Natalee Case Discussion #836 6/8/10 - 6/10/10

[msmarple]

Finally caught up again. Another long early a.m. post.

* * *
a quote that I won’t attribute:

“< snip > I would say that too if it happened in the USA, but recall from Aruba, they even show pictures of people hanging, etc.  < snipped as being irrelevant to the entire topic, which is Natalee Holloway and now, Stephany Flores. >  I am told we (Americans) are more naive about death, but I think it is third-worlders that are gruesome.”

The photo referenced above was from the National Enquirer, not a Peru or Aruba or third-wordly place. (And doesn’t, by the way, look a bit like the crime scene description. Nor does the photo that kermit posted, which is from 24 Horas, and I think might be a re-enactment. But who knows whether the crime scene description we’ve seen, a la NG, is right.

Nearly all of the coverage we're getting is confused, contradictory, and careless. I love me some Peru law enforcement, but I expect some source palms are being greased, resulting in all sorts of embellishments. 

* * *
Janet – cell phone “app” – application.  (If no one has responded.) In this sense, a feature that you can apply to your cell phone.

* * *
Lifesong – nice work on the timeline. I have one too (my mind always works that way – I still have mine from the early days on Aruba). I will try to check whether I have anything that you don’t. (I did notice that you’ve been checking out elcomercio.com.pe too!)

* * *
CBB – I have been meaning to thank you for the nice image with Natalee and Stephany.

* * *
MsVada – The laptop he was carrying doesn’t resemble the one we saw him using by the pool in Aruba. But that might have been someone else’s, and he probably has replaced it anyway. (klaas subsequently posted the pool laptop pix.) Joran’s probably been through several laptops since 2005.

I don’t think there’s incriminating info about Natalee actually on the computer (although maybe something re. the extortion/fraud transactions, because that’s so recent). I think anything about Natalee is stored separately somewhere.

* * *
Re. Greta – I agree with Port Valerie (nice post). But Greta is definitely pro-Joran and pro-Aruba. In the beginning (Summer 2005) it was a good faith effort on her part. She could not have foreseen the terrible twists and turns - none of us did – and there were those ratings. Then Katrina took over the news cycle, Greta drank the koolaid, was inclined to believe him, and thus distanced herself from Beth. Now, she’s all about deflecting blame from Aruba, and from herself - for that statement, and for paid interviews with him (I don’t care what kind of “fees” she calls it).

Anyone who has paid Joran to talk commercially has contributed to his Natalee career, shown callous disrespect for her family, and basically tortured them (which Joran thrives on).

* * *
I do fondly recall Greta’s and Beth’s “Return to Aruba” because of the empty police station - doors wide open (and this after a police station there had been robbed). To compare those people to The Keystone Cops is an insult to The Keystone Cops.

* * *
I also agree that someone on Aruba tipped off Joran about the sting. However, I think Joran planned all along to leave the country as soon as he got the funds, because he knew that the information he was providing was false, or at the very least not verifiable. Bad goods for good money. The difference the tip-off might have made, was that his parting from Aruba might have been seen as his final one. (Inferred from the May 14 Facebook postings by Anita and Julia.)

* * *
We are wondering how much money Joran had when his flight began. He traveled some 2500 miles, much of it by taxi. (I swear I did see somewhere that he took a flight somewhere, probably within Chile.) I hope someone can put together his route, and how much he paid for his travels. He was on the lam for four nights.

* * *
That under-age gambling in Aruba (“Free Tournament” my foot, Anita) – Well, I guess if one turns out to be a gambling addict, it almost doesn’t matter at what age it starts. In a way, this was Joran’s downfall. He should never have been in the Holiday Inn (or any) casino in 2005. (Did we hear that he had a $5,000 line of credit at the casinos in Aruba, when he was still in high school?)

Paulus may have come to realize that Joran had a gambling problem, and tried to stipulate certain things in his will. With him gone, Anita may have put her foot down about supporting this expense. Much speculation here, but my point (and I do have one) is that I was furious back then about local, under-aged kids trolling those casinos and bars. Sheesh. Just because you live on one happy island, doesn’t mean the kids have the run of the place. 

Onward. Joran apparently gambled and drugged away $25,000 within a couple of weeks in May 2010, which brought him to desperation in Lima, Peru. In his seedy hotel room, he beat a young woman to death for a small fraction of that amount, and had to flee without his passport (which he probably cherished, not only for its implied mobility, but as a souvenir of his extensive, youthful journeys). He had hit rock bottom, and he knew it.

* * *
Do we know whether the belongings “left in his hotel” in Chile were ever retrieved? I know it has been said that there was blood on some clothing, but what I read didn’t specifically say where this clothing was. The video of him unpacking the back pack doesn’t seem to show clothing.

Also, the “taxi brothers” who drove him to the border said that he had a ruck sack and two suitcases. But he left the Hotel Tac with only one suitcase (duffle bag) and the back pack.

* * *
I believe the charges will be premeditated robbery resulting in a savage murder (or however they word it, but each of those terms represent a degree of sentencing severity – as severe as possible).

* * *
I can’t recall ever feeling so benevolently toward prison inmates as I do about those who soon will be sharing Joran’s company.

But I suspect - sufficient money in his “inmate fund” will mitigate some hardships. Plus, physically, he towers over most if not all of the other inmates, he can be intimidating, and that violent temper is always there. If he makes it through the first week, he will be able to create a livable environment for himself -- although 180-degrees opposite the lifestyle to which he is accustomed.

And he will be a financial drain on Anita for the rest of her life. For this, of course, she will blame Beth.

[nimrod]

Finally caught up again. Another long early a.m. post.

* * *
a quote that I won’t attribute:

“< snip > I would say that too if it happened in the USA, but recall from Aruba, they even show pictures of people hanging, etc.  < snipped as being irrelevant to the entire topic, which is Natalee Holloway and now, Stephany Flores. >  I am told we (Americans) are more naive about death, but I think it is third-worlders that are gruesome.”

The photo referenced above was from the National Enquirer, not a Peru or Aruba or third-wordly place. (And doesn’t, by the way, look a bit like the crime scene description. Nor does the photo that kermit posted, which is from 24 Horas, and I think might be a re-enactment. But who knows whether the crime scene description we’ve seen, a la NG, is right.

Nearly all of the coverage we're getting is confused, contradictory, and careless. I love me some Peru law enforcement, but I expect some source palms are being greased, resulting in all sorts of embellishments. 

* * *
Janet – cell phone “app” – application.  (If no one has responded.) In this sense, a feature that you can apply to your cell phone.

* * *
Lifesong – nice work on the timeline. I have one too (my mind always works that way – I still have mine from the early days on Aruba). I will try to check whether I have anything that you don’t. (I did notice that you’ve been checking out elcomercio.com.pe too!)

* * *
CBB – I have been meaning to thank you for the nice image with Natalee and Stephany.

* * *
MsVada – The laptop he was carrying doesn’t resemble the one we saw him using by the pool in Aruba. But that might have been someone else’s, and he probably has replaced it anyway. (klaas subsequently posted the pool laptop pix.) Joran’s probably been through several laptops since 2005.

I don’t think there’s incriminating info about Natalee actually on the computer (although maybe something re. the extortion/fraud transactions, because that’s so recent). I think anything about Natalee is stored separately somewhere.

* * *
Re. Greta – I agree with Port Valerie (nice post). But Greta is definitely pro-Joran and pro-Aruba. In the beginning (Summer 2005) it was a good faith effort on her part. She could not have foreseen the terrible twists and turns - none of us did – and there were those ratings. Then Katrina took over the news cycle, Greta drank the koolaid, was inclined to believe him, and thus distanced herself from Beth. Now, she’s all about deflecting blame from Aruba, and from herself - for that statement, and for paid interviews with him (I don’t care what kind of “fees” she calls it).

Anyone who has paid Joran to talk commercially has contributed to his Natalee career, shown callous disrespect for her family, and basically tortured them (which Joran thrives on).

* * *
I do fondly recall Greta’s and Beth’s “Return to Aruba” because of the empty police station - doors wide open (and this after a police station there had been robbed). To compare those people to The Keystone Cops is an insult to The Keystone Cops.

* * *
I also agree that someone on Aruba tipped off Joran about the sting. However, I think Joran planned all along to leave the country as soon as he got the funds, because he knew that the information he was providing was false, or at the very least not verifiable. Bad goods for good money. The difference the tip-off might have made, was that his parting from Aruba might have been seen as his final one. (Inferred from the May 14 Facebook postings by Anita and Julia.)

* * *
We are wondering how much money Joran had when his flight began. He traveled some 2500 miles, much of it by taxi. (I swear I did see somewhere that he took a flight somewhere, probably within Chile.) I hope someone can put together his route, and how much he paid for his travels. He was on the lam for four nights.

* * *
That under-age gambling in Aruba (“Free Tournament” my foot, Anita) – Well, I guess if one turns out to be a gambling addict, it almost doesn’t matter at what age it starts. In a way, this was Joran’s downfall. He should never have been in the Holiday Inn (or any) casino in 2005. (Did we hear that he had a $5,000 line of credit at the casinos in Aruba, when he was still in high school?)

Paulus may have come to realize that Joran had a gambling problem, and tried to stipulate certain things in his will. With him gone, Anita may have put her foot down about supporting this expense. Much speculation here, but my point (and I do have one) is that I was furious back then about local, under-aged kids trolling those casinos and bars. Sheesh. Just because you live on one happy island, doesn’t mean the kids have the run of the place. 

Onward. Joran apparently gambled and drugged away $25,000 within a couple of weeks in May 2010, which brought him to desperation in Lima, Peru. In his seedy hotel room, he beat a young woman to death for a small fraction of that amount, and had to flee without his passport (which he probably cherished, not only for its implied mobility, but as a souvenir of his extensive, youthful journeys). He had hit rock bottom, and he knew it.

* * *
Do we know whether the belongings “left in his hotel” in Chile were ever retrieved? I know it has been said that there was blood on some clothing, but what I read didn’t specifically say where this clothing was. The video of him unpacking the back pack doesn’t seem to show clothing.

Also, the “taxi brothers” who drove him to the border said that he had a ruck sack and two suitcases. But he left the Hotel Tac with only one suitcase (duffle bag) and the back pack.

* * *
I believe the charges will be premeditated robbery resulting in a savage murder (or however they word it, but each of those terms represent a degree of sentencing severity – as severe as possible).

* * *
I can’t recall ever feeling so benevolently toward prison inmates as I do about those who soon will be sharing Joran’s company.

But I suspect - sufficient money in his “inmate fund” will mitigate some hardships. Plus, physically, he towers over most if not all of the other inmates, he can be intimidating, and that violent temper is always there. If he makes it through the first week, he will be able to create a livable environment for himself -- although 180-degrees opposite the lifestyle to which he is accustomed.

And he will be a financial drain on Anita for the rest of her life. For this, of course, she will blame Beth.

Excellent post.

[msmarple]

Thank you nimrod. I don't usually blather on so long, but reading, much less posting, is difficult these days, as we all know. With my schedule, I seem to only get one shot at posting.

texasmom - Are you keeping your eyes on Aruba?

klaas - Meant to thank you and the "unknown monkey" for the court case update. I do wonder what's next?

[BUCKSHOT]

What was Joran's college major?

He CLAIMS Business???? Has anybody seen a school he finished? ( less hs )

He put it on a dating service profile - is where I picked that up.

smoochies dot com errrr uh  something, I forget.

Interesting.  Thank goodness he didn't come to the US for college.  His brother did, however.  I feel sorry for the brother.

Joran is trying to major in CRIMINOLOGY.
He commits the crimes and everyone else analyzes them.
He is the case study. He has recently failed the class (and the rest of his life).

[msmarple]

I think there is "new information" here. If it's correct.

Police Give Dutchman Case to Prosecutors
Peru police give van der Sloot murder case to prosecutors

Joran van der Sloot 's confession in the murder of a 21-year-old woman — allegedly smashing her face and strangling her — was so complete that police decided there was no need to take him to the crime scene for a walkthrough, according to Peru's criminal police chief.

The case against the young Dutchman, who also remains the lone suspect in the Natalee Holloway missing-teenager case, goes to prosecutors Thursday so they can file formal charges, said the official, Gen. Cesar Guardia.

"We've practically closed the case," he told The Associated Press. "He's confessed with a wealth of details that have been corroborated through criminal investigative rigor."

Guardia denied any suggestion that Van der Sloot's confession was forced. He said a translator assigned by the Dutch Embassy was present, as was a state-appointed defense attorney.

What remains unresolved is the May 30, 2005 disappearance of Holloway on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

Efforts by the FBI to try to resolve it may have inadvertently helped fund the travel that enabled the murder — exactly five years to the day after the Alabama teen vanished — of Lima business student Stephany Flores.
B
elieving it was closing in on Van der Sloot, the FBI videotaped and paid him $25,000 in a sting operation in Aruba last month, investigators told the AP. But it held off on arresting him, and he took the money and flew to Peru.

Peruvian interrogators restricted their questioning of Van der Sloot to the case of Flores, the daughter of a circus promoter and former race car driver whom he met playing poker at a casino, Guardia said.
He told the AP in an interview Wednesday evening that the 6-foot-3 (190-centimeter-tall) Van der Sloot, 22, impressed investigators with both his intelligence and brutality.

"He grabbed her and smashed her with an elbow," Guardia said, pointing to his own nose. "A lot of blood spewed out ... Then he strangles her and throws her to the floor."

"He is irascible. He has no self-control," Guardia said.

The general said Van der Sloot took Flores' cash, about US$300 worth of Peruvian currency, and two credit cards.

Guardia said Van der Sloot attested in his confession to killing Flores because she found out about the Aruba case by using his laptop without his permission. But he said police didn't necessarily believe him and think he may have killed Flores before going out and returning to the room with two cups of coffee and rolls.

"This guy is very intelligent but at times has lapses," said Guardia. "And the truth is that he is not a person in possession of all his senses."

A psychological examination is pending, he said.

Van der Sloot is also getting plenty to eat, Guardia said. "If he wants a steak we give him a steak ... If he wants a cigarette we give him cigarettes."

The evidence against the Dutchman includes hotel security camera video showing Flores and Van der Sloot entering his hotel room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

"The incriminatory elements were so powerful that he had to confess," said Guardia.

Van der Sloot confessed, police say, on his third full day in police custody and a full week after he fled into northern Chile.

He was charged with extortion in the United States on June 2, the day of his arrest in Chile, in a case U.S. law officers and a private investigator say stemmed from work revived in April when Van der Sloot contacted a lawyer for Holloway's mother. The Dutchman was seeking $250,000 in exchange for the location of the young woman's body, they said.

Van der Sloot's father died in February and he "wanted to come clean, but he also wanted money," the private investigator, Bo Dietl, told the AP.

Holloway's family said they wanted closure and the attorney, John Kelly, contacted the FBI . It sent 10 to 12 agents to Aruba who set up a sting operation, added Dietl, who works with Kelly.

In the operation, Van der Sloot was given $10,000 in cash — another $15,000 was wired to a bank account in his name — and told he'd get $225,000 once the body was found, the investigator said.

Van der Sloot was secretly videotaped by the FBI in an Aruba hotel telling Kelly he pushed Holloway down, she hit her head on a rock and died, he added.

He said he then contacted his father, who helped him bury the body, Dietl added.

Under surveillance by the FBI, Kelley and Van der Sloot went to where the body supposedly was buried.

No body has been found.

The investigation of Van der Sloot in the Holloway case was simply not far enough along to have him arrested, the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham said Wednesday.

However, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy quickly asked FBI Director Robert Mueller for an explanation of "exactly what happened in this case and the basis for all actions taken by the FBI."

The federal criminal complaint in the case says Van der Sloot got a partial payment of $15,000 wired to a Netherlands bank on or around May 10.

It did not say where the money came from.

In a statement Wednesday, the FBI said only that the payment came from private funds. Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, has refused to discuss details of the case and Dietl said he didn't know the money's origin.

Van der Sloot was the last person seen with her daughter before the girl vanished on the last night of a high school graduation trip. He was arrested twice but released both times for a lack of evidence.

Flores' family was asked Wednesday for comment on the fact that Van der Sloot traveled to Peru less than a week after receiving the cash in the extortion sting.

Enrique Flores, one of the slain Peruvian woman's brothers, said, "My sister is dead, so I can't accomplish anything by thinking about what might have been."

"Neither I nor the family are thinking about all the things that could have happened but did not."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wirestory?id=10873420&page=1

[BUCKSHOT]

courtesy of blah. Heh Heh

These will be Joran's boyfriends while in jail.

Herman, and his twin brother, Sherman.

They will pull his ears and make him squeal like a pig.

[BUCKSHOT]

Sorry if this is a repeat.  I hadn't seen it before.
From Peter R. DeVries site and through translator


 
http://www.peterrdevries.nl/nieuws/als-je-me-niet-helpt-heb-je-geen-enkele-waarde-voor-mij/



"If you do not help me, you have no value for me ..."

MSN conversation shows need for money and short fuse of Joran

There is really not an hour goes by without there from Peru reported new details about the murder of Stephany Flores. It is striking that while there is often conspicuous "leaked documents on file." The police in Peru is known as quite corrupt and it is also much more likely that some pieces are deliberately leaked. Course fee. But we have said earlier, the country's education, the nation's honor.

The openness of the Peruvian authorities in any case to ensure that we know much about the circumstances of the crime in room 309 of Hotel Tac has played. How Joran killed the woman, the nature of the injury, the security monitoring from the hotel, the timeline - everything is on the street.

Confession

Now we know what Joran turn gave to his involvement. As reported The Telegraph, which has managed to lay hands on the first of Joran confessing verklaring that he has slain Stephany during a row over his involvement in the Holloway case. "When I came back (Joran was outside the hotel being out coffee and sandwiches, HS) Sat Stephany on my laptop to read. They accused me that I was not told about my past and began to argue. She tried to hit me. (..) They had no right to dive into my private life "during an outburst would Joran victims include a karate blow to her neck and gave her so violently that have strangled the neck broke. To succeed with a tennis racket, as previously reported in the Peruvian media, is also no mention.

Although it is quite possible that the flammable release Joran went to Stephany's curiosity about his private life, should not be excluded that this was a deliberate tactical statement goes. The seasoned Joran, who in everything he does his own best interest, well aware that a mistake last outbreak of violence will be punished less than such a deliberate robbery. And that was precisely the reason for ever Joran may have been.

MSN interview

Our editors have in recent months received numerous e-mails, which highlights the need for money which Joran wrong. He invented everything to raise money and shrank not to return to his family and friends to shake money out of pocket. Even the savings of his deceased father and scholarship of his brother were not safe cracker Joran. Very illustrative of the uncertain position of Joran shortly before the events in Peru wrong, is an MSN conversation between Joran and a friend, who we recently made available.

Below are some significant fragments, which we name the friend to withhold for privacy reasons and replaced them by the letter X. For readability, the MSN jargon translated to normal Dutch. The first release is as of May 25, more than two weeks before the murder so Stephany Flores was committed. Sat Joran was already in Peru.

Joran, May 25 at 7:44 p.m. - Hi, I'm currently in Peru. You can call me at XXX. I need your help. My wallet with all my bank cards and cash was stolen yesterday and I lost it during the night, so I'm currently really dick. Could you give me the morning to send 200 euros? I promise you it will double again as soon as I get back to Aruba and my bank cards won again. But I do not even have money to eat. I have asked many friends, but one can only send 100 euros and the other only 300. My return ticket is 520 and I still pay my Hotel. I would never forget and promise you really like the double return. I would just leave now because I can at the moment nothing. Thank you and the only information you need is my name Joran van der Sloot, the city of Lima Peru and the country. I will be eternally grateful really. Regards, Joran.

X, May 26 at 14:00 - Hey, there number is not reachable and I'll give you mine it. XXX, I like your song. I want to give ... even though I myself desperately needed, but do it because you are. I can give 100 euros, that's all I'm standing on my couch. Only I've never paid what. Help me ff then, do not know how to do it haha! But you get no letter or anything at home yet, I can say, yes I lost it.

X, May 26 at 18:47 - My dear, you really want to have tomorrow? Please reply ff. Better if you can call me after half past eight.

Joran, May 26 at 21:50 - Yes, if you can do would really help. Pins and then you stop by the Western Union and send Joran van der Sloot in Lima, Peru. That is the only information you need. Then you get really no letter home or so and I can pick up here at Western Union. Thanks and I try to call you later.

X, May 26 at 9:53 p.m. - Yeah, sure, you never call me! And I know that you have not lost money, I think playing poker or something, but it does not matter where you need the money, I give you. And where is that Western Union in Arnhem?

Joran, May 26 at 9:56 p.m. - Yep, in Arnhem, look online, you can find the closest, there are a lot. Really thanks, have another friend who sends me another 100 euros, so then I save it. Love, Joran.

X, May 26 at 10:31 p.m. - Yes, and what I get in return? That you call me or come and once we have a nice day / evening, whether I can come to Aruba? But I still had something to do, because you found me drama. Hence, among other things, you ask me. But if I did not give, would you still want to contact me?

Joran, May 26 at 11:25 p.m. - Now I trust that is the problem. So if you're not going to do you have to say. Do you have, you get double me back when I am in Aruba. But if you're not going to do you have to say, because I must think of something else. With you and my other friend, I finally had enough, so please, do it differently and let me know that you are not going to do. Love.

X, May 27 at 5:47 - Well, I would gladly do so because you're .. If you do it half early June, then I can give you up to 300. It is my phone bill was 270 euros. Gio tired and I do. Sorry that I promised, in June if you have no money or need for something, let me know ok? Sorry honey!

Joran, May 27 at 8:52 p.m. - Say no equal. I have enough money, now just need help and counting on, I'd like you really hear the double return. But never mind, my mom is helping me already. Leave me alone, okay. Greetings and success.

X, May 27 at 9:04 p.m. - Whahah, oh, so with that I could only make up and now you're mad, oh baby, not raised, there are worse people in your life. Haha, and I suppose you could give (because now you no longer need) when I get it back? And ps: what is this crazy site, everything is in English.

Joran, May 27 at 9:24 p.m. - I told you twice returned as soon as I was in Aruba, but you're the only talk and nothing else. I always keep my word and take good care of people like you, so what you do not understand? Leave me alone. If you do not help me when I most need now, then you have no value for me. If you had asked me for help I had done it right. Greetings and success in your life.

Malignant

So much for the conversation between Joran and X, which clearly is to conclude that Joran was beaten severely at the begging. At first he tried to glue his girlfriend, promising twice the amount advanced to be repaid, but he suggests that if X she momentarily turn Joran is tight as a leaf on a tree and he is downright evil. The X is perhaps fortunate that the heated debate is not in the seclusion of a hotel room or on a deserted beach Aruban played.

Although the course is quite possible that Joran has committed the murder out of anger at the gegluur in his laptop, but also makes the instant messaging conversation suspect another motive. Joran was clearly on the rocks and went still further in his efforts to raise money. Stephany Flores, daughter of a wealthy businessman, had money. And maybe that, coupled with its refusal to issue her that morning became fatal.

Henk Strootman
Editor Peter R. de Vries 

*BUMP*

[wingnut]

Has Joran drawn more than 1 map - or is this all?

Is this "house" anywhere near the International School? I remember a "construction site" in early discussions.

Tim Miller talked about that tonight on JVM. I don`t know where it is though?

Still have almost 20 pages to read before I'm caught up - LOL - so if already answered, sorry!  I thought the construction site was VERY near the Racquet Club.

Also wanted to say thanks to Lifesong for the fab timeline, and to Northern Rose for all the articles.  To Klaas and the anonymous donor for the lawsuit docs.

Can't wait to see the presser in 1.25 hours, wonder if they will perp walk van der Stool?

[Nut44x4]

How  about  a  dose  or  two  of  truth  serum ......   So much could be solved. Oh wait.....the freak could probably lie his way out of that too

[Nut44x4]

REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ BACK

KALPOES - DENIED!   They are basically in contempt of court now for not giving their depositions in California as ordered by the judge.

PRESS CONFERENCE - in Peru at 9am Peru Time which right now is the same as central time.

9am PERU =
7am CALIF =
10am NY

BUMP

[blah]

courtesy of blah. Heh Heh

Kermit,
Well done!!!  hahaha

[texasmom]

Thank you nimrod. I don't usually blather on so long, but reading, much less posting, is difficult these days, as we all know. With my schedule, I seem to only get one shot at posting.

texasmom - Are you keeping your eyes on Aruba?

klaas - Meant to thank you and the "unknown monkey" for the court case update. I do wonder what's next?

msmarple, excellent post above!

I scanned Awe Mainta before I went to bed, most of it anyway.  One article I read I believe said that Anita is not in Peru or even planning to go there.  But I also think that information may have come from a "girlfriend"...so who knows!

I hope the charge today is MURDER, and the most serious charge of MURDER that it can be.

TRUTH and JUSTICE for Natalee and Stephany!

[Ono]

You know, we can see that Stephany was drugged when following him to his room.  I'm still muddling, though, over what made her stay there 3 hours until after 8 AM when he went out for coffee.  Three hours is a long time to sit around in a tiny hotel room. 

Isn't it possible that she was killed rather quickly? Then he is the one who stayed for three hours in the room afterwards. It is more likely that he did something weird than that she did.

That's what I think happened-within minutes of the door closing he was beating her to death.   Her money was his goal.

[Ono]

What are the 5 stages of grief/trauma?
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Acceptance, moving on... or something like that.

Joran is in denial now. He's covering his mistakes and back peddling.
Next he will be angry that he was caught, and more banging his head against the wall.
Then he will bargain, possibly giving up the Natalie location (wondering if a house was built upon the location).
Before he dies in prison he will accept his fate and will move on to hell.

Maybe concrete around a pool....

Yes ... it's worth investigating alright.

[jen3560]

REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ BACK

KALPOES - DENIED!   They are basically in contempt of court now for not giving their depositions in California as ordered by the judge.

PRESS CONFERENCE - in Peru at 9am Peru Time which right now is the same as central time.

9am PERU =
7am CALIF =
10am NY

Thank you Klaas - and also to our anony Monkey for allowing us these court docs and details!

Not knowing much about civil law - could an arrest warrant now be issued for 2K for contempt of court?

[Ono]

REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ BACK

KALPOES - DENIED!   They are basically in contempt of court now for not giving their depositions in California as ordered by the judge.

PRESS CONFERENCE - in Peru at 9am Peru Time which right now is the same as central time.

9am PERU =
7am CALIF =
10am NY


GOODNIGHT ALL!  WHAT A WEEK!

Thank you!!;  Yes-what a week!

[nonesuche]

I think there is "new information" here. If it's correct.

Police Give Dutchman Case to Prosecutors
Peru police give van der Sloot murder case to prosecutors

Joran van der Sloot 's confession in the murder of a 21-year-old woman — allegedly smashing her face and strangling her — was so complete that police decided there was no need to take him to the crime scene for a walkthrough, according to Peru's criminal police chief.

The case against the young Dutchman, who also remains the lone suspect in the Natalee Holloway missing-teenager case, goes to prosecutors Thursday so they can file formal charges, said the official, Gen. Cesar Guardia.

"We've practically closed the case," he told The Associated Press. "He's confessed with a wealth of details that have been corroborated through criminal investigative rigor."

Guardia denied any suggestion that Van der Sloot's confession was forced. He said a translator assigned by the Dutch Embassy was present, as was a state-appointed defense attorney.

What remains unresolved is the May 30, 2005 disappearance of Holloway on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

Efforts by the FBI to try to resolve it may have inadvertently helped fund the travel that enabled the murder — exactly five years to the day after the Alabama teen vanished — of Lima business student Stephany Flores.
B
elieving it was closing in on Van der Sloot, the FBI videotaped and paid him $25,000 in a sting operation in Aruba last month, investigators told the AP. But it held off on arresting him, and he took the money and flew to Peru.

Peruvian interrogators restricted their questioning of Van der Sloot to the case of Flores, the daughter of a circus promoter and former race car driver whom he met playing poker at a casino, Guardia said.
He told the AP in an interview Wednesday evening that the 6-foot-3 (190-centimeter-tall) Van der Sloot, 22, impressed investigators with both his intelligence and brutality.

"He grabbed her and smashed her with an elbow," Guardia said, pointing to his own nose. "A lot of blood spewed out ... Then he strangles her and throws her to the floor."

"He is irascible. He has no self-control," Guardia said.

The general said Van der Sloot took Flores' cash, about US$300 worth of Peruvian currency, and two credit cards.

Guardia said Van der Sloot attested in his confession to killing Flores because she found out about the Aruba case by using his laptop without his permission. But he said police didn't necessarily believe him and think he may have killed Flores before going out and returning to the room with two cups of coffee and rolls.

"This guy is very intelligent but at times has lapses," said Guardia. "And the truth is that he is not a person in possession of all his senses."

A psychological examination is pending, he said.

Van der Sloot is also getting plenty to eat, Guardia said. "If he wants a steak we give him a steak ... If he wants a cigarette we give him cigarettes."

The evidence against the Dutchman includes hotel security camera video showing Flores and Van der Sloot entering his hotel room together and the Dutchman leaving alone four hours later.

"The incriminatory elements were so powerful that he had to confess," said Guardia.

Van der Sloot confessed, police say, on his third full day in police custody and a full week after he fled into northern Chile.

He was charged with extortion in the United States on June 2, the day of his arrest in Chile, in a case U.S. law officers and a private investigator say stemmed from work revived in April when Van der Sloot contacted a lawyer for Holloway's mother. The Dutchman was seeking $250,000 in exchange for the location of the young woman's body, they said.

Van der Sloot's father died in February and he "wanted to come clean, but he also wanted money," the private investigator, Bo Dietl, told the AP.

Holloway's family said they wanted closure and the attorney, John Kelly, contacted the FBI . It sent 10 to 12 agents to Aruba who set up a sting operation, added Dietl, who works with Kelly.

In the operation, Van der Sloot was given $10,000 in cash — another $15,000 was wired to a bank account in his name — and told he'd get $225,000 once the body was found, the investigator said.

Van der Sloot was secretly videotaped by the FBI in an Aruba hotel telling Kelly he pushed Holloway down, she hit her head on a rock and died, he added.

He said he then contacted his father, who helped him bury the body, Dietl added.

Under surveillance by the FBI, Kelley and Van der Sloot went to where the body supposedly was buried.

No body has been found.

The investigation of Van der Sloot in the Holloway case was simply not far enough along to have him arrested, the FBI and the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham said Wednesday.

However, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy quickly asked FBI Director Robert Mueller for an explanation of "exactly what happened in this case and the basis for all actions taken by the FBI."

The federal criminal complaint in the case says Van der Sloot got a partial payment of $15,000 wired to a Netherlands bank on or around May 10.

It did not say where the money came from.

In a statement Wednesday, the FBI said only that the payment came from private funds. Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, has refused to discuss details of the case and Dietl said he didn't know the money's origin.

Van der Sloot was the last person seen with her daughter before the girl vanished on the last night of a high school graduation trip. He was arrested twice but released both times for a lack of evidence.

Flores' family was asked Wednesday for comment on the fact that Van der Sloot traveled to Peru less than a week after receiving the cash in the extortion sting.

Enrique Flores, one of the slain Peruvian woman's brothers, said, "My sister is dead, so I can't accomplish anything by thinking about what might have been."

"Neither I nor the family are thinking about all the things that could have happened but did not."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wirestory?id=10873420&page=1

msmarples, thank you for your posts today

This article is quickly populating across the web and it's contents seem logical.

Noting Joran states Natalee died by hitting her head against a rock..........AGAIN...

[MsVada]

I still do not believe that is Joran behind his mother in that bingo picture.  Close relation to him maybe but it IMHO that isn't Joran

lmao... I would recognize that ginormous pumpkin head anywhere - it's him, and shackled to Anita. lol

I respectfully disagree,  wish I knew how to put comparison photo's side by side on here.....

[Rob]

June 10th.

Sitting here this morn, having my coffee, I can't help but realize how different things are.

June 10th 2005 Aruba decided to destroy itself. June 10th 2010 Peru will do the right thing and end any "future crimes".

This should have been done from the beginning.

Maybe you will all remember, the evening of June 9th 2005, Beth was heard crying behind a door by the MSM before an interview with 20/20. The FBI had told her that they were sure Natalee was dead and Joran had confessed. The following morning Joran would lead authorities to the body. We all remember him hitting his handcuffed hands on the roof of the car.

June 10th 2005 an Aruban spokesperson declared to international media that Natalee was dead and one of the suspects confessed.

This was later retracted, but it was too late.

Conspiracies are sometimes real.

[nonesuche]

June 10th.

Sitting here this morn, having my coffee, I can't help but realize how different things are.

June 10th 2005 Aruba decided to destroy itself. June 10th 2010 Peru will do the right thing and end any "future crimes".

This should have been done from the beginning.

Maybe you will all remember, the evening of June 9th 2005, Beth was heard crying behind a door by the MSM before an interview with 20/20. The FBI had told her that they were sure Natalee was dead and Joran had confessed. The following morning Joran would lead authorities to the body. We all remember him hitting his handcuffed hands on the roof of the car.

June 10th 2005 an Aruban spokesperson declared to international media that Natalee was dead and one of the suspects confessed.

This was later retracted, but it was too late.

Conspiracies are sometimes real.

Well said Rob, I so agree!!

Even in corporate america today with global operations, it's become all about saving your own hide and less about ethics or truth. Spin, spin, spin.....BP is yet another fine example.

How Aruba's leadership can think what they say and not what they do isn't transparent......is beyond me.