans Mos was involved in the corruption/cover-up. But I do not think that Peter deVries was. I think Peter deVries would give his left nut to put Joran and his father away and serve Justice.
If anything, Hans Mos was probably well aware of where Joran was and his activities. I know I knew when johan was posting here that he said Joran was in Den Dolder and that was a lie. I knew it because I knew exactly where Joran was and I knew what he was doing. But it's Hans Mos that has shown himself to be a coward and a liar!

Now THAT I could agree on!

[Kermit]

Could the detainments of Joran, Deepak and Satish in November, 2007 have been all about getting stories straight for the Range Rover recordings that Dutch Authorities knew were going to happen?  Could the the timing of the arrests have some significance?

Think about it.  Hans Mos claimed to have sufficient new evidence to warrant charges.  However ... John Kelly claims that the prosecutor had nothing new.

Janet

Knowing what we know now, I believe that is a high probability that Hans Mos was involved in the corruption/cover-up. But I do not think that Peter deVries was. I think Peter deVries would give his left nut to put Joran and his father away and serve Justice.
If anything, Hans Mos was probably well aware of where Joran was and his activities. I know I knew when johan was posting here that he said Joran was in Den Dolder and that was a lie. I knew it because I knew exactly where Joran was and I knew what he was doing. But it's Hans Mos that has shown himself to be a coward and a liar!

What I was trying to say is if I knew about Joran's whereabouts, and I assure you I did, then surely the Prosecutor of Aruba knew too. And we see Mark Purcell and Kawish and Capslockwizard all getting involved too around that time.