Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[no rose colored glasses]

The huge question is who really is this Rudy Sanchez and where is he now.

[Puzzler]

Good morning, monkeys.  Just read over all the good posts written since yesterday’s court hearing.  Can’t resist putting in my 2 cents worth – sorry it’s so long.

Looking back, IMO, it seems that LE talked with Kaine about the MFH plot while Terri was taking a LDT for a specific reason.  LE planned the timing so that it would have maximum effect, which it did, and Kaine left the house with Kiara.  I think LE’s timing was planned during a very emotional time for Terri (police interviews, LDT’s, Kaine leaving, taking Kiara) to try to get Terri to breakdown under all the pressure and tell them where Kyron is. 

LE’s plan backfired. 

It also seems to me, that Kaine and Terri were rapidly heading for divorce before Kyron went missing.  With LE’s trying to put all the pressure to bear on Terri, it gave Kaine the impetus to go ahead and file for divorce – and it seems that Terri is fine with getting a divorce, too. 

Long about now, I would love to know what the December 26, 2009, 911-call was about.  Can’t help but think about the fact that James was gone from the Horman home the very next month.  IMO, I think the 9ll-call and James leaving the home could be connected.  And, obviously, Terri’s divorce attorney thinks something about that 911-call is important with respect to the divorce.

LE tracked down Rudy Sanchez through Terri’s phone records.  Rudy, a known liar by virtue of being in the U.S. illegally and information coming out during the court hearing  yesterday that the name Rudy Sanchez is an alias, told LE about a MFH plot, which LE believed and set up a sting operation in which to try and catch Terri.

LE’s plan backfired – once again.

IMO, the sting operation was devised because within the text messages between Rudy and Terri, there is noting to implicate the MFH plot.  If there were that concrete evidence, LE would have already arrested Terri for the MFH plot and used that as even more pressure to try to get Terri to tell where Kyron is.

Okay…let’s face it…Terri took a LDT, and we know the part where she came across as deceptive was with respect to “lifestyle”.  That means any questions she may have been asked, such as: Do you know what happened to Kyron? Do you know where Kyron is? Do you know who has Kyron? Did you kill Kyron? Did you take Kyron from the school? Do you have Kyron stashed somewhere?  - and surely a number of these questions were asked – these questions she answered with no deception noted.  If Terri had answered any one of those questions with deception, IMO, we would know that…just like we know that she answered question(s) about lifestyle with noted deception. 

IMO, it’s looking more and more like RS may heavily be involved with Kyron going missing, either directly or by his associates.  Obviously, LE thinks so, too, because we learned in court yesterday that Terri’s attorneys have been denied RS’s contact information by the DA.  If RS is heavily involved, IMO, it wasn’t a conspiracy between RS and Terri, because the two of them are obviously at odds with each other, which makes me suspicious that extreme anger and/or revenge is in play.  If it’s as simple as RS is upset with Terri for spurning his sexual advances, the – yes – this could be sexually motivated after all.

BBM.  With all respect Puzzler we do not know which questions were problematic for TH. We've read unsubstantiated comments made in response to various news articles and blogs. Some of us have assumed which questions have involved deception. I believe Terri is up to her eyeballs in this. I maintain she would not be worried about self incrimination and pleading the fifth (remarks by her attorney) if she were innocent in the disappearance of Kyron. That said, I agree that James moving to Roseburg is entirely related to this situation regardless of the impetus.

nicubird, I'm pretty sure it was Blink that let us in on the "lifestyle" questions on the LDT that Terri took were the problematic questions. 

[fatcatlurker]

I again have to say I find it very hard to believe they would of been asking Terri Horman Lifestyle questions on her first LDT.....Why would they?

They get a call on a missing child - why ask that type of question? 

Terri is the one who went back after her failed/deceptive LDT and spewed the information about it to all that would listen including the LE stationed at the house according to Kaine and family. 

I just feel pretty sure they would not have been asking her about her Lifestyle on the initial LDT she failed/deceptive.  JMO.

[no rose colored glasses]

I would have no idea what questions they would ask a person the first time around on a lie detector test, I personally find them rather useless, but what kind of lifestyle questions would they ask anyway. Do you mean like about the marriage and friends and questions like that?

[fatcatlurker]

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

[Puzzler]

I again have to say I find it very hard to believe they would of been asking Terri Horman Lifestyle questions on her first LDT.....Why would they?

They get a call on a missing child - why ask that type of question? 

Terri is the one who went back after her failed/deceptive LDT and spewed the information about it to all that would listen including the LE stationed at the house according to Kaine and family. 

I just feel pretty sure they would not have been asking her about her Lifestyle on the initial LDT she failed/deceptive.  JMO.

FCL - this might help:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mGhu75rjwqUJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Ftopic%3D8661.840+Blink+on+Crime,+Terri's+LDT,+lifestyle+questions&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Reply #850 on: October 07, 2010, 05:23:59 AM

Thanks for the video/radio show:

http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?ref=blinkoncrime.com&key=453929e9

Dana compares Terri’s body language and facial expressions as:

 Dirty as your Grandpa's underwear~  Yuck!   That's just nasty.

Blink states:
Terri was deceptive on questions about lifestyle-

Questions about the Landscaper is when she stopped the interview/LDT and
invoked her right to counsel

Blink also stated she expected an arrest back in July for either Terri or RS.
This has not come to pass.

Blink expains there are
3 Different grand juries in Multnomah County:

1: Violence: against person
2: Property: vandalisim
3: Drugs

They also can put together a High Profile Grand Jury.

Blink states she believes these were Kyron's glasses as
the FBI made a picture of Kyron withoout his glasses, Blink says she believes there's a
"Fair chance that he's not wearing them" thus the picture

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

The MFH has never made sense to me either.

[nicubird]

Good morning, monkeys.  Just read over all the good posts written since yesterday’s court hearing.  Can’t resist putting in my 2 cents worth – sorry it’s so long.

Looking back, IMO, it seems that LE talked with Kaine about the MFH plot while Terri was taking a LDT for a specific reason.  LE planned the timing so that it would have maximum effect, which it did, and Kaine left the house with Kiara.  I think LE’s timing was planned during a very emotional time for Terri (police interviews, LDT’s, Kaine leaving, taking Kiara) to try to get Terri to breakdown under all the pressure and tell them where Kyron is. 

LE’s plan backfired. 

It also seems to me, that Kaine and Terri were rapidly heading for divorce before Kyron went missing.  With LE’s trying to put all the pressure to bear on Terri, it gave Kaine the impetus to go ahead and file for divorce – and it seems that Terri is fine with getting a divorce, too. 

Long about now, I would love to know what the December 26, 2009, 911-call was about.  Can’t help but think about the fact that James was gone from the Horman home the very next month.  IMO, I think the 9ll-call and James leaving the home could be connected.  And, obviously, Terri’s divorce attorney thinks something about that 911-call is important with respect to the divorce.

LE tracked down Rudy Sanchez through Terri’s phone records.  Rudy, a known liar by virtue of being in the U.S. illegally and information coming out during the court hearing  yesterday that the name Rudy Sanchez is an alias, told LE about a MFH plot, which LE believed and set up a sting operation in which to try and catch Terri.

LE’s plan backfired – once again.

IMO, the sting operation was devised because within the text messages between Rudy and Terri, there is noting to implicate the MFH plot.  If there were that concrete evidence, LE would have already arrested Terri for the MFH plot and used that as even more pressure to try to get Terri to tell where Kyron is.

Okay…let’s face it…Terri took a LDT, and we know the part where she came across as deceptive was with respect to “lifestyle”.  That means any questions she may have been asked, such as: Do you know what happened to Kyron? Do you know where Kyron is? Do you know who has Kyron? Did you kill Kyron? Did you take Kyron from the school? Do you have Kyron stashed somewhere?  - and surely a number of these questions were asked – these questions she answered with no deception noted.  If Terri had answered any one of those questions with deception, IMO, we would know that…just like we know that she answered question(s) about lifestyle with noted deception. 

IMO, it’s looking more and more like RS may heavily be involved with Kyron going missing, either directly or by his associates.  Obviously, LE thinks so, too, because we learned in court yesterday that Terri’s attorneys have been denied RS’s contact information by the DA.  If RS is heavily involved, IMO, it wasn’t a conspiracy between RS and Terri, because the two of them are obviously at odds with each other, which makes me suspicious that extreme anger and/or revenge is in play.  If it’s as simple as RS is upset with Terri for spurning his sexual advances, the – yes – this could be sexually motivated after all.

BBM.  With all respect Puzzler we do not know which questions were problematic for TH. We've read unsubstantiated comments made in response to various news articles and blogs. Some of us have assumed which questions have involved deception. I believe Terri is up to her eyeballs in this. I maintain she would not be worried about self incrimination and pleading the fifth (remarks by her attorney) if she were innocent in the disappearance of Kyron. That said, I agree that James moving to Roseburg is entirely related to this situation regardless of the impetus.

nicubird, I'm pretty sure it was Blink that let us in on the "lifestyle" questions on the LDT that Terri took were the problematic questions. 

Thanks for the clarification. I'll look for a link. Even if those were the questions failed on the LDT (and until I look at Blink's statement I do not concede that this is a Blink Fact and not a Blink Theory), it doesn't explain the worry for self incrimination. I agree with you on many things, but Terri's innocence in this matter is not one of them. I believe she was instrumental in Kyron's disappearance; and I believe her involvement is purposeful and not simply inadvertent.

Puzzler, thank you for your many thought provoking posts. I appreciate the opportunity to look at this from angles that I would not have otherwise considered.

[jill]

my heart was in my throat yesterday when Bunch started threatening for visitation, and I realized how I have taken for granted Kiara's safety and well-being since I first heard of events on June 26.

I realized yesterday that all of that could change in the blink of an eye and Kaine could be forced to hand Kiara over to Terri.

Even supervised visitation is, imo, unacceptable at this time.

I'm sick to my stomach at Bunch's statement that James is living with his mother.  I am hoping that Terri's parents are there with them.

[no rose colored glasses]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

[Puzzler]

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

Consider this:  RS "didn't" bring attention to himself.  Terri broght attention to him via the 911 call. That's the reason RS became furious with Terri - that she called LE on him and he is in the country illegally. 

Consider this:  the MFH plot didn't happen.  When Kyron went missing, RS realized that LE would eventually be at his door step again because he had text messages with Terri.  With Terri being a person close to Kyron, RS would think that LE would check her phone messages and find his number there.  RS would think that LE would track down all the people that Terri has been involved with, so he was ready for them, and had the MFH plot ready.

Remember RS does not want LE at his door.  It is not good for him or any of his associates who may also be in the US illegally.

RS is already angry with Terri and then became furious when she called 911.

Have you every heard of the big paddle effect?

When you're in trouble - take out the big paddle and splat it down in a pile of accusation toward someone else - everyone else is so busy trying to clean the splat off themselves, you are totally forgotton in the chaos.

I think RS brought out the big paddle and splat it down on a pile of "MFH".

[fatcatlurker]

I again have to say I find it very hard to believe they would of been asking Terri Horman Lifestyle questions on her first LDT.....Why would they?

They get a call on a missing child - why ask that type of question? 

Terri is the one who went back after her failed/deceptive LDT and spewed the information about it to all that would listen including the LE stationed at the house according to Kaine and family. 

I just feel pretty sure they would not have been asking her about her Lifestyle on the initial LDT she failed/deceptive.  JMO.

FCL - this might help:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mGhu75rjwqUJ:scaredmonkeys.net/index.php%3Ftopic%3D8661.840+Blink+on+Crime,+Terri's+LDT,+lifestyle+questions&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Reply #850 on: October 07, 2010, 05:23:59 AM

Thanks for the video/radio show:

http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?ref=blinkoncrime.com&key=453929e9

Dana compares Terri’s body language and facial expressions as:

 Dirty as your Grandpa's underwear~  Yuck!   That's just nasty.

Blink states:
Terri was deceptive on questions about lifestyle-

Questions about the Landscaper is when she stopped the interview/LDT and
invoked her right to counsel

Blink also stated she expected an arrest back in July for either Terri or RS.
This has not come to pass.

Blink expains there are
3 Different grand juries in Multnomah County:

1: Violence: against person
2: Property: vandalisim
3: Drugs

They also can put together a High Profile Grand Jury.

Blink states she believes these were Kyron's glasses as
the FBI made a picture of Kyron withoout his glasses, Blink says she believes there's a
"Fair chance that he's not wearing them" thus the picture

So this would be the 2nd LDT?  That would make more sense to me.  I know per Blink the one she walked on (2nd or 3rd) was right before or after the MFH sting.


And I believe Blink on the Glasses.  It was hinky the way it came out later and LE should of done a better job on that one.  But for all we know the glasses may have been found in the school parking lot and that is why they know he left the school.  JMO.

[jill]

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

imo, Terris is involved right to the top of her 90's era hair-do in the MFH.

I believe she planned it, tried to implement it, failed with regards to Kaine - so went for Kyron instead.

[seemeatthebeach]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I didn't read that info either, NoRose....

Does anyone have a link to an article or document where Bunch says this?

TIA

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't get it (Blink's theory)  unless as the latest rumor goes; 

The "Landscaper" was informant/undercover and the LE already knew about a supposed/failed MFH plot by Terri and were waiting for her next one.

Otherwise why would a "Illegal" bring attention to himself and his family?  Why would LE knowing - let it go on.  Could it have been 2 MFH plots?  One failed, one took?

This MFH plot just does not add up or make sense to me.  Maybe it's just me.  I still think Terri and Terri only had time and opportunity besides "MOTIVE" to commit this crime.  JMO.

Consider this:  RS "didn't" bring attention to himself.  Terri broght attention to him via the 911 call. That's the reason RS became furious with Terri - that she called LE on him and he is in the country illegally. 

Consider this:  the MFH plot didn't happen.  When Kyron went missing, RS realized that LE would eventually be at his door step again because he had text messages with Terri.  With Terri being a person close to Kyron, RS would think that LE would check her phone messages and find his number there.  RS would think that LE would track down all the people that Terri has been involved with, so he was ready for them, and had the MFH plot ready.

Remember RS does not want LE at his door.  It is not good for him or any of his associates who may also be in the US illegally.

RS is already angry with Terri and then became furious when she called 911.

Have you every heard of the big paddle effect?

When you're in trouble - take out the big paddle and splat it down in a pile of accusation toward someone else - everyone else is so busy trying to clean the splat off themselves, you are totally forgotton in the chaos.

I think RS brought out the big paddle and splat it down on a pile of "MFH".

I can't argue with this at all. But what is very upsetting to me, is who exactly is this Rudy Sanchez? If that isn't his real name then what is his real name? For all anyone knows this person could be a criminal, sure hope the police know who exactly this guy is, and I'm sure they must.

[jill]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I missed it to, first time around:

""... During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother. ..."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

[no rose colored glasses]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I didn't read that info either, NoRose....

Does anyone have a link to an article or document where Bunch says this?

TIA

I sure would like to see it also, granted I skim stuff at times but think that would have jumped out at me.

[fatcatlurker]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I missed it to, first time around:

""... During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother. ..."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Wow...I do not like this either.  JMO.

[no rose colored glasses]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I missed it to, first time around:

""... During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother. ..."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Thank-you

[jill]

With all the reading, I must have missed that James was living with his mother.

I missed it to, first time around:

""... During the hearing, Bunch corrected Rackner, who suggested that Terri Horman's son James was living with his father. No, Bunch said flatly, James is living with his mother. ..."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

Wow...I do not like this either.  JMO.

I know, right?

I feel for James - Terri has been his constant for the most part.  He really probably doesn't have much choice.