Caylee Marie Anthony #93 1/16/09 - 1/19/09

[trimmonthelake]

I wonder what Casey is doing today?  It is beautiful and sunny here and she cant enjoy that.  Im going shoppingl later, can Casey, nup, she cant.  Im going to the park with Ella, Casey cant go with Caylee.   

She is seeing how many reese cups she can eat before trial date. 

[peanut]

To those of you who have had a suicide, I'm so sorry for you.

But...having experienced a borderline/psycho/sociopath, I would have to agree with Fuzzball. The hell that this person put those around her through was unbelievable. It got to the point where I would pray to God for her to die. Car accident, eating her gun, whatever. I rationalized it by telling God (yeah, right, like He needs to have things explained to Him!) that the world would be a much safer place without her in it. I'm the kind of person who puts "awful things that have happened to me" in a file in my mind. The drawer to that file is locked, and I'm always losing the keys, so I can't (won't) give you details, but suffice it to say that what we went through was awful, and has left scars that will never heal.

Thankfully, this person is out of our sphere now, I don't know if she's dead or alive, but I hope she's dead.

So, I said all this to maybe tone down what Fuzz said.

i could never wish anyone dead just because they put me thru the wringer. i can understand the frustration with dealing with someone with bpd, but i can honestly say that all ive wished for them is some peace and self acceptance.

You are a better person than I. (you may quote me on that). My psycho never had any remorse, guilt, or desire to change. She was truly a bad seed. (Honestly, if someone killed themselves because of the psycho's treatment of them, could you really be so forgiving? I'm thinking that even if Sister Marie Ethel knew of this person and her actions, even Sister couldn't have forgiven her and Sister could forgive A LOT!)

well i was talking about bpd. i have a hard time sometimes with terms like 'psycho' because i dont know if the person is actually talking about a true psychopath or is using the slang derivative.

[Steel Monkey]

Borderline and sociopathy are not the same.  However, the poster seemed frustrated to me and perhaps felt that borderlines were being accused of truly anti-social or pyschopathic behaviors.  Perhaps the poster herself is borderline or has a loved one who is borderline.  Fear of abandonment can cause people to do some crazy things, but she is right in that borderlines are usually going to take it out on themselves not others.  I don't know anyone who would wish that a relative, even a very difficult or abusive one, would commit suicide.  But perhaps a borderline would think that others would want to be rid of him/her for good.

We just never know what trouble and heartaches people carry around with them every day.  Some handle those pains better than others.  But they take their toll, no matter what, and we can easily step on toes or hurt feelings without meaning to.

In the situation with the Anthonys, I think the problem comes in Cindy's absolute refusal to admit any problem at all with Casey now.  In the past she has told people that Casey was a sociopath and chronic liar.  Now she acts as if Casey were totally normal.  She denies any type of mental or emotional issues with Casey, and yet she says in her online post that Casey was jealous enough to take Caylee away and not allow Cindy to see Caylee or even talk to her.  Is that normal?  Her daughter did not report Caylee missing and yet Cindy says there are "reasons" for that. 

If Cindy admitted that her daughter had had problems for a long time, that they were unable to get her to seek help, that they feared for Caylee's safety but did not know what actions to take, that they walked on egg shells trying to keep Casey calm and happy...they would get lots of sympathy.  But when she says that everything was okay, people know that is a lie.

As usual Hudsunn, your post is not only timely, but spot on!

[Leroy]

I wonder what Casey is doing today?  It is beautiful and sunny here and she cant enjoy that.  Im going shoppingl later, can Casey, nup, she cant.  Im going to the park with Ella, Casey cant go with Caylee.   

She is seeing how many reese cups she can eat before trial date. 

 

[Garden Gnome]

Ok, back to Caylee and the crazy Anthony family.....

Did anyone save a list of the motions that Baez brought before the court on, let's see, a week ago Thursday?  If we had the list of motions, we could probably guess what will drop this week because didn't they get 15 days to "get her done"?

[always 1]

I wonder what Casey is doing today?  It is beautiful and sunny here and she cant enjoy that.  Im going shoppingl later, can Casey, nup, she cant.  Im going to the park with Ella, Casey cant go with Caylee.   

She is seeing how many reese cups she can eat before trial date. 

   

[Leroy]

My husband committed suicide.  He sat in the living room, right in front of me, at 2:30 in the morning, loading a gun.  then he got up, walked out the front door, braced the butt of the gun against a tree and the barrel against his temple and fired.

I'm leaving now.

Oh dear - I am soooo sorry Jane .

[darla]

To those of you who have had a suicide, I'm so sorry for you.

But...having experienced a borderline/psycho/sociopath, I would have to agree with Fuzzball. The hell that this person put those around her through was unbelievable. It got to the point where I would pray to God for her to die. Car accident, eating her gun, whatever. I rationalized it by telling God (yeah, right, like He needs to have things explained to Him!) that the world would be a much safer place without her in it. I'm the kind of person who puts "awful things that have happened to me" in a file in my mind. The drawer to that file is locked, and I'm always losing the keys, so I can't (won't) give you details, but suffice it to say that what we went through was awful, and has left scars that will never heal.

Thankfully, this person is out of our sphere now, I don't know if she's dead or alive, but I hope she's dead.

So, I said all this to maybe tone down what Fuzz said.

i could never wish anyone dead just because they put me thru the wringer. i can understand the frustration with dealing with someone with bpd, but i can honestly say that all ive wished for them is some peace and self acceptance.

You are a better person than I. (you may quote me on that). My psycho never had any remorse, guilt, or desire to change. She was truly a bad seed. (Honestly, if someone killed themselves because of the psycho's treatment of them, could you really be so forgiving? I'm thinking that even if Sister Marie Ethel knew of this person and her actions, even Sister couldn't have forgiven her and Sister could forgive A LOT!)

I can understand where you are coming from....until you have walked in those shoes,you don't know what you would do. My heart breaks for all those who have lost a loved one or friend to suicide. IMO there is a huge difference between the ones who feel they have no other choice but suicide and someone like Casey. She only cares about three people.....ME, MYSELF,and I. She loves herself to much to ever think of hurting herself. God Bless all of you who haved lost ones you love. Will keep you in my prayers.

[Tevye]

To those of you who have had a suicide, I'm so sorry for you.

But...having experienced a borderline/psycho/sociopath, I would have to agree with Fuzzball. The hell that this person put those around her through was unbelievable. It got to the point where I would pray to God for her to die. Car accident, eating her gun, whatever. I rationalized it by telling God (yeah, right, like He needs to have things explained to Him!) that the world would be a much safer place without her in it. I'm the kind of person who puts "awful things that have happened to me" in a file in my mind. The drawer to that file is locked, and I'm always losing the keys, so I can't (won't) give you details, but suffice it to say that what we went through was awful, and has left scars that will never heal.

Thankfully, this person is out of our sphere now, I don't know if she's dead or alive, but I hope she's dead.

So, I said all this to maybe tone down what Fuzz said.

i could never wish anyone dead just because they put me thru the wringer. i can understand the frustration with dealing with someone with bpd, but i can honestly say that all ive wished for them is some peace and self acceptance.

You are a better person than I. (you may quote me on that). My psycho never had any remorse, guilt, or desire to change. She was truly a bad seed. (Honestly, if someone killed themselves because of the psycho's treatment of them, could you really be so forgiving? I'm thinking that even if Sister Marie Ethel knew of this person and her actions, even Sister couldn't have forgiven her and Sister could forgive A LOT!)

well i was talking about bpd. i have a hard time sometimes with terms like 'psycho' because i dont know if the person is actually talking about a true psychopath or is using the slang derivative.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Psychopath is the actual term to be used in this case. A psychopath who was so twisted and demented and manipulative, she was the direct cause of another's suicide. The suicide was depressed, and the psycho used that depression...

And this is such an unpleasant topic! I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, but I wanted you all to see all sides of the issue. I wanted you to know that psychopaths don't just kill with guns and drugs...they can use their illness to exacerbate other's illnesses...to a horrible end.

[always 1]

Borderline and sociopathy are not the same.  However, the poster seemed frustrated to me and perhaps felt that borderlines were being accused of truly anti-social or pyschopathic behaviors.  Perhaps the poster herself is borderline or has a loved one who is borderline.  Fear of abandonment can cause people to do some crazy things, but she is right in that borderlines are usually going to take it out on themselves not others.  I don't know anyone who would wish that a relative, even a very difficult or abusive one, would commit suicide.  But perhaps a borderline would think that others would want to be rid of him/her for good.

We just never know what trouble and heartaches people carry around with them every day.  Some handle those pains better than others.  But they take their toll, no matter what, and we can easily step on toes or hurt feelings without meaning to.

In the situation with the Anthonys, I think the problem comes in Cindy's absolute refusal to admit any problem at all with Casey now.  In the past she has told people that Casey was a sociopath and chronic liar.  Now she acts as if Casey were totally normal.  She denies any type of mental or emotional issues with Casey, and yet she says in her online post that Casey was jealous enough to take Caylee away and not allow Cindy to see Caylee or even talk to her.  Is that normal?  Her daughter did not report Caylee missing and yet Cindy says there are "reasons" for that. 

If Cindy admitted that her daughter had had problems for a long time, that they were unable to get her to seek help, that they feared for Caylee's safety but did not know what actions to take, that they walked on egg shells trying to keep Casey calm and happy...they would get lots of sympathy.  But when she says that everything was okay, people know that is a lie.

As usual Hudsunn, your post is not only timely, but spot on!

This is true (but I gave you a whole row of hearts)

[Sassycat]

TRIMM -   Hugs.     

[trimmonthelake]

TRIMM -   Hugs.     

Thanks.It's all good. 
I need a document fix....NOW.   

[crazybabyborg]

Heartfelt sympathy, honest, to all who have been left suffering from the tragedy of suicide.

Maybe we can use this to apply to some understanding of the Anthony dynamics. I've just had a refresher with the "shrink" in the clinic, and was trying to gain a bit of understanding as it would apply to Casey.

Personality disorders are on a continuim. On one extreme end is total dependency, and on the other extreme end is sociopathy or anti social. Borderline personality is toward the sociopathy but is actually named because it borders "normal" range. There are varying degrees of borderline depending where someone falls on the continuim.

Borderline Personalities have a sense of the rules, but don't have the ability to apply them to self. They use triangulation, and manipulation to interact with others and don't have the ability to directly interact. You'll typically find passive aggresive behavior as well. Someone with Borderline Personality may steal from a friend, but will rationalize the friend owed it to them. Borderline personalities will drive those who are around them crazy......please forgive the slang, but they are very, very, difficult to live with.

Sociopaths have a sense of entitlement and no sense of the rules. They simply think that rules do not apply to them. A sociopath would steal and rather than thinking the friend owes them, simply feels entitled to take because they want. There is no need to rationalize why they stole, because they are entitled to whatever they want. A sociopath is much easier to live with UNLESS the sociopath is directed AT YOU. Often serial killers are viewed as perfectly normal by family and friends and neighbors because their sociopathy was not directed at them.

Does that make sense?? I'm going to ask for a proof read before I post this............

[klaasend]

Courtesy - Seemeatthebeach

[Fuzzball]

Hi Ms Sam, welcome to the cage! 

hello all!!!im new to the post.i enjoy reading all the post here,all very good ones!!!

Welcome ncbelle54 

Greetings All Monkeys!

Has anyone had any new word about this??

Quote:
Breaking: Court documents just handed over to the defense in the Caylee murder case will be released any moment now.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

Why, why, WHY do people keep trying to use sociopath and borderline interchangeably? They're nothing at all alike! Borderlines aren't consciousless killers, they're terrified of abandonment and have huge self-esteem issues. A Borderline in Casey's shoes wouldn't have taken Caylee and killed her, she'd have left Caylee with Cindy and killed herself, or gone on a bender.  Just because you get tired of someone's suicide attempts or pity parties doesn't mean they're evil or a killer! It really, really, bothers me.

Borderlines need re-parenting and DBT.  They feel guilt, shame, and remorse, and can learn to take responsibility. Sociopaths don't respond to that kind of treatment at all--they're just missing a piece. They don't feel embarrassment or guilt or even sorrow. The best they can do is mimic.

I can't stand it when people try to call Casey a "Borderline" personality. Cindy might be a Borderline. Lee might be. But not Casey. I understand that everyone hates their Borderline relatives and can't wait for them person to actually commit suicide instead of just making all those failed attempts or threats, all those crazy scenes that make the feared abandonment a certainty. But being a pain in the ass drama queen isn't the same thing as being a cold-blooded killer.

   Please tell me I read this wrong     

You didn't read that wrong.  I didn't read it wrong either.

Hoping for someone to actually end there life is a scarey thought process in its own.  Ive lost family and friends to suicide and I wished I could of saved them from the pain.

Mountainmom, I am deeply sorry for your loss. Really and truly. I don't know if any of your departed family and friends were borderlines, or how much contact you had with them before they passed.  I have talked to many people who were complete wrecks after someone close to them committed suicide, and my heart really does go out to them.

But I'm referring specifically to Borderlines. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who was concerned about a suicidal friend, lover, sibling, etc...before the suicide. I'm not sure why it is, but most peoples' first response to a someone wanting to die, is to get mad at them, or ridicule them. People never say, "I worry that my friend might actually commit suicide." They say, " I have a friend who's always threatening suicide, she's such a drama queen." And they go on to describe how much this person's depression or craziness bothers them and and solicit support and sympathy for ending the friendship, which of course they get. 

I know a girl who cut her wrists when she was 14. her mother's response was to tell her to slash vertically, not horizontally, and not to do it in the house because she didn't want to have to clean up the mess. That was the entire extent of the family's concern in that case.  The father didn't even notice. They didn't seek therapy until 5 years later, when the younger sister attempted suicide with pills, necessitating a trip to the hospital.

I've heard a lot of people complain, especially siblings and lovers, about the suicidal behavior of borderlines, and it's always about how the borderline is guilt-tripping and manipulating them by swallowing pills or cutting, and a lot of complaints also focus on how the borderline person stopped doing it and cheered up fast later, so they must not really have felt that bad in the first place. 

Nobody actually says "hurry up and do it already." But when the anger and resentment mount higher each time the borderline recovers, that's what they read between the lines. It's natural to distance from them, so this dynamic between the borderline and "loved ones" is pretty universal.

[Leroy]

I do not how to bring posts foward from a locked thread but our monkey friend Milardi  posted this not too long ago. I for one loved it.  Thanks Milardi!

Milardie said:  On the lighter side I believe some monkey was talking about KC and the shackle shuffle. Here's a little tune I made up, you might get a kick out of:

Here's a little dance
You"ll have to learn if you"re an "Ant"
It's called the Shuffle
The Shackle Shuffle

You're gonna be in jail
Hair all greasy, What's that smell?
You need the Shuffle
The Shackle Shuffle

You ate up the jerky and finished up the chips
Your butt is gettin bigger and your face is full of Zits
So learn the Shuffle
The Shackle Shuffle

C   Well they slap on the cuffs
H   You do a little twist
O   Ya hear the jangle of the chains
R   and you shake your big ole hips
U   You got the Shuffle
S   The Shackle Shuffle

[KCJackie]

Did I hear there will be a document dump today?

[peanut]

To those of you who have had a suicide, I'm so sorry for you.

But...having experienced a borderline/psycho/sociopath, I would have to agree with Fuzzball. The hell that this person put those around her through was unbelievable. It got to the point where I would pray to God for her to die. Car accident, eating her gun, whatever. I rationalized it by telling God (yeah, right, like He needs to have things explained to Him!) that the world would be a much safer place without her in it. I'm the kind of person who puts "awful things that have happened to me" in a file in my mind. The drawer to that file is locked, and I'm always losing the keys, so I can't (won't) give you details, but suffice it to say that what we went through was awful, and has left scars that will never heal.

Thankfully, this person is out of our sphere now, I don't know if she's dead or alive, but I hope she's dead.

So, I said all this to maybe tone down what Fuzz said.

i could never wish anyone dead just because they put me thru the wringer. i can understand the frustration with dealing with someone with bpd, but i can honestly say that all ive wished for them is some peace and self acceptance.

You are a better person than I. (you may quote me on that). My psycho never had any remorse, guilt, or desire to change. She was truly a bad seed. (Honestly, if someone killed themselves because of the psycho's treatment of them, could you really be so forgiving? I'm thinking that even if Sister Marie Ethel knew of this person and her actions, even Sister couldn't have forgiven her and Sister could forgive A LOT!)

well i was talking about bpd. i have a hard time sometimes with terms like 'psycho' because i dont know if the person is actually talking about a true psychopath or is using the slang derivative.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Psychopath is the actual term to be used in this case. A psychopath who was so twisted and demented and manipulative, she was the direct cause of another's suicide. The suicide was depressed, and the psycho used that depression...

And this is such an unpleasant topic! I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, but I wanted you all to see all sides of the issue. I wanted you to know that psychopaths don't just kill with guns and drugs...they can use their illness to exacerbate other's illnesses...to a horrible end.

im so very sorry. you didnt offend me, i just get frustrated when borderline gets bandied about as if its interchangable with antisocial personality disorder. thats why i wanted clarification as to which you were referring to. i do agree psychopaths/sociopaths will use whatever means necessary to achieve their end goals.

[Leroy]

Did I hear there will be a document dump today?

Scared Monkeys is open for business today but the couny offices are closed due to the holiday so we are not too sure.

[pixiecat]

I wonder what Casey is doing today?  It is beautiful and sunny here and she cant enjoy that.  Im going shoppingl later, can Casey, nup, she cant.  Im going to the park with Ella, Casey cant go with Caylee.   

She is seeing how many reese cups she can eat before trial date. 

I just saw something on the news about all of the salmonella-tainted peanut butter.  Hope poor Casey's cherished snack food is salmonella-free (or not )!