Natalee Case Discussion #825 10/12/09 - 11/07/09

[texasmom]

It is the expectation of Monkeys that Kyle Kingman does right and ... breaks his silence and ... reveals all that he observed and heard while on board the Persistence ... all that he observed and heard that appeared to further the Aruban cover up that has prevented justice from since May 30, 2005 and ... denied closure to the family of Natalaee Holloway.

Monkeys have questioned Kyle Kingman's ongoing beneficial relationship with John Silvetti following the trap/cage recovery?

Monkeys have questioned Kyle Kingman's outreach for funds to underwrite the investigation of identified targets in Aruban water? 

Why is Tim Miller exempt from that same expectation and the same hard questions?

I am sincerely attempting to comprehend the difference.

Janet

++++++++

Debbie (BFN)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »»

Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together.. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027

You have the right to your opinion, just as we all do.  Although I resent the questioning AGAIN of this forum as a group; I will respond with my opinion only.

It's simple for me:

http://texasequusearch.org/make-a-donation/

Texas EquuSearch is a non-profit, 501(c)3 organization which operates strictly on donations from individuals and grants from organizations.  We sincerely appreciate your willingness to contribute to our mission and assist us in our quest to locate the lost and missing people in the US and globally.

The same does not apply to Kyle Kingman.

[Keepthefaith]

We all have different opinions and that's what makes us unique!We all will take different paths to were we're headed in the END.We'll all end up at the same place in the end me thinks..............

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

[texasmom]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all.   If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all.He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

I don't either wreck.  But I feel confident that Tim Miller would be just as appreciative of any assistance that his critics can line up for him in that respect.

[Tamikosmom]

At this point in time ... I do not believe that justice for Natalee Holloway through accountability is going to prevail in an Aruban court.  The implications are too far reaching.

However ... if the truth encompassing the trap/cage were to be revealed in an American courtroom ... maybe a measure of closure will be afforded to her family.

The known witnesses ... Kyle Kingman, Tim Trahan, Tim Miller, Ryan Poff  and the Dateline crew ... as well as the exposure of entire ROV footage has the ability to make it all happen.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - TIM MILLER - THE DATELINE CREW

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents.

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

[Keepthefaith]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all.   If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all.He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

I don't either wreck.  But I feel confident that Tim Miller would be just as appreciative of any assistance that his critics can line up for him in that respect.

So...If we believe that the Persistence crew,or shall i say Silvetti,afforded ALE the opportunity to potentially remove Natalee Holloway's remains from the cage,potentially denying a family thier daughters remains...Would YOU associate with that person?I sure as hell wouldn't!I happen to disagree with Tim Miller's associating with Silvetti.A person who potentially helped to disappear the remains of a MISSING PERSON!

[Keepthefaith]

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th

[Keepthefaith]

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline already began scripting a story that we found Natalee on the 29th of Dec. Obviously this was halted on Dec 30th

If i read this correctly,there had to have been conversations between certain people that felt Natalee had been found.WHO were privy to those conversations......What happened!!!!

[wreck]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all.   If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all.He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

I don't either wreck.  But I feel confident that Tim Miller would be just as appreciative of any assistance that his critics can line up for him in that respect.

So...If we believe that the Persistence crew,or shall i say Silvetti,afforded ALE the opportunity to potentially remove Natalee Holloway's remains from the cage,potentially denying a family thier daughters remains...Would YOU associate with that person?I sure as hell wouldn't!I happen to disagree with Tim Miller's associating with Silvetti.A person who potentially helped to disappear the remains of a MISSING PERSON!

Do we know that Tim Miller KNOWS Silvetti thwarted justice for Natalee???????? Show me that and I would change my mind.

[wreck]

Tim Miller was "thrown off" the Persistence and sent on a wild goose chase in Columbia(?).

[Keepthefaith]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all.   If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all.He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

I don't either wreck.  But I feel confident that Tim Miller would be just as appreciative of any assistance that his critics can line up for him in that respect.

So...If we believe that the Persistence crew,or shall i say Silvetti,afforded ALE the opportunity to potentially remove Natalee Holloway's remains from the cage,potentially denying a family thier daughters remains...Would YOU associate with that person?I sure as hell wouldn't!I happen to disagree with Tim Miller's associating with Silvetti.A person who potentially helped to disappear the remains of a MISSING PERSON!

Do we know that Tim Miller KNOWS Silvetti thwarted justice for Natalee???????? Show me that and I would change my mind.

You may be correct Wreck!He may not know.One would think that someone would have clued him in,i don't know.If Tim Miller is unaware,my apologies for being critical of his relationship!If he is aware of what transpired in regards to Silvetti,well then,i'm back where i started.I understand the other side of the argument,i just don't agree with it.If you look for missing people,why would you associate with someone that "potentially" allowed a missing persons remains to be confiscated and disappeared again?I understand that Tim Miller's goal is to search for missing people but,to align yourself with Silvetti just turns my stomach.To have someone helping to look for missing people who potentially allowed a missing persons remains to be disappeared again is illogical in my book but,what do i know???It may not be the popular opinion but it is mine and i stand by it!


KTF

[texasmom]

Tim Miller was "thrown off" the Persistence and sent on a wild goose chase in Columbia(?).

Exactly.  And for good reason.  If Tim Miller had been on board the Persistence on January 7th, it would have been OVER HIS DEAD BODY that the Arubans ONLY would have taken what was recovered from that trap!  And everyone on that boat KNEW IT!

JMO

[wreck]

I really don't think Tim KNOWS. He goes full-bore, balls-to-the-wall, in each case he covers -- and that is almost 24/7. I really don't think he reads SM -- ever. Does Dave tell him --- No, I don't think so. (In fact, I'm not even sure DAVE knows).

[Tamikosmom]

Tim Miller is aware of Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to the recovery dive of January 7, 2008 and ... he still chooses to have an ongoing relationship with John Silvetti as well as ... receive donations on behalf of an further search in Aruban waters for Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

[wreck]

Tim Miller is aware of Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to the recovery dive of January 7, 2008 and ... he still chooses to have an ongoing relationship with John Silvetti as well as ... receive donations on behalf of an further search in Aruban waters for Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

I missed that -- where does it show Tim Miller is aware?

[Magnolia]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all. If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all. He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

Very well said, Wreck!   

[wreck]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all. If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all. He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

Very well said, Wreck!   

I think the money that TES has already invested in Natalee far exceeds funds they have spent on any other case. I think Tim has awfully hard decisions to make on where to allocate his donations.

[Magnolia]

We must remember that Tim Miller was a volunteer in the Persistence search, who never had posession of
the ROV footage.  The only proof that Tim had was what he saw on the screen that he thought was a skull.
He said that he thought it was her, even called Dave Holloway, but that was quickly debunked by Tim Trahan
on his dive.  Then Tim Miller was sent off the boat in search of Marcos.

Kyle on the other hand, was a paid employee of Schaefer/Silvetti and admitted that he had the ROV footage
and had , in fact, tried to sell it.  He then made the conscious decision to keep that footage from Natalee's family
and the American authorities.

Even if the complete "Kyle Kingman in his own words" was sent to Tim Miller, we do not know that he sat down
and read it.  If he did, what was he suppose to do?

BTW, I do not live in the twilight zone.

[can]

I have a problem with Tim Miller associating with John Silvetti.If i believe John Silvetti allowed the Aruban's to take the cage/trap contents uncontested,and that was Natalee Holloway....

I believe Tim Miller could get the assistance,sonar equipment,and help he needs to search for missing people from someone other then John Silvetti,Louis Schaefer,and anyone else involved in the Persistence search!JMOO 

Thank you Keepthefaith.  I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

 

Janet

I understand Tim Miller has done more in his lifetime to help the missing and their families then most anybody will do in a thousand lifetimes.That's not my issue.My issue is in the relationship he has with those i believe took part in the cover-up/search!My question is.Do i believe Tim Miller could get the needed equipment and help that he recieves from Silvetti & Schaeffer,from someone else??Absolutely!I know many don't agree with me but,that's OK!

I think TES gets help from whomever they can..................................I don't see ANYONE OTHER than Silvetti/Schafer donating ships at all. If Tim Miller refused to take donations from them -- he would have no assistance at all. He can't dedicate to Natalee and foresake the hundreds of other equally deserving missing victims. Tim Miller is beholden to many more people than just Beth.

Very well said, Wreck!   

I think the money that TES has already invested in Natalee far exceeds funds they have spent on any other case. I think Tim has awfully hard decisions to make on where to allocate his donations.

I agree Wreck.  IIRC Tim has mentioned receiving requests from other kin of ones missing and how he must answer their calls too and not focus all
resources on one case, Natalee's. 

[San]

We must remember that Tim Miller was a volunteer in the Persistence search, who never had posession of
the ROV footage.  The only proof that Tim had was what he saw on the screen that he thought was a skull.
He said that he thought it was her, even called Dave Holloway, but that was quickly debunked by Tim Trahan
on his dive.  Then Tim Miller was sent off the boat in search of Marcos.

Kyle on the other hand, was a paid employee of Schaefer/Silvetti and admitted that he had the ROV footage
and had , in fact, tried to sell it.  He then made the conscious decision to keep that footage from Natalee's family
and the American authorities.
Even if the complete "Kyle Kingman in his own words" was sent to Tim Miller, we do not know that he sat down
and read it.  If he did, what was he suppose to do?

BTW, I do not live in the twilight zone.

I agree. 

[texasmom]

We must remember that Tim Miller was a volunteer in the Persistence search, who never had posession of the ROV footage. 

The only proof that Tim had was what he saw on the screen that he thought was a skull.

He said that he thought it was her, even called Dave Holloway, but that was quickly debunked by Tim Trahan on his dive. 

Then Tim Miller was sent off the boat in search of Marcos.

Kyle on the other hand, was a paid employee of Schaefer/Silvetti and admitted that he had the ROV footage and had , in fact, tried to sell it.  He then made the conscious decision to keep that footage from Natalee's family and the American authorities.

Even if the complete "Kyle Kingman in his own words" was sent to Tim Miller, we do not know that he sat down and read it.  If he did, what was he suppose to do?

BTW, I do not live in the twilight zone.

Thank you Magnolia.  

Even though I said it was simple for me, all of the things you pointed out have also been part of my thought process.