Natalee Case Discussion #836 6/8/10 - 6/10/10

[carpe noctem]

My co-worker just said that she had the tv on this morning, watching the news. Her 3-year old son saw a picture of Joran (mind you, he had never seen him before in his life!) and said: Look mommy, a bad guy!!
Even 3-year olds know!

LOL! Kids are intuitive.

[Jo-An]

just had a thought.... wondering about why Stephany went to his room at all and then why he (maybe) went for coffee for the two of them.... I'm not a gambler, don't know what time of day poker tournaments happen but...I wonder if there was an early morning game of poker scheduled that maybe she and Joran wanted to attend. Maybe there was another game @ 7 or 8am so they were just going back to Jorans room to rest/wait unttil the next game? Maybe that's why he went to get coffee for them? then I don't know what happened... I know Joran was not signed up for the major tournament but I wonder is there any way to check and see if there were any other poker games going on that morning?
I'm not even caught up and it's time for bed. g'night everyone

I read somewhere that they went up to his room to play online poker. And that that was the reason his computer was on.

[muisje]

6 with SBS documentary about Joran van der Sloot

6 with SBS documentary about Joran van der SlootSBS Thursday 6 sends a special documentary welded on Joran van der Sloot. The 22-year-old Dutchman has made headlines since he is suspected of the murder of the Peruvian Stephany Flores. The documentary will crime reporter Peter R. de Vries, shed light on the matter. "And tell the families of the victims how they deal with the murder, the Peruvian police's investigation leads to the word," said a spokesman for SBS.
The documentary includes interviews with a slot on the night of the murder of Van der Sloot and play poker with the staff of the hotel where Flores was killed. "Based on the interviews and the news is reconstructed the murder: the murder on May 30 for alleged confession Joran Tuesday and of course the news that follows the coming days," said the spokesman.
Flores on May 30 have been killed in the hotel room of Van der Sloot. Eyewitnesses, camera images and blood traces all point towards the young Dutchman. According to foreign media, including CNN, Van der Sloot's murder would even have known in the hope of remission. Van der Sloot is also still suspicious of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005.
'Joran van der Sloot: the complete story' is Thursday at 23.20 hours to see on SBS 6 (Netherlands)

[carpe noctem]

Taco Stein says he can`t comment on a botched Holloway investigation

because he just started working at Mc Rooba`s    6 months ago.

He is still learning how to work the fry cookers!

------------

Aruba Not Pursuing Joran van der Sloot
LKL Video

Taco Stein, the Solicitor General of Aruba, appeared on CNN's Larry King Show to talk about the latest involving Joran van der Sloot. He said officials there are not seeking van der Sloot's extradition in connection with Natalee Holloway's disappearance, saying nothing has changed in that investigation:

VIDEO
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2010/06/08/lkl.van.der.sloot.prosecuted.cnn

[carpe noctem]

Also Wednesday, van der Sloot is expected to re-enact for investigators the crime in his room at Hotel Tac, said Peru National Police Col. Abel Gamarra.

That re-enactment was originally slated for Tuesday but was delayed for security reasons.


http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/peru.murder.case/?hpt=T1

[JA]

Young people often make poor choices.  Obviously Stephany did this time, even if she was int e habit of manking sound ones.  We may never know why she went with Joran, but I am sure it involved Joran lying to her, possibly charming her, and possibly drugging her.

Once in the room, they probably had small talk before things went downhill.

Maybe she feel asleep, or Joran was waiting for drugs to take effect on her system.  Maybe her forced her to disrobe, or maybe she was half conscious and he removed her pants and saw she had her period.  Maybe he then wanted oral sex and she refused.  Maybe she woke up from a drug induced sleep and didn't know where she was, or who she was with.  Could he have been in the bathroom thinking she was out cold and left his computer in a sleep mode?  He could have been looking at porn, playing a game, or communicating with someone.  She then possibly went to his computer to try to see what he was looking at or who he was, still have dazed and unable to make sound decisions.

She tells him what she saw on his computer and he tries to get out of it by lying although she doesn't believe him.  He is afraid she will tell about whatever she saw or just doesn't liek the idea that she saw what she did.

She then decides she wants to leave and Joran tries to forbid her, or convince her otherwise, either hoping to get sex or for whatever reason he has her there.  She says things to him that anger him and he approaches her.  She tries to scream or lashes out at him, which further angers him so he attacks her.  Once he sees what he has done to her which might have just been possibly choked her and had her lose consciousness, he goes into a further rage beating her.  He may think she is dead already, or most likely doesn't care.  He in his warped sense of entitlement etc. sees his problems as her fault and feels she deserves this. He continues to beat her the whole time seeing it as her fault for his predicament.

When he is done, he breaks down and has to figure a plan.  He showers and knows he has to get out of there.  there is no way he can clean up the crime scene so he must flee.  He throws his shirt over her so he doesn't have to look at her.  he goes out for coffee to try to appear "normal" before he leaves.  He takes her money and possibly her jewelery because she doesn't need it and she owes it to him for all this trouble she has put him in.


I think the time frame of when he killed her doesn't seem acurate, but who knows, we are talking abouty a deranged person here.  that would just give him a small window to wash up from the crime, get his wits together, gather his thigns and get out of there.  But could be possible if he really has no remorse at killing and being responsible for his rages.


But as we know Joran lyes and figures he told enough versions of Natalee's death that he wasn't held responsible, so why not do it with this one.  Maybe Papa Sloot has told him to do this when he gets in trouble.

At this point, it doesn't matter what version of his story is true.  He just needs to be accountable for ending this young woman's life.  Her poor decision of going with him should not have resulted in her death, and I can't see any of this being an "accident" so he must pay for this crime against an innocent.

[crazybabyborg]

Latest developments on the Joran van der Sloot case
By the CNN Wire Staff
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
(CNN) -- Here are the latest developments on the arrest of Joran van der Sloot, who is in Peruvian custody as the suspect in the killing of Stephany Flores Ramirez.

NEW

Van der Sloot could be formally charged with murder as early as Wednesday.

He is also expected to re-enact crime at the Hotel Tack in Lima. That re-enactment, initially scheduled for Tuesday, was postponed for security reasons.
PREVIOUSLY REPORTED

Joran van der Sloot faces criminal charges in Alabama because he tried to extort $250,000 from Natalee Holloway's mother, according to an Interpol document.

Stephany Flores was killed after she discovered information on van der Sloot's laptop linking him to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, a source with direct knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

He confessed to the Flores killing Monday night, officials said.

The Dutch citizen told investigators that he left the hotel room to buy bread and coffee at a gas station next to the hotel and returned to find Flores on his laptop.

Flores wanted to leave, and the pair started arguing. Flores slapped van der Sloot, and he hit her back and then went for her neck, a source with direct knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

Van der Sloot told investigators he was intoxicated on marijuana during the incident.

There was no evidence that Flores had sexual intercourse the night she was killed, the source said.

Van der Sloot was arrested twice in connection with Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba but was released for lack of evidence. He has denied any involvement and has not been charged.

He was arrested in Chile on Thursday and returned to Peru on Friday.

Van der Sloot could get up to 35 years in prison. There is no death penalty or life sentence in Peru.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/09/peru.murder.case.developments/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[carpe noctem]

Those Peruvians actually have a wonderful sense of humor.

[muisje]

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/489119/2010/06/09/Joran-test-positief-voor-wiet-en-cocaine.dhtml
(translated by Google)

LIMA - In a toxicological study has revealed that Joran van der Sloot has tested positive to cannabis and cocaine.

Against the Peruvian police had only admitted that he "occasionally" used marijuana. The cocaine use, he compared the Peruvian auotoriteiten concealed.

According to the Peruvian trome.com druggsporen are also in the body of Stephany Flores found.
It is suggested that drug use by Stephany without opposition with Joran to the hotel room is left.

The website also reported that knows the body of Stephany under the bruises, and her eyes looked like "raccoon eyes" by the fatal blows which they had to collect.

Joran van der Sloot told the Peruvian police that his victim Stephany Flores hit him before he killed her. Van der Sloot would have become so angry because she had dived into his private life. After the murder, he hit on the run.

[Jo-An]

Google translation of the original report from the trome-webiste:

^{Gringo is a drug addict murderer}
By E. Cyril

It's cynical and deceitful. First, Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (23), who killed Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21) attempted to deny the crime, but to be lost had to confess. Then he said it was only occasional consumer of marijuana, but yesterday the drug test he was subjected also tested positive for cocaine.

Thus it is found that the Dutchman did not tell the truth to the experts of the Bureau of Criminal Investigation (Oficri). "It completito: murderer, liar and drug addict. His glance certain fears," said one detective.

These personality traits, coupled with its relentlessness with Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez (21), could lead the police to charge him with aggravated homicide (murder). The detainee is to believe he committed the crime brought by a sudden reaction, but his strategy is crumbling.

He grabbed a shock
On his victim discharged a colossal violence. He gave five racket in the head and once in the left ear, then bathed in blood with punches in the nose and lips, to finally break its neck in a furious blow.

The young university also has bruises on both eyes ("raccoon eyes", according to forensic jargon), bruises on the mucous lip and nose, the product of punches and elbow.

In addition, he found a lesion in the cervical region the product of a knockout blow, which would be the one who had caused his death.

"This evidence would disrupt the strategy of the alleged murderer to being accused of murder by violent emotion, which the maximum penalty is five years in prison," said one researcher.

The same source said the Dutchman trying to make believe he reacted violently when he saw Stephany enter your notebook (laptop), rummaging through his stuff and discover that he was involved in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

Had doped
It was reported that the review conducted at the wretched girl had also tested positive for drugs.

Although not specifically what substance found, this result seems to suggest to the police that the subject gave some substance to numb it and take it to your hotel. In this way was easily to your hotel.

[carpe noctem]

Another date rape.

[carpe noctem]

Except Joran can`t get the rape portion of it down right.

[Ono]

Just an aside............... Anna's GREAT line about 'Joran will probably soon be up for a reward' even beats her line from months back when she stated that
'those who support Joran are likely to be the same people who would root for the germs against Lysol'!!!!!! 

Hahaha ... that's great! That's a good way to look at it;  ~  Hi Wreck!

[msmarple]

Good morning and thank you muisje and Jo-An.

This isn't much of a surprise.

But I think the big point is that he lied re. cocaine (maybe a lie by omission), and that will cloud his "confession."

I think cocaine doesn't remain in the system very long. He probably was using during his "flight." Although a hair sample might be different from a blood test. Some of you smart monkeys can probably figure this out.

I still think robbery was his motive.

Maybe kermit knows this: one of the reasons Chile gave for "expelling" him was insufficient funds. What do you suppose is considered sufficient funds to visit a country? (I have heard of this.) I would guess that Chile checked his credit cards and bank statement as well as cash on hand? Plus, I would think that lack of a passport would do it, but I don't think that was mentioned.

[Ono]

Greta's covering just ended.

Joran said in confession that he was enraged by Stephany being in his laptop and asking about Natalee. He started yelling at her and she tried to leave. He grabbed her to prevent her from leaving and asphyxiated her.

My comments: I wonder if he accounted for the other bruises?

And no mention of FBI's responsibility...

What would be the FBI's responsibility? I don't get that...............

They could do NOTHING because of the interference and road blocks put up by the Aruba officials. I believe the Aruba officials even tipped off Joran while the FBI was getting their warrants. that the FBI was coming to arrest him and that is why he ran to Bogata when he did.

I agree.

[Ono]

Greta's covering just ended.

Joran said in confession that he was enraged by Stephany being in his laptop and asking about Natalee. He started yelling at her and she tried to leave. He grabbed her to prevent her from leaving and asphyxiated her.

My comments: I wonder if he accounted for the other bruises?

And no mention of FBI's responsibility...

What would be the FBI's responsibility? I don't get that...............

They could do NOTHING because of the interference and road blocks put up by the Aruba officials. I believe the Aruba officials even tipped off Joran while the FBI was getting their warrants. that the FBI was coming to arrest him and that is why he ran to Bogata when he did.

The FBI COULD NOT have arrested Joran in Aruba on the sting operation without the consent or word from Aruban police.  They were supposed to watch Joran or arrest him and not allow him to leave the country.  Alas, they probably bought him an airline ticket.

... and snacks;  Greta's coverage was very brief & mechanical I thought.

[Sharon/Tx]

Good morning.  Like I said days ago, Joran probably took Stephany to his room to get high.  When she came to... and saw the laptop, she looked on it and saw something that angered her.  Joran said that she flipped out when she saw who he was.  I don't believe that.  I believe she saw something else on that laptop that angered her and she tried to leave but he wouldn't let her leave knowing what she knew.  I bet a dollar he took pics of her posed and drugged.  Daddy cannot erase the laptop this time.  I hope we see pics of Anita collapsing in arms when she hears Joran is going down.... just like we saw Beth 5 years ago -June 11, 2005.  Stephany may have tried to delete photos or get into files.  I hope that laptop is checked file to file.  The Vandersloot home and grounds need to be checked thoroughly.  That furniture truck that came to the Vandersloot home days after Natalee disappeared was pretty fishy too.

SOMEONE knows.  The truth will come out.  We will see justice for Natalee,  and for Stephany.

[Sea Searcher]

I hope the Peruvian justice system is not as flakey as the Aruban one but am beginning to wonder.  Who gives yesrs off for smoking pot during the commission on a crime!  I mean, wouldn't they ALL say they were if that's the case?

I don't think this is the case. Peru have him a lighter sentence for confession only. He still isn't charged. With all the publicity I don't think Peru is going to make mistakes on this one.

Morning Monkeys !

I have to agree with this and similar posts...much like 5 years ago, there will be a lot of rumors and MSM "may have" could have" possible" 's floating around like yesterdays "finding Natalee" claims...media is in business to make money off of flashy "BREAKING NEWS" claims..

Got to keep eye's on the ball...and I think the Peru police are doing just that. Let Joran talk..the more he says, the worse it gets for him...IMO

[Ono]

Sloot Signature Killing

1. He set her up with lies

2. Isolated her

3. Tried to rape her ( he doesn`t give a sh if it`s a lesbian. in fact, it would be an even greater challenge. i will make her enjoy men, i am the great joran. )

4. She fought to the death just like Nat

Don't forget his drugging her first.

[msmarple]

And don't forget the "date-rape-type drug" (wrappers only? or drugs?) found in her car.

Reminder that some folks do take those things "recreationally." I think we discusssed this long ago, they're especially used at raves.