Natalee Case Discussion #836 6/8/10 - 6/10/10

[Ono]

NO, we should NOT stop blaming Aruba and here are some reasons why.

Joran likely grew up hearing Paulus and Uncle Ben (Voc)King bragging about drugging and beating prisoners, the most notable of whom was Alex Matthews.  Note I am certainly no fan of Matthews but still, drugging and beating and housing without a roof in that sun, etc. was totally inhumane.

Remember the conditions under which Matthews was housed and yet now they want all manner of consideration when it is one of theirs.

Joran learned the art of drugging and abusing at their knee.  See World Court rulings stating Matthews human rights violated.

Paulus taught Joran to get in the internet and find out what to do when he killed somebody.  Like father, like son.  Only this time Joran couldn't make the body disappear as before.

The entire population did things such as protest marches against Beth Holloway, the victim's mother 2 or 3 times.  Teaching Joran and the rest of their youth to riducule the victim and the grief of their familis.

Jokes were made about Natalee and her mother, dishes named for crabs that likely fed off her corpse, cops suggested it wa just insurance scam and Natalee was fine, lies were told at the highest levels.  Dennis Jacobs a member of ALE told Dave Holloway about drinks being drugged by the locals.  This was done for the purpose of robbing and raping.

So why not blame Aruba?  It's their fault that Stephany Flores is dead because of the way they encouraged Joran and other when he killed Natalee.  It was all one big sick joke to them and they took delight in our pain and grief.

And now they once again seek to avoid being held accountable for their own action.  The whole world is going to know what that sick flyspeck did and they are the last place to expect favors from others.  Cut them no slack whatsoever!

Good thoughts Anna!

[klaasend]

VIDEO Van der Sloot transferred to the Attorney

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100610/101495/Trasladan-a-Van-der-Sloot-a-la-Fiscalia

[SunnyinTX]

anybody catch what mark fuhrman said on fox news  less than a half hour ago?

he said there was no bloody scene, blood from her ear and nose (I think) she died of trauma to her brain from being hit....no confirmation from the ME that she was beat with the tennis racquet..sorry that's all I got as someone came to my door....hopefully someone else got the rest.

[Dragnet]

Has there been anything posted or reported as to why Peru considers a charge of robbery to deliver a stiffer and longer sentence than murder itself?  This continues to boggle my mind.

It doesn't.  The longer sentence is for murder committed DURING a  robbery.  I would suppose it is to prevent people from just killing people an taking their belongings.

Ok, thank you to both Seeme and Anna for the explanation.

[Northern Rose]

Dutchman accused of crime in Peru led to the prosecution

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, a confessed murderer of Peru in late May, was transferred Thursday to the Office in Lima, an entity must submit criminal charges against him, found the AFP.

Van der Sloot, who is 22 years and is also related to the disappearance of an American in 2005, was taken by the police with body armor and a large deployment of security to the prosecution, in the heart of Lima.

This shift means that the police investigation is over "and now the Attorney Ninfa Espinosa, who is in charge of the prosecution, Van der Sloot will question and should lodge a complaint, said a police source requested anonymity told AFP.

Once this process-which can last several hours or even several days, the accused will go to a maximum security prison.

Van der Sloot confessed to having murdered in his hotel room to the Peruvian Stephany Flores, 21.

The Dutchman is also involved in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway in Aruba in May 2005.

Van der Sloot was seen with her in her last hours, and although he was arrested twice by the fact it ended up being released for lack of evidence. Holloway's body was not found.

http://www.rnw.nl/espanol/bulletin/holand%C3%A9s-acusado-de-crimen-en-per%C3%BA-llevado-a-la-fiscal%C3%ADa

[cece]

VIDEO Van der Sloot transferred to the Attorney

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100610/101495/Trasladan-a-Van-der-Sloot-a-la-Fiscalia

LOL!!!  Good one Klaas

[SunnyinTX]

VIDEO Joran van der Sloot Was Taken to the lockup of Public Prosecutions

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/492655/joran-van-der-sloot-fue-trasladado-carceleta-ministerio-publico?

I never saw joran except wedged in the back seat between 2 police

[Dragnet]

Wonder why?

Did their suspect commit Arubacide in his cell?  One size 14 K-Swiss shoved down his throat, and one hand in his pocket?

 LOL Jen

Hiya Ang honey!  That's my fantasy, what can I say.

My fantasy would also include the other shoe ..... Size 10 K-Swiss ...up his ass! I have the photo in mind that Klaas has of him ... one shoe bigger than the other.rotflmao.

Oh my, I was just on the phone with someone when I looked at this picture and I bust out laughing and they kept asking me what was so funny.

[Ono]

Anita was lying down flat in the back of the SWAT pick-up truck.

LOLOLOL

[nonesuche]

Well many have stated Joran will be at risk of being murdered in prison but after watching the video of the transfer, it's apparent he will never be safe on the streets of Peru even after a 35 year sentence.

You have to wonder how many death threats are being tracked by the police in Peru........an additional significant effort one would think, more manpower.

Anna - indeed Aruba is responsible soup to nuts in this.

Mark Fuhrman had little new in reality but did say that he was able to confirm that coffee was found spilled in the room, which could support that Stephany was still alive when Joran returned to the room?

[the big hammer]

MURDER - 1st DEGREE

Many conflicting reports, but it appears now that instead of a press conference, the goon has been brought to the Attorney General's office, officially charged with murder, and will await trial in common prison.

If this is the case, not really surprising.

Developing countries typically have a significant crime problem, they are far less fastidious with the niceties of criminal "rights & privileges" than more economically advanced countries sometimes are.  It could very well be that upon confessing what he did, to the extent he "confessed," that there is less recourse when compared to the nonsense we viewed 5 years ago on Aruba.  I would bet that confession, even a retracted confession, is admissible evidence in Peru.  I would further bet that continuing to lie to the Police and the prosecutors plays heavily into the "preponderance of evidence" standard here (vs. beyond reasonale doubt) -- if one is innocent, one does not need to lie.  Further, in Latin and South America, I would believe his attempt to describe a situation where he was defending himself against an attacking Stefany (as stated by some of these news reports) would be viewed with high skepticism; it just doesn't hold water, and the offense he suggests she committed simply does not rise to a defense level requiring a fatal response.

If the above is near right, this may be over.

.  

[nonesuche]

VIDEO Van der Sloot transferred to the Attorney

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100610/101495/Trasladan-a-Van-der-Sloot-a-la-Fiscalia

LOL!!!  Good one Klaas

LOL I remember those well

[Northern Rose]

The Dutchman citizen Joran van der Sloot, the author confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores, was admitted today at 9 last morning at the Public Ministry in the center of Lima. Related.

The Dutchman joined on board a truck from the homicide division of the DIVINCRI, heavily guarded by more units.

It was also announced that it will remain in the lockup of Public Prosecutions pending the prosecutor determined Ninfa Espinoza Sotomayor Sloot denounce ranging from criminally for the crime he is accused, before the judiciary.

The head of the Criminal Prosecution Lima 40 will focus now analyze the contents of the statement that produced the Homicide Division of the National Police about the criminal responsibility of the citizen Dutchman by this fact.

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/10/06/2010/van-der-sloot-en-manos-del-ministerio-publico

[Northern Rose]

VIDEO Joran van der Sloot Was Taken to the lockup of Public Prosecutions

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/492655/joran-van-der-sloot-fue-trasladado-carceleta-ministerio-publico?

I never saw joran except wedged in the back seat between 2 police

He is going to get accustomed to being wedged between two men daily.

[Frank]

This is not over.

Natalee needs to be brought home.

Jan van der straaten needs to be held accountable.

Premeditated Murder charges against Paulus van der sloot, why? How? What evidence?

Not over.

[SunnyinTX]

VIDEO Van der Sloot transferred to the Attorney

http://www.peru.com/noticias/portada20100610/101495/Trasladan-a-Van-der-Sloot-a-la-Fiscalia

Thanks, wow, they don't screw around with security, though the people on the cycle almost got knocked down by the gate closing.

The other video shows the black SWAT trucks with snipers  suited up on the back

Wow, they sure don't fool around there in Peru.

my neighbor said would they be doing this if Stephany's father was not a highly visable personality............my guess, probably not. IIRC, South American has one of the highest murder rate in the world..I remember reading about a gang in Peru killing fat people.....I found this http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/11/22/2003459087 if anyone is interested...it was really icky and you may never look at your cosmetics in the same way again!

[Northern Rose]

Transferred to the Public Ministry to Joran Van der Sloot
The Netherlands citizen, Joran Van der Sloot, involved in the murder of Peruvian Stephany Flores, was conducted today to 40 criminal Provincial Prosecutor of Lima, by Ninfa Espinoza Sotomayor, at the headquarters of Public Prosecutions.

Such a transfer, which occurred a few minutes ago, came amid a large police deployment since he left the Dirincri and with the participation of about 40 security officers.


The Dutchman looked tired and was quickly shot at the police unit that took him to the Public Ministry, a fact that was filmed and photographed by national and foreign media.

Also, wearing a bulletproof vest in order to ensure their safety, that looks the same since he arrived in Peru.

Van der Sloot, was expelled from Chile after learning about his possible involvement in the death of Stephany Flores, whom he met in a gambling hall.

By his own admission, the Dutchman said he killed the young Peruvian after realizing he was checking his laptop, which also came to know about their illegal actions.


Joran Van der Sloot is charged with the murder of U.S. citizen Natalee Holloway, a fact which happened in Aruba and whose body was never found.

After meeting through international information, the presence of Van der Sloot in Peru, from Colombia was able to meet the disappearance of two youths who attended the casinos.


As is known, the citizens Netherlands is a known gambling addiction usually go to the gambling rooms, where their victims are usually caught. (LIP)

http://www.justomedio.com/19296/trasladan-al-ministerio-publico-a-joran-van-der-sloot

[sleddogs]

They are in a tremendous hurry to get Joran into Castro Castro for some reason, lol!

I'm pretty sure that a welcoming party is being arranged for even as we speak.

 Breaking out the vaseline .. BIG BUBBA is waiting!

Big Benito is waiting

[Anna]

Fox just reported that his confession is so complete that the re enactement is not necessary

It is my understanding that the reenactment is done for the benefit of the police and not the one doing the confessing.  So I wiould assume they are at liberty to forego it at their own discretion.  In the case of Joran, I suspect they have more than the "preponderance of evidence" their law requires.  We have seen more than that ourselves.

[nonesuche]

MURDER - 1st DEGREE

Many conflicting reports, but it appears now that instead of a press conference, the goon has been brought to the Attorney General's office, officially charged with murder, and will await trial in common prison.

If this is the case, not really surprising.

Developing countries typically have a significant crime problem, they are far less fastidious with the niceties of criminal "rights & privileges" than more economically advanced countries sometimes are.  It could very well be that upon confessing what he did, to the extent he "confessed," that there is less recourse when compared to the nonsense we viewed 5 years ago on Aruba.  I would bet that confession, even a retracted confession, is admissible evidence in Peru.  I would further bet that continuing to lie to the Police and the prosecutors plays heavily into the "preponderance of evidence" standard here (vs. beyond reasonale doubt) -- if one is innocent, one does not need to lie.  Further, in Latin and South America, I would believe his attempt to describe a situation where he was defending himself against an attacking Stefany (as stated by some of these news reports) would be viewed with high skepticism; it just doesn't hold water, and the offense he suggests she committed simply does not rise to a defense level requiring a fatal response.

If the above is near right, this may be over.

.  

Hi Hammer - I really do not feel that Peru is going to capitulate to any of the Hague's posturing or to Altez's chest beating that Joran was wronged. In this instance, his past is helping to document why they should expediently try him for murder. The pattern is clear and Peru is no fool.

Unfortunately the pain of the loss and the knowledge it occurred with such violence and depravity, will remain forever with the families of Natalee and Stephany.