Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

If we were to have access to evidence, witnesses, and advanced technology (laboratory tests, computer systems) and had the power to enter and search private properties, give lie detectors to everyone involved, and read minds, we would be better prepared to make precise and informed conclusions relating to the crime.

But, we don't.

We have to do with what comes out on the media, and the hearsays - most of which changes from time to time, and some of it is very inaccurate, as we have seen in this and other cases in the past.

So, going back and forth in theories I think it's good... so all angles are explored and discussed, and no stone is left unturned (using the little resources we got at our disposal.)

So true. It is not a good idea to be looking at a case while having tunnel vision that's for sure. Good post IM.

Very true, and in this case I look at all options, unlike other cases.

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

I do admit though,
After learning about this case my initial thoughts were that the perp could have been set off by something as simple as perceiving that they had been cut off in traffic.
I don't know why I thought that but it stuck with me. I still have kept my eyes wide open and will continue to take all clues in to consideration.

[novella]

article with Kaine's timeline

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Curious...are the teachers and school children on a gag order?  I find it amazing that not one teacher has really come forward.  They are just as silent as Terri.  Was Kaine having an affair or not?  I read statements that it was with a woman named Phylis who worked with him...but they were not verifiable sources.  In regards to Kaine's timeline...is that trustworthy...those are his words.  What has Intel said?  Did he take any breaks?  Did anyone actually see him throughout the day to verify his timeline?  Why are all his coworkers silent?  WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET????  Wow!!!  It really is phenomenal!

[seemeatthebeach]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around a mother hurting their child, or any child for that matter......but then I look at Casey Anthony.
I don't want to think Terri directly or indirectly caused harm to Kyron, and hope to God she didn't.

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around a mother hurting their child, or any child for that matter......but then I look at Casey Anthony.
I don't want to think Terri directly or indirectly caused harm to Kyron, and hope to God she didn't.

That's just it, hate to say this, but unfortunately following cases I've become hardened, and a mother killing her child, which obviously is horrific, anybody murdering someone is horrific, I realize this happens. Something is off for me in this case, but if it turns out that Terri did this to Kyron it will not surprise me, but as of now I'm just not sure what happened.

[no rose colored glasses]

I do admit though,
After learning about this case my initial thoughts were that the perp could have been set off by something as simple as perceiving that they had been cut off in traffic.
I don't know why I thought that but it stuck with me. I still have kept my eyes wide open and will continue to take all clues in to consideration.

It never ceases to amaze me what will set someone off and they violently beat or kill someone. Road rage is a scary thing, living in So Ca I know, and you just don't know what may set a person off, you read about it all the time, silly things to you and I perhaps but for some people they just get violent. 

[Itaryl Moosee]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around a mother hurting their child, or any child for that matter......but then I look at Casey Anthony.
I don't want to think Terri directly or indirectly caused harm to Kyron, and hope to God she didn't.

We generalize "all mothers", but in reality mothers are as individual as they are human. Each one with her own nicks and nacks, and not everyone endowed with a motherly instinct.

----

My mother used to raise rabbits, and once in a while she would get a mother rabbit who would eat their just-born.

Some would refuse to feed their babies, and kick them so the little ones won't cling to their "mammaries."

In casey's case the need to be "young" and party with people her age blinded her to the motherly instinct, I think.

Okay, so many girls her age want to party and have babies... and they don't kill their babies.

But, again, not all people are the same, people rationalize things differently.

I cannot say what was TH's mentality at the time, but maybe she was overwhelmed by two "big" boys and a baby girl. No time for social activities, no job, and money may have been tight.

Sending James away may have been a first step into thinning out the family tree. But, sending Kyron home would mean Kaine having to pay child support, which would defy the purpose of sending him home to have more money available.

Maybe she rationalized a way out of what she saw as her "predicament."

Maybe...

[Grey]

article with Kaine's timeline

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Curious...are the teachers and school children on a gag order?  I find it amazing that not one teacher has really come forward.  They are just as silent as Terri.  Was Kaine having an affair or not?  I read statements that it was with a woman named Phylis who worked with him...but they were not verifiable sources.  In regards to Kaine's timeline...is that trustworthy...those are his words.  What has Intel said?  Did he take any breaks?  Did anyone actually see him throughout the day to verify his timeline?  Why are all his coworkers silent?  WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET????  Wow!!!  It really is phenomenal!

Maybe the teachers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation.

If Kaine were having an affair, LE would check for any ties to the Kyron investigation. I think someone from Terri's camp put that info out, so I throw it in with some of their other wild statements.

Intel knows where Kaine was. LE knows where Kaine was. Kaine knows were Kaine was. Kaine's computers can verify some of his timeline. I can only assume the timeline is the same for all.

Maybe his coworkers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation. They were not at the school unless they had a child attending there, so I don't know what they would have to add.

I think it is great that people are not blabbing to the press, usually in order to gain personal attention in the spotlight. If they have anything to say, LE would be happy to listen.

There are several possibilities on what happened to Kyron. Terri has received attention because her published but not verified timeline and actions are questionable, but that does not prove she is guilty of anything. Terri's "friends" have not helped by throwing out speculations and outright lies about others in order to defend Terri.

What the press puts out and what the jury hears in a court case are two different things. The press has been very good about keeping Kyron in the public's eye, and I hope it continues to do so, but I don't need partial leaks and personal speculations to keep the story going.

[no rose colored glasses]

Itaryl Moosee I so agree with what you posted.   
We generalize "all mothers", but in reality mothers are as individual as they are human. Each one with her own nicks and nacks, and not everyone endowed with a motherly instinct.

[Puzzler]

I quit posting on this case because it was like living a deja vu with Madeleine's case all over again. I already slugged it out with the best worst of the British and Portuguese trolls on the UK Mirror before that was shut down for liability and had no desire to do it all again. In my opinion, there was a lot of liability here, but not for SM, but for those that think they can just post anything they desire on the net and there are no consequences. Oh, that's right, you can be prosecuted in a civil court for malicious slander and spreading rumors and more importantly - destroying someone's character. Terri was never charged and never arrested even though so many are convinced that she is guilty. And even if she is cleared, those same posters may continue to believe that Terri somehow, someway, did it all and outsmarted everyone. They won't accept that Terri could be innocent and that she was the victim to a corrupt police force that could even rope off a crime scene.

Want to know what's gonna be shocking, especially to all you posters that said Terri has man hands, a red chest, fake red hair, let the vampire in, a step monster, pseudo diagnosed; had no knowledge of her personally and had never met, that she looks "creepy" in this picture, her facade is all as fake as her facebook postings and picture, that she "tormented" Kyron, - should I continue? Cause I could ... LOL

Wanna know? - Terri is not gonna face charges, and guess what - as I said, the police blew this case in the first 24 hours because they are incompetent. I said that months ago.

Here's the shocking part, which the police omitted in the last presser - they were singularly focused, and whoever got Kyron is GONE. G O N E.

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll. By the way, Kaine was LIVING with TERRI when she and DeDe got her batphones... which was a term I always hated. So, again Kaine is the naive husband who knows nothing.

What did they have - NOTHING and they still have nothing. If they did there wouldn't have been Grand Jury and subpoenas. Which was going to be empaneled anyway to hear ALL the cases that the police couldn't solve. That happens in every jurisdiction in the country, not just Portland and not just for Kyron. They do that to make a test run and see if there is enough PROSECUTION evidence and the DEFENSE evidence is not presented. It's all one sided. And as I said to Wyks, you can indict a ham sandwich. But, in this case that wasn't even possible. That's because there isn't any evidence and as a matter of fact there is contrary evidence that says that Terri is not involved.

I started feeling badly that so many actually believed anything the police said (which happened only twice) or implied through Kaine and Desire. What kind of police force uses the parents of a missing child as the pseudo spokespersons? That's a first. And an atrocity. Most of us are brought up to believe the police and trust them, and that's where they misused their authority.

It's a shame that so many over looked the time line and placed Terri at two places at once. But what's worse is the police - knowing this weeks or months before any of you - allowed the rumors to continue and spread like wild fire. I guess they were hoping that someone would take justice into their own hands and the police could wash their hands of their own incompetency mess. When a few figured out that Terri couldn't be in two places at once, that's when they decided that Terri invited a monster in. She had to be involved and they were too emotionally invested.

Maybe, just maybe, Terri did it. I don't think she did, but that's because I wasn't singularly focused. I don't know because I wasn't there. But I do know it didn't happen like what has been presented to date. I also think that the police DID uncover additional information that points in another direction but it was too late to backtrack. So, it will be solved in ten years when "independent eyes" bring the closure that so many seek. Why ruin everyone's lives now and kick people off the force? Let that happen in a decade. That's how malfeasance and incompetency is handled these days.

And what about this lil' school of charms. Wouldn't the police try to protect them from future lawsuits (their part of the same small theocracy) - which should have been coming until Kaine said is was a safe school before and safer now. How could he even say that - his kid was stolen for that exact school.

Well, it's a strange lil world in Portland and I hope and pray that Kyron is found, really I do. But, it's gonna take the Hand of God to make this case right, but miracles still happen.

One last thing - if someone screams arrest imminent again, I'll scream.  

Edit to add missing ital. bracket.  MB

Good morning, Monkeys!

In the sentence above that I highlighted in blue, Rob speaks of the timeline putting Terri two places at once.  Does anyone know what the two places at the same time are?

[fatcatlurker]

Puzzler - in response to Rob's two places at one time - Nope I am confused as to what he is talking about?

supposedly the ping on SI and supposedly TH claims she was not there?  Maybe that is it?

[Itaryl Moosee]

I do admit though,
After learning about this case my initial thoughts were that the perp could have been set off by something as simple as perceiving that they had been cut off in traffic.
I don't know why I thought that but it stuck with me. I still have kept my eyes wide open and will continue to take all clues in to consideration.

It never ceases to amaze me what will set someone off and they violently beat or kill someone. Road rage is a scary thing, living in So Ca I know, and you just don't know what may set a person off, you read about it all the time, silly things to you and I perhaps but for some people they just get violent. 

Rage is an emotion that is always present in our emotional repertoire, but that eventually as we age we have more control of.

Just, either caused by disease or biological make-up, for some people that never happens.

NBC had the John Gardner story on Dateline this past weekend, and at the end they showed how rage works with psychopaths like him.

During the sentencing hearing testimonies, JG looked down and grim.

But, when the girl that had hit him on the nose and got away was testifying, at the end, she mockingly asked him, "by the way,  how's your nose?"

All of a sudden JG's whole expression changed.

His lips tensed and got thinner, his eyes focused up and became sorta cross-eyed. He turned to his lawyer and said, "she didn't hit me."

He stirred in his seat as if he was seating over a just-disturbed mound of red-hot fire ants. He said, "she's saying that for publicity."

It was clear he was boiling mad... over a simple tease...

We don't really know what REALLY happened in the KH's case, but many of our theories involve rage and revenge.

If that's the case, the problem in not only KH's case, but in many others, is that some people who become rage killers lead a very normal life and many close relations would swear over a Bible that the suspect would NEVER hurt anyone else.

Of course, in many cases the evidence speaks louder than the well-intended good-willed testimonies.

[fatcatlurker]

article with Kaine's timeline

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Curious...are the teachers and school children on a gag order?  I find it amazing that not one teacher has really come forward.  They are just as silent as Terri.  Was Kaine having an affair or not?  I read statements that it was with a woman named Phylis who worked with him...but they were not verifiable sources.  In regards to Kaine's timeline...is that trustworthy...those are his words.  What has Intel said?  Did he take any breaks?  Did anyone actually see him throughout the day to verify his timeline?  Why are all his coworkers silent?  WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET????  Wow!!!  It really is phenomenal!

Maybe the teachers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation.

If Kaine were having an affair, LE would check for any ties to the Kyron investigation. I think someone from Terri's camp put that info out, so I throw it in with some of their other wild statements.

Intel knows where Kaine was. LE knows where Kaine was. Kaine knows were Kaine was. Kaine's computers can verify some of his timeline. I can only assume the timeline is the same for all.

Maybe his coworkers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation. They were not at the school unless they had a child attending there, so I don't know what they would have to add.

I think it is great that people are not blabbing to the press, usually in order to gain personal attention in the spotlight. If they have anything to say, LE would be happy to listen.

There are several possibilities on what happened to Kyron. Terri has received attention because her published but not verified timeline and actions are questionable, but that does not prove she is guilty of anything. Terri's "friends" have not helped by throwing out speculations and outright lies about others in order to defend Terri.

What the press puts out and what the jury hears in a court case are two different things. The press has been very good about keeping Kyron in the public's eye, and I hope it continues to do so, but I don't need partial leaks and personal speculations to keep the story going.

Great post Grey! 

[Puzzler]

Puzzler - in response to Rob's two places at one time - Nope I am confused as to what he is talking about?

supposedly the ping on SI and supposedly TH claims she was not there?  Maybe that is it?

TY - good thought

[Itaryl Moosee]

Maybe Kaine had an extramarital affair, but... has it been confirmed by any OFFICIAL report?

I mean, no rumors, hearsays, or personal blogs...

I can't recall that it has been confirmed, though there is always the possibility. In cases like this everything goes.

[nicubird]

article with Kaine's timeline

http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html

Curious...are the teachers and school children on a gag order?  I find it amazing that not one teacher has really come forward.  They are just as silent as Terri.  Was Kaine having an affair or not?  I read statements that it was with a woman named Phylis who worked with him...but they were not verifiable sources.  In regards to Kaine's timeline...is that trustworthy...those are his words.  What has Intel said?  Did he take any breaks?  Did anyone actually see him throughout the day to verify his timeline?  Why are all his coworkers silent?  WHY IS EVERYONE SO QUIET????  Wow!!!  It really is phenomenal!

Maybe the teachers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation.

If Kaine were having an affair, LE would check for any ties to the Kyron investigation. I think someone from Terri's camp put that info out, so I throw it in with some of their other wild statements.

Intel knows where Kaine was. LE knows where Kaine was. Kaine knows were Kaine was. Kaine's computers can verify some of his timeline. I can only assume the timeline is the same for all.

Maybe his coworkers have not said anything in order not to compromise the investigation. They were not at the school unless they had a child attending there, so I don't know what they would have to add.

I think it is great that people are not blabbing to the press, usually in order to gain personal attention in the spotlight. If they have anything to say, LE would be happy to listen.

There are several possibilities on what happened to Kyron. Terri has received attention because her published but not verified timeline and actions are questionable, but that does not prove she is guilty of anything. Terri's "friends" have not helped by throwing out speculations and outright lies about others in order to defend Terri.

What the press puts out and what the jury hears in a court case are two different things. The press has been very good about keeping Kyron in the public's eye, and I hope it continues to do so, but I don't need partial leaks and personal speculations to keep the story going.

 

Thank you Grey!

[Kokos Cat]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

Dear Rose,
 
    IMO, there has been so little information forthcoming that sometimes all you have are your instincts. 
    In this case, probably as in most others, this is an important key and not to be overlooked.  Especially in Kyron's case, what else do we have? (see below) 
    Also... I like to think about this:  motive/motivation, and: simplicity.  Every action or statement is motivated by something.
    And, this was a crisis.  There was no time for complexity.  The answer will be the simplest one, IMO.   

FACTS:

We have witness reports.
We have death alerts (uninvestigated by LE)
We have time and place and statements and actions by those involved. 

[Kokos Cat]

I believe it was posted previously, if an employee runs into some legal matters, weither it be personal or criminal, they are to notify Intel's legal dept. immediately.

Hi, MK!

I know what you mean, and I understand that employees may have had corporate policy pounded into their heads.

With all due respect, however, if I couldn't find my son?  I would not be pawing through the handbook to decide what to do next.

   

[Tracygirl]

The Sauvie Island resident that reported seeing a white truck and red mustang with the RDSQRL license driving wildly - could it be that the person who took Kyron contacted Kaine/Terri?

Kaine had the mustang...Terri had the truck.

[Samantha]

I believe it was posted previously, if an employee runs into some legal matters, weither it be personal or criminal, they are to notify Intel's legal dept. immediately.

Hi, MK!

I know what you mean, and I understand that employees may have had corporate policy pounded into their heads.

With all due respect, however, if I couldn't find my son?  I would not be pawing through the handbook to decide what to do next.

   

It could just be known or a suggestion/reminder from his supervisor initiated it.

I work in semi-large software company and we have had similar emails circulate when something happens that puts the company in the public eye. We have had a fellow worker go missing/found dead in a nearby city over a weekend and a very similar (but not as thorough) email circualted.. asking us not to make a comment and that a certain person will handle all media requests. - Granted it wasn't an ongoing investigation and it was deemed accidental from the start. (Drinking and fell into the river)

I think the company wanted a unified position in the media and that random people in various groups that may or may not know the person shouldn't be contacting the media to speak because it isn't their job to speak on behalf of the company as a whole and that it could be misrepresented or misunderstood that 1 persons answers represent the company as a whole.

However.. this is just dealing with the media. It's not like the company or individuals are telling people not to comply with or contact police if they have pertinent information about an individual.