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Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10
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Topic: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10 (Read 194399 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Rob
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #520 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:23:07 AM »
One other point from the respondent's memorandum.
IIRC - there was a part that included Terri's lawyer stating that Terri would take the 5th if called to the stand. First-off, that's her right. I know some don't like it when a child is missing, but it is her right. Just as it is her right to retain the counsel of her choice. It's everyone's right, unless you are John Gotti and Bruce Cutler takes the government apart three times in a row - then the government says that Cutler is a Counseliere, and the attorney of choice is removed.
Terri's attorney making it known that she will follow his advice dose not mean that she is complicit in a crime against Kyron, just that it is the government's job to PROVE their case and not Terri's responsibility to pin herself in a corner or convict herself with questions that she can not answer, may have no knowledge of the correct answers, or may be used a legal pawn.
I think deep down, everyone respects that.
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #521 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:26:44 AM »
Quote from: Rob on October 10, 2010, 11:23:07 AM
One other point from the respondent's memorandum.
IIRC - there was a part that included Terri's lawyer stating that Terri would take the 5th if called to the stand. First-off, that's her right. I know some don't like it when a child is missing, but it is her right. Just as it is her right to retain the counsel of her choice. It's everyone's right, unless you are John Gotti and Bruce Cutler takes the government apart three times in a row - then the government says that Cutler is a Counseliere, and the attorney of choice is removed.
Terri's attorney making it known that she will follow his advice dose not mean that she is complicit in a crime against Kyron, just that it is the government's job to PROVE their case and not Terri's responsibility to pin herself in a corner or convict herself with questions that she can not answer, may have no knowledge of the correct answers, or may be used a legal pawn.
I think deep down, everyone respects that.
I know that I respect that, respect the judicial system, and respect the right for a person to retain counsel and to listen to the attorney. Can't change the laws because people don't like how things are, these are all of our rights, and would never want to see them taken away.
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Itaryl Moosee
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #522 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:30:03 AM »
Quote from: mchenry on October 10, 2010, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: sharon on October 10, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: klaasend on October 09, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
Desi
- FWIW, I agree with you
Me, too. fwiw
And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?
It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.
That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.
If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.
I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?
According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be
Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.
I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.
In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.
That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.
Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.
The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.
LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.
Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.
A lot.
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Rob
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #523 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:32:42 AM »
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 11:30:03 AM
Quote from: mchenry on October 10, 2010, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: sharon on October 10, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: klaasend on October 09, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
Desi
- FWIW, I agree with you
Me, too. fwiw
And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?
It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.
That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.
If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.
I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?
According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be
Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.
I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.
In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.
That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.
Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.
The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.
LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.
Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.
A lot.
I LIKE this post. A L O T
Clever.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
mchenry
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #524 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:34:46 AM »
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 11:30:03 AM
Quote from: mchenry on October 10, 2010, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: sharon on October 10, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: klaasend on October 09, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
Desi
- FWIW, I agree with you
Me, too. fwiw
And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?
It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.
That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.
If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.
I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?
According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be
Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.
I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.
In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.
That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.
Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.
The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.
LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.
Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.
A lot.
Itaryl moose, Thank you so much for your response. Now I finally understand why the Johnny Gosch kidnapping was never solved!
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sharon
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3216
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #525 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:37:06 AM »
Quote from: mchenry on October 10, 2010, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: sharon on October 10, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: klaasend on October 09, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
Desi
- FWIW, I agree with you
Me, too. fwiw
And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?
It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.
That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.
If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.
I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?
According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be
Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.
I have trouble understanding all the legal, too.
If Kaine wants to show that TH endangers his children -- as divorce grounds -- why wouldn't discovery about the 350k be relevant in the divorce case?
Endangerment would also apply for custody arguments -- one would think.
But I'm not a lawyer.
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
sharon
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #526 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:38:54 AM »
Thanks Itaryl.
Legal loopholes while our innocent children continue to disappear
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
Rob
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #527 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:39:44 AM »
Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.
The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.
The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.
I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.
The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.
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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Rob
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #528 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:45:21 AM »
I guess if the government's case ( alleged case ) against Terri was strong, they wouldn't need a divorce court to move it along.
Nor would they need her to reveal something they are unaware of.
- j m o -
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.
+++
~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
no rose colored glasses
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #529 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:45:31 AM »
Quote from: Rob on October 10, 2010, 11:39:44 AM
Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.
The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.
The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.
I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.
The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.
That is where my questions comes in, these are two separate cases, so during the divorce proceedings how could you possibly bring up child endangerment, since Terri took care of the children and Kaine was alright with her taking care of the kids? This is certainly a very unique divorce and am interested how this all turns out.
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Puzzler
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #530 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:45:31 AM »
Quote from: Claycat on October 10, 2010, 11:02:53 AM
No Rose, I think that's when the mayor was trying to find out the identity of the man in Kyron's science project photo.
Can anyone succiently tell me what the mayor/tweet/plaid shirt man is all about? I can't seem to get a handle on it. Or maybe just tell me if the plaid shirt guy is one we should being interested in or not? TIA
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Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.
klaasend
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #531 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:45:37 AM »
Quote from: Rob on October 10, 2010, 11:39:44 AM
Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.
The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.
The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.
I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.
The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.
One absolutely did cause the other IMO
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Gypsy DD
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #532 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:46:35 AM »
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: sharon on October 10, 2010, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: klaasend on October 09, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
Desi
- FWIW, I agree with you
Me, too. fwiw
And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?
It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.
That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.
If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.
I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?
According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be
If it is a gift or a loan..then she would owe the taxes on that money.
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"Commit a crime and the world is made of glass."
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no rose colored glasses
Monkey Mega Star
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #533 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:46:49 AM »
Quote from: Puzzler on October 10, 2010, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: Claycat on October 10, 2010, 11:02:53 AM
No Rose, I think that's when the mayor was trying to find out the identity of the man in Kyron's science project photo.
Can anyone succiently tell me what the mayor/tweet/plaid shirt man is all about? I can't seem to get a handle on it. Or maybe just tell me if the plaid shirt guy is one we should being interested in or not? TIA
I sure would like to know, but I thought the plaid shirt guy was not a suspect, was he not just a father at the fair?
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Itaryl Moosee
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #534 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:47:08 AM »
Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.
But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.
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no rose colored glasses
Monkey Mega Star
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Zoe you will always be in my heart and soul
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #535 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:50:06 AM »
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 11:47:08 AM
Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.
But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.
I totally agree, and yes at times it appears that the laws do help the wrong person, but I still don't want to see our laws and rights trampled on. I can get angry at times when I see how things work out in a court of law, but when the judge or jury has spoken, so be it.
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mchenry
Scared Monkey
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #536 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:53:41 AM »
Quote from: Itaryl Moosee on October 10, 2010, 11:47:08 AM
Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.
But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.
Itaryl Moose, I understand but it saddens me when a criminal has more rights than our precious children.
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hellokitty
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #537 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:53:57 AM »
I think with these discussions on here about the divorce, it has been made abundantly clear by everyone that Terri has something to hide that is criminal. And it's not shoplifting.
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Rob
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #538 on:
October 10, 2010, 11:56:32 AM »
Quote from: klaasend on October 10, 2010, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: Rob on October 10, 2010, 11:39:44 AM
Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.
The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.
The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.
I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.
The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.
One absolutely did cause the other IMO
I concur. However, what evidence cause the MFH investigation / sting. That would need to be revealed and COULD PLACE the government is a compromising situation. There were no arrests, and Terri call the police. It's tricky.
If the government has to admit they had no evidence, or evidence to the contrary and took the word of an "illegal" alien, or it is revealed that RS has harassed Terri - that case goes out the window along with all their credibility.
It's a dangerous legal situation - in my opinion.
If there is truly evidence in the MFH plot - the police may have acted inappropriately in NOT arresting her, charging her, and trying her.
If they had any of that - they would have moved on an arrest - not a sting.
in my opinion.
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hellokitty
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Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 -
«
Reply #539 on:
October 10, 2010, 12:02:39 PM »
re the MFH. I had a neighbor who did that. The guy who was asked to do the deed went to LE . LE wired him and they got the goods on my neighbor. Until that point, all it was was an interesting story to LE. Same with TH. No goods on her; consequently no arrest.
Of course Kaine wants to know where the $350,000 came from. He said that she was spending money like water. What if she was stashing money over the years and it in fact is partially his. I would want my $175,000 back. No, I would not want to gift it to her.
If Terri has done nothing, what's the big deal about incriminating herself? Obviously, she has something that she has done that is incriminating and criminal.
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Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10
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Virginia Area Missing and Murdered - possible connections
-----------------------------
=> Morgan Dana Harrington, 20yrs missing VA Tech 10/17/09(BODY FOUND)
=> Hannah Elizabeth Graham missing since 9/13/14 Charlottesville, VA
=> Alexis Murphy, missing since 8/3/13 Charlottesville, VA
=> Samantha Ann Clarke 19yrs. old Orange Va. Last seen 09/13/10
=> Dashad Sage Smith missing since 11/20/12 Charlottesville, VA
=> Cassandra Morton 23, Lynchburg, missing 10/10/09 body found 11/29/09
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High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
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=> Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
=> Trial of George Zimmerman - 2nd Degree Murder of 17yr old Trayvon Martin
=> Scott Peterson Appeal of Murder Conviction
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Missing, Exploited and True Crime
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=> Missing Exploited and True Crime
===> Missing Persons Forum
=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
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