Natalee Case Discussion #825 10/12/09 - 11/07/09

[Magnolia]

I have read old threads tonight until my eyes hurt.

Most of the Range Rover tapes were made prior to Joran being re-arrested in Holland in November 2007
I think Joran was  re-arrested during the  RR tapings.  Before anything was definate about the Persistence.
It was while Joran was awaiting extradition from the NL that Dave announced that a ship was going
to Aruba for a search.  Mos said he didn't know what Dave would be searching for, but he was welcome to search.
Lazlo had said in early November at RU that Joran had been recorded by a friend.  It was assumed by many that
it was recorded by wiretap.  That was not the case.
Joran stayed on Aruba until after the New Year in 2008.

I should have added....when Joran went back to Holland they tried to record him again in a hastily outfitted vehicle.
They no longer had the Range Rover.  He was suspicious then and they got nothing else.
I do NOT think Joran knew he was being recorded in the first tapes.  He is not that good an actor.
And he has more sense that to admit what he did, if he knew he was being taped.

[San]

I have read old threads tonight until my eyes hurt.

Most of the Range Rover tapes were made prior to Joran being re-arrested in Holland in November 2007
I think Joran was  re-arrested during the  RR tapings.  Before anything was definate about the Persistence.
It was while Joran was awaiting extradition from the NL that Dave announced that a ship was going
to Aruba for a search.  Mos said he didn't know what Dave would be searching for, but he was welcome to search.
Lazlo had said in early November at RU that Joran had been recorded by a friend.  It was assumed by many that
it was recorded by wiretap.  That was not the case.
Joran stayed on Aruba until after the New Year in 2008.

Here is an old article regarding new info.

Prosecutors said Wednesday that they had ordered the three men re-arrested and disclosed that they had new evidence, although officials declined to provide any details.

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, citing anonymous detectives in Aruba, reported Friday that the new evidence is derived from phone taps of conversations between Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes from earlier this year in which they contradict their earlier statements to police.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312710,00.html

[snoopy]

Here's something else  that's been on my mind for a long time.

The rock scene ( Aru-bay videos)

We know now how much crime there truly is on Aruba that is covered up.  All one has to do is read the Murder And Crime Thread.  For many many months we all worked on time lines and such trying to fit all the pieces together.  I could never get the rock scene to fit into the timeline unless the j2K had originally dumped Natalee there.  But now that I look back it prolly was a crime scene, but of someone else.  Oh and it sure wasn't a missing child from years before like we were told.  I never did buy that.  That was a fresh crime scene.  I just don't think it was Natalee.

[Magnolia]

I have read old threads tonight until my eyes hurt.

Most of the Range Rover tapes were made prior to Joran being re-arrested in Holland in November 2007
I think Joran was  re-arrested during the  RR tapings.  Before anything was definate about the Persistence.
It was while Joran was awaiting extradition from the NL that Dave announced that a ship was going
to Aruba for a search.  Mos said he didn't know what Dave would be searching for, but he was welcome to search.
Lazlo had said in early November at RU that Joran had been recorded by a friend.  It was assumed by many that
it was recorded by wiretap.  That was not the case.
Joran stayed on Aruba until after the New Year in 2008.

Here is an old article regarding new info.

Prosecutors said Wednesday that they had ordered the three men re-arrested and disclosed that they had new evidence, although officials declined to provide any details.

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, citing anonymous detectives in Aruba, reported Friday that the new evidence is derived from phone taps of conversations between Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes from earlier this year in which they contradict their earlier statements to police.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312710,00.html

At that time nobody knew what the new evidence was.  It was all speculation, thus the "anonymous detectives"
Even Renfro was on Fox news speculating what the evidence was.
The Range Rover tapes were never mentioned until after J2K had been released from the jail in December

[San]

Here's something else  that's been on my mind for a long time.

The rock scene ( Aru-bay videos)

We know now how much crime there truly is on Aruba that is covered up.  All one has to do is read the Murder And Crime Thread.  For many many months we all worked on time lines and such trying to fit all the pieces together.  I could never get the rock scene to fit into the timeline unless the j2K had originally dumped Natalee there.  But now that I look back it prolly was a crime scene, but of someone else.  Oh and it sure wasn't a missing child from years before like we were told.  I never did buy that.  That was a fresh crime scene.  I just don't think it was Natalee.

A lot of people have different opinions about the rock video and the so called missing video.  Me personally I just don't know what to think about that.  I definitely agree that it wasn't a missing child from years before.  That was a fresh crime scene.

[San]

I have read old threads tonight until my eyes hurt.

Most of the Range Rover tapes were made prior to Joran being re-arrested in Holland in November 2007
I think Joran was  re-arrested during the  RR tapings.  Before anything was definate about the Persistence.
It was while Joran was awaiting extradition from the NL that Dave announced that a ship was going
to Aruba for a search.  Mos said he didn't know what Dave would be searching for, but he was welcome to search.
Lazlo had said in early November at RU that Joran had been recorded by a friend.  It was assumed by many that
it was recorded by wiretap.  That was not the case.
Joran stayed on Aruba until after the New Year in 2008.

Here is an old article regarding new info.

Prosecutors said Wednesday that they had ordered the three men re-arrested and disclosed that they had new evidence, although officials declined to provide any details.

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, citing anonymous detectives in Aruba, reported Friday that the new evidence is derived from phone taps of conversations between Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes from earlier this year in which they contradict their earlier statements to police.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312710,00.html

At that time nobody knew what the new evidence was.  It was all speculation, thus the "anonymous detectives"
Even Renfro was on Fox news speculating what the evidence was.
The Range Rover tapes were never mentioned until after J2K had been released from the jail in December

I agree Magnolia.  No one knew what the evidence was at that time.  I believe we had heard wire taps or the word chatter.

I was just throwing the information out there for you to see.

[Tamikosmom]

I could be wrong but ... I believe that the Range Rover recordings began following Kalpoes and Joran release in December, 2007.

It is known that the fifth and final recording took place on January 29, 2008.  Two of the other recording dates from Patrick vander Eem's OVERBOARD were on January 13th and 15th.  Apparently ... Joran discusses with Patrick on one of the tapes was regarding the detainment and interrogations of December, 2007.

Janet

+++++

On the Record w/ Greta - February 8, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: How much tape do you have? How many minutes or hours do you think total?

DE VRIES: Oh, we have in total, I think, 20 hours. But quite a lot of the 20 hours is spent with man talk about football, girls and things like that. And a couple of hours, they were talking about Natalee's case.

VAN SUSTEREN: In terms of the 20 hours, that's over how many different days? I mean, is that one very long trip, or is it broken up into a number of trips?

DE VRIES: Yes, that's an important question, Greta. It's not just one conversation. It's not a slip of the tongue. We have been recording five days. So several moments, several days, and sometimes a week between it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html


Overboard by Patrick van der Eem

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2981.0

[Magnolia]

I have read old threads tonight until my eyes hurt.

Most of the Range Rover tapes were made prior to Joran being re-arrested in Holland in November 2007
I think Joran was  re-arrested during the  RR tapings.  Before anything was definate about the Persistence.
It was while Joran was awaiting extradition from the NL that Dave announced that a ship was going
to Aruba for a search.  Mos said he didn't know what Dave would be searching for, but he was welcome to search.
Lazlo had said in early November at RU that Joran had been recorded by a friend.  It was assumed by many that
it was recorded by wiretap.  That was not the case.
Joran stayed on Aruba until after the New Year in 2008.

Here is an old article regarding new info.

Prosecutors said Wednesday that they had ordered the three men re-arrested and disclosed that they had new evidence, although officials declined to provide any details.

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, citing anonymous detectives in Aruba, reported Friday that the new evidence is derived from phone taps of conversations between Van der Sloot and the Kalpoes from earlier this year in which they contradict their earlier statements to police.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312710,00.html

At that time nobody knew what the new evidence was.  It was all speculation, thus the "anonymous detectives"
Even Renfro was on Fox news speculating what the evidence was.
The Range Rover tapes were never mentioned until after J2K had been released from the jail in December

I agree Magnolia.  No one knew what the evidence was at that time.  I believe we had heard wire taps or the word chatter.

I was just throwing the information out there for you to see.

San, thank you for fixing my getting in your quote!!  I'm sorry.

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit

I contend that Kyle Kingman's own words clearly reveals three of the distractions that were established to take the focus off the trap/cage which was located by the Persistence following the visit from the dectective who was in the know.

1.  The false lead of January 1, 2008.
2.  The Range Rover confession tapes of January, 2008.
3.  The Pond search of January, 2008.

Janet

And it's all documented as an orchestrated conspiracy to cover-up.

Seems plausible to me. How does it get in front of an investigative body that can act on it?

I believe the Beth Holloway would be the best person to entrust any research to.  I would not trust ANY other person to do right by it.

Janet

[Magnolia]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

[Tamikosmom]

My heart breaks for Beth Holloway.  As Natalee's mother cries out in her book LOVING NATALEE ... "Who can we trust?"

Janet

++++++++
 
KYLE KINGMAN

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items.  The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap.  He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.  He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship ...

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


TIM TRAHAN

Holloway searchers need help
Thursday, February 28, 2008 | 8:21 PM

A relentless search Schafer and his team say will stop, if they don't get more funding.

"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."

The search of the rest of those targets will stop this week. For more information on how you can help,

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5988951


BETH HOLLOWAY

Dr. Phil - January 29, 2006

... If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=?id=&slide=3&null=null

BUMPED

Good Night All.

Janet

[wreck]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

[billb's daughter]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

[Keepthefaith]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

 

[billb's daughter]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

 

KTF...
You aren't planning on hitting me on my MonkeyCool Head with that hammer are you?
 

[wreck]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

I don't mind discussing anyone! But, I also think it is important to present an opinion without being adamant that one's opinion is the only correct one and that all others "just don't get it". There is not one regular poster here that I doubt their sincerity  - but there also not one poster here that I think has ALL the answers either (especially me).

[Keepthefaith]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

 

KTF...
You aren't planning on hitting me on my MonkeyCool Head with that hammer are you?
 

I should as i have Nate Kaeding and Antonio Gates on my fantasy team!Kaeding was great but i needed a touchdown and about 10 more yards outta Gates....Aaaaaaaaggggghhhhhhhh!

On a serious note.I agree.We are here for Justice for Natalee Holloway and wherever the truth takes us.Different opinions,views,angles is what will get us to Justice for a girl that was ripped from LIFE by a bunch of EVIL miscreants!Aruba,disinformation specialists,as well as American traitors better take note...WE'RE STILL HERE...UNTIL JUSTICE IS SERVED!

[Keepthefaith]

OK....I give.

Peter Devries is a horrible human being who is in cahoots with the Arubans.

Dave Holloway is a SOB

Tim Miller is a self centered money hungry creep.



I have had all that I can take.

See ya!

I get where you are coming from. These people you mentioned could have been duped -- but I just don't buy that they are corrupt or in on some dastardly plan.
Just remember,  we here at SM only know a fraction of what those people know --and we are just speculating.

Dear Monkeys....
We are here for Justice for Natalee......
We all have our own opinions about good, bad, and not so go guys....
I personally am not offended if someone I believe is good turns out to be less than I thought...or if someone I believe is bad turns out to be not so bad...
If it promotes dialog that gets us closer to the perps and Justice for Natalee...
I'm cool with that...
Keep trucking...we are getting warmer...

I don't mind discussing anyone! But, I also think it is important to present an opinion without being adamant that one's opinion is the only correct one and that all others "just don't get it". There is not one regular poster here that I doubt their sincerity  - but there also not one poster here that I think has ALL the answers either (especially me).

I don't have all of them either...

[Tamikosmom]

I have gone to my profile and ... read my posts.  I am not undermining the opinion of anybody.  I am only stating my own.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

The Dutch police were aware early on of the secret recording plan of Patrick van der Eem and Peter Devries.  The recordings commenced sometime following the December, 2007 release of Joran, Deepak and Satish from detention.

Janet

++++++++


Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eem Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
February 4, 2008

Setback

But once the trap was set -- once de Vries had set van der Eem up with a brand new Range Rover tricked out with three hidden cameras, audio recording devices and a Lowjack-like tracking system, de Vries and van der Eem learned that their target had been re-arrested and was back in custody of the Aruba authorities.

"Three days before I was getting my car, he was gone,'' van der Eem said. "Oh, and it was the most … pain in my life. Peter [de Vries], me…everybody was devastated."

But the arrest eventually worked in their favor: Once a judge ordered van der Sloot released for lack of evidence and prosecutors acknowledged they would close the case, van der Eem said he realized he had a new opportunity on his hands.



Wednesday, February 06, 2008
Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.   Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/